The cost of heating the apartment with air conditioning is 40m2

Hello,
I live in an apartment of about 40m ^ 2 which is located in the attic. The house is quite old now. The apartment has "slants" which are probably suprema + some unknown type of insulation (some chips and dust, does anyone know this type of insulation?) + 10-15 cm of mineral wool + metal roofing tile.
+ on one side, the house wall is insulated with polystyrene, but probably 5 cm, so it probably won't do much .

The heating is a 6kW "goat" fireplace, which I am not too happy about because it is quite dusty when choosing the ash.
After firing up, even in the coldest frost, you can easily beat the temperature up to 25 degrees in the apartment, but the problem is that when it is on fire it is warm and in the morning or until it starts to burn, the temperature likes to drop to 18 degrees or even to 16 degrees in frost.
If no one is at home, you know that you need to light up immediately after entering. :)

I would also like to add that the cold air supply is located on the opposite side of the fireplace and I think that this is the main reason for the temperature drop in the apartment overnight, when the stove has already expired and the hot chimney draws warm air from the apartment ...

Recently I found out about the possibility of heating with air conditioning-heat pump. I have natural gas supplied, but I do not have a central heating installation, so I think that the gas falls off precisely because the cost of installing such a furnace will exceed the cost of several years of heating up with an ordinary farelli. :]

I would like it to be relatively cheap and comfortable.
I have an idea to heat with a goat only when the frosts are the greatest, and when the temperature is not that much negative (for almost most of the winter), heat it with air conditioning.
I would like to know what costs I could expect ... I think that it would also be a good solution to put a thick layer of mineral wool above me in the attic.

Currently, I use about 170kWh at home per month, including water heating with a 50L boiler. The price per kWh is about 0.70 PLN

Look for a gas heater that throws through the wall. There are such on the market. The gas is burned in a wall-hung radiator, and the combustion air and exhaust gases are led through the wall through one pipe. We had one in the store. No water, etc. If you freeze the apartment, nothing will happen and you have a stove in the radiator. And it is enough to change the nozzle in it to adapt it to the natural gas in the cylinder.
I had air conditioning heating in a 30m? workshop. From October to March, it was PLN 1,500 with lighting and an electronic workshop (2 people). The temperatures then briefly dropped to -20 ° C. From what I remember, the air-conditioning systems heat some at almost -10 ° C outside, and others work to about -20 ° C.

You need a device that will provide you with 5-6 kW of heat. You also need to look at the SCOP of the selected device and you will already know how much electricity it will consume on average, eg. here for LG they report 3.4. So 5kW: 3.4 = 1.47 1.47 * 1h = 1.47kWh = 0.88 PLN

Coremeil wrote:

Hello,
I live in an apartment of about 40m ^ 2 which is located in the attic. The house is quite old now. The apartment has "slants" which are probably suprema + some unknown type of insulation (some chips and dust, does anyone know this type of insulation?) + 10-15 cm of mineral wool + metal roofing tile.

Install a 2-4kW inverter split.
If you want and have which way to run the sewers, then the sewer climate will be better. Split heats up the entire surface without any problems.

And what kind of kWh consumption per month can I count on?

Three times smaller than you would heat with oil heaters.
Calculate yourself at Ciepowlasciwe.pl

Within 900 kWh per heating season.

Will someone recommend a model of air conditioning? I have read a lot about Gree Lomo Luxury but users often write that this air conditioning does not come down with a power consumption below 400W and instead of working all the time with a low power consumption, it turns off and on ...

Take any branded one. Gree is cheap Chinese and I wouldn't buy it.
Any split from a recognized brand will be good. Fujitsu, Fuji, LG, Samsung, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Daikin and more.
Pay attention to the wide modulation of operation, minimum power input, inverter, high COP and EER and seasonal values.

I bought a 3.5kW Gree Change and have had it installed for 5 months. Apartment in the attic, attic insulated with mineral wool, but only 10cm.
As soon as the temperature started to drop below 20 degrees at home, I fired it at 21 degrees to 22 degrees (as needed) and so far burned about 70kWh. When there were severe frosts recently, I happened to light the fireplace in addition to heat it up to about 23-24 degrees. Previously, the temperature dropped to 17-18 degrees and in order to warm up the apartment, you had to throw a little into the fireplace. Now, at 20 degrees in the apartment, it is enough to throw it into the fireplace once and it is hot. During this period of heating up, the climate of the trees did nothing. So far I am satisfied. :]
I just hit that when I set up the air conditioning, there was a lot of heat and it was easy to get even 18 degrees at home. I have not tried more and I will not try it because after going outside and 35 degrees you are immediately sick. :P

And what's interesting - the volume. Before the assembly, I thought that it would be whirring and humming, but in fact you can only hear a slight hum of air as the fan is spinning and a slight squeak when the compressor is running. The device is mounted about 2 meters from the ground level.

Nice, but why this fireplace? For the climate? OKAY.
For savings? No sense.

Let me know when you dare to heat only with an air conditioner for the whole month. Give it a try.
Set the temperature higher than 22 ° C. I suggest 24-27 ° C and the fan has a max.

Why 24-27?
I have it set to 21 degrees and in various places around the house the temperature is almost everywhere around 20.4 degrees.
It turns on when it wants to and consumes relatively little electricity at positive temperatures. It turns on every hour, two for a while and then turns off.
The situation changes when the temperature drops below 0. At -6 I noticed that I was trying to work all the time but with low power consumption.
@Jan_Werbinski you write that for savings, the fireplace does not make sense and I am curious if you would heat the air conditioning when the temperature drops to -20 degrees.
Probably SCOP will drop a lot and heating will cease to be profitable.

I also had a situation once, that it was freezing at night and the house got chilly in the morning. So I turned on the heat. After 2 minutes the electricity disappeared and that was what I got from the heating. Fortunately, only for an hour.
And what if the electricity was not available for a few days, as it sometimes happens somewhere outside the cities?

@Coremeil, I also installed an LG 3.5kW inverter this spring. The apartment can be said to be identical (attic, 40m?, 15cm of wool under the roof, roofing felt (comprehensive roof renovation this year). DHW is also a 50l boiler. So far I do not know how to use energy. PLN 50, except that I have 2 tariffs and I tried to use the 15-17 hours to cool the apartment to the maximum, then the split indicated consumption of 400-500W to maintain the temperature. As for heating, I have similar observations. I need to heat only when the outside temperature is maintained temperature is below + 7 ° C and the efficiency is then sensational. When the energy consumption is indicated at 700-800W, the feeling of heat is as if the construction heater is working with 3.5kW. The stairs start below -5 ° C. But the assumption is that heating is I have diversified (fireplace stove, oil heaters + air conditioner). You can get firewood for free - it only has the disadvantage that you do not want to walk - you have to go for it and bring it to the high, 4 floor. But it is a huge saving on heating. So far, I have not turned on the radiators because there was no need. At the end of December, I expect an energy bill and then I can draw some conclusions.

@teskot - what temperature do you maintain? Do you have the boiler turned on 24h / 7? I turn it on only when water is needed, i.e. when it runs out and it is already lukewarm But this boiler will burn out anyway ...

I have a single-zone tariff and I wonder if it is worth switching to a double-tariff. My air conditioner and boiler smoke the most. I have the air conditioner connected to a meter that shows me the current consumption.

Coremeil wrote:

And what kind of kWh consumption per month can I count on?

In practice, heating with air conditioning will cost you about 2-3 times less than if you heated with electricity, because this is the profit on pumping heat.
Contrary to appearances, it is not so cheap. Electricity for heating purposes is even 2-3 times cheaper and so is still an expensive heating energy.

Regards!

@Coremeil; I'm definitely cold-loving, 20 ° C is a thermal comfort for me. In practice, my temperature ranges from 20-22 ° C. The boiler heats the water only in the 2nd tariff (I use G12w, so from Friday 22 to 6 Monday it is also cheaper). The boiler turns on at 5:30 in the morning and heats up until 6:00 so that there is enough hot water for the morning toilet. Then, in the 2nd tariff between 13 and 15 in winter and between 15 and 17 in summer, it heats up to full, so that when you come back from work you will have hot water. Then it turns on at 10 pm and heats for an hour. Thus, it consumes no more than 5.5 kWh per day. On weekends, these times vary due to the different rhythm of the day. I have energy at 0.37 PLN in the 2nd tariff and 65 PLN in the 1st tariff, taking into account transmission costs. The dishwasher only works at night, the washing machine only at weekends. More cooking (induction hob) on weekends; during the week, just something to quickly or to heat previously prepared things. In summer I have about 70% of consumption in the "night" tariff, in winter about 90%. This data was before the air conditioner was installed.

Coremeil wrote:

curious if you would heat the climate when the temperature drops to -20 degrees.
Probably SCOP will drop a lot and heating will cease to be profitable.

And what if the electricity was not available for a few days, as it sometimes happens somewhere outside the cities?

Yes, I would be warm. Unfortunately, last winter it only fell to -14. The next time it will be -20 and -30, the air conditioning will work non-stop. The COP at -15 is probably slightly less than 2.
The record break in the supply of energy is less than two days. It has never been longer. I have an aggregate for such situations.

I have a 3.5kW 40m2 in the attic and I paid PLN 700 for 5 months in the last heating season

Nice result, write something more, what is the model, what temperature did you maintain, worked all the time set to some temperature ?? Is on / off.

LG Artcool Mirror AM12BP.NSJ / AM12BP.UA3
On in the fall, off in the spring.
Temperature set depending on the outside temperature 23-27
As I already had the air conditioner selected, I calculated how much I would pay for heating, after installing the device, I connected it through the energy meter and the costs I incur are adequate to what I calculated.
I will add that I have a 3-tariff meter and the night tariff is the cheapest, but how to average it, I would not pay much more.
I would like to add that even if I paid PLN 1000, it is equal to 1 ton of coal which is enough for a month or 2 (I do not know because I did not use coal), and it is time to cover the stove and keep an eye on it.
In the android application, I check what temperature I have at home and control myself as I want.
I have installed similar models, only white ones, for many customers who did not believe and were quite skeptical about what I say, today they are delighted.

It's cold today, I am testing its performance, the air conditioning was on before 5:00 and it was around 19 degrees in the house. All day, set to 22 degrees in the afternoon, I emphasized 26 degrees and it works so far. It turns itself off and on - there are also defrosts. In the next room I am currently at 23.8 degrees and the temperature is slowly rising all the time. 7kWh of electricity is used for 13 hours and it is warm in the house. 40m ^ 2 in the attic. Slant walls and only 10cm of wool on the slants - so no madness with insulation.

I think that if I kept this temperature at home on a daily basis, the consumption would be lower. In my opinion, unfortunately it is too warm for sleeping and a temperature of 20 degrees is enough for me. (22 degrees on the air conditioning, but it is known that it is warmer under the ceiling).

Is that a lot? Considering that the control is done by pressing buttons on the remote control, it seems cheap.

You have similar conditions and wear similar to Me.
It is not expensive.
Calculate how much you will get in about half a year when you need to heat, compare with the price of a ton of coal and think about how much work there is when heating with a stove.

@ young2066 - do you have it on all the time?
As I already wrote, I have a goat-type fireplace in my apartment, so if I bring a few sticks from the yard and light it up, it doesn't take a lot of work :)

However, for me, the air conditioning for heating is suitable, but not necessarily for heating, because the costs will go up significantly. Although, if someone insists - he can do it. People who have a well-insulated house and do not like too high temperature in the house will certainly be more satisfied with heating with an air conditioner. If someone wants to have 24 degrees at home all the time, the only sensible way is to turn on the air conditioner at the beginning of the season, let him heat the apartment and leave it there.
Let's assume that the air conditioner maintains the temperature of 20-22 degrees in the house - it's ok. It will turn on once in a while and will not bother you at all. But if someone wants to be warmer for the evening, by increasing the temperature by a few degrees up, the air conditioning must initially blow harder and louder to heat the room to the desired temperature ... And consumption goes up a lot.

I have been posting statistics on the electricity consumption of my air conditioner since the beginning of December. In the evening, I start the timer so that it starts heating in the morning. Until then, the temperature will not drop too much so that in the morning it warms up the apartment to about 21 degrees ... In the morning I am warm and then, depending on the temperature, I either work until the evening or sometimes I turn it off when it is warm because, for example, the sun is shining and it happens to me to ventilate the apartment and then restart it to heat .. Today it pulled a lot more because I had set it to 26 degrees at home for the rehearsal.
As you can see, the power consumption is not too high, but you have to take into account that so far winter is not too cold.

When the air conditioner in the house maintains the temperature, it is enough to light the fireplace, it is really warm in a moment.

Last year I had such temperature fluctuations that in the evening when I lit the fire I had 24 degrees and in the morning the temperature dropped to 18 I think it was because of the chilled walls. In addition, it is more difficult to heat an apartment with a fireplace from a temperature of 18 degrees than 21 degrees.

As you can see, electricity consumption is calculated for the standard tariff, i.e. PLN 0.59 per kWh. Costs are low and the trees are not burned too much.

I have a question, where do you measure the temperature in the rooms?

I am in the next room about 1 meter from the floor level. By the window.

Today the air conditioning was running from around 4:30 in the morning. Outside, 1-3 degrees, and so far a setting of 24-25 degrees. There was a moment when I turned off for half an hour and opened the window because it was warm. Less than 4kWh consumed so far. As a bomb for me, although recently I noticed that when the night frost freezes, the power consumption is about 80W, even when the air conditioning is not blowing. I suspect it's compressor heating ...

I just got a bill for the electricity used in the last 2 months. It is based on 650kWh, which is PLN 311. In the same period of last year, I used 977kWh for which I paid over PLN 410. Of course, you should compare the temperatures from last year with those this year. The fact remains, however, that I now smoke in a stove less often, and use electric heating more often (now in the form of air conditioning). To sum up, I am very pleased with this investment, especially in the summer, when the advantages of air conditioning cannot be overestimated for me.

Last year, I used about 150 KW per month while heating with air conditioning.

young2066 nothing but envy your heating system. I pay almost that much a month for electricity.

And we already have on January 2, 23:20. From the beginning of the year, the climate is running all the time. Today it's frozen and some snow has fallen. Currently 0.6 degrees out. At present, 15.89kWh is consumed, i.e. about PLN 940 for 2 days.
Setting at night to 20 degrees and 24-25 during the day which is warm and certainly not sparingly
It works almost all the time at this outside temperature. Only when it is set to 20 degrees at night, it turns off and on at night to heat up. With such daily consumption at 0 degrees per month, I would use about 238kWh, which is about 140 PLN per month. And nobody will say 24 degrees is cold. :)

On the downside, the only thing that can annoy you is the air movement in the apartment. Especially in a room with air conditioning and the need to keep the door to adjacent rooms open so that the air can mix and be warm there as well. On the other side there is also a big plus because in summer we press the button and instead of heating we have cooling.