Electric shepherd - how to do?

Hello! I need to build an electric shepherd dog that notoriously jumps the fence .

I would like to ask you for help in building something like this on the simplest possible elements. One of my requirements is that it should run on a 12v (car) battery.

From what I have already read and understood, some elements will already be at home. Like for example (high voltage coil from the car, capacitors, etc.) But unfortunately I do not know anything about the module (which was most often called 555). Can it be replaced with another one that I find in a power supply?

Sorry for my little knowledge as an electronics engineer. If someone could explain it to me in a simple way, I would be grateful.

Regards Kacper.

__FlyMan__ wrote:

But unfortunately I don't know anything about the module (which was most often called 555).

It is not a module, but a layout, details here

__FlyMan__ wrote:

Can it be replaced with another one that I find in a power supply?

I don't think so.

The rest here.

Here is a diagram of a "simple" circuit without this "555 module". The first transformer should be cup type, but on the core from the impulse power supply it should also work. If the dog is kicking too much, you can slightly reduce the condenser in the red circle.

If you turn up the parameters of this converter, it will work.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3218159.html
Just do not install capacitors and increase the frequency, it will work for sure because I tested.

Here, on the Electrode, there was once a description of an energizer powered by 12V DC with the use of a HV coil.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2000157.html

__FlyMan__ wrote:

electric shepherd dog

Apart from the electric / electronic aspects, this device is called trainer .

Thank you very much for your answer!

Rezystor240 wrote:

If you turn up the parameters of this converter, it will work.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3218159.html
Just do not install capacitors and increase the frequency, it will work for sure because I tested.

I liked your answer because of its simplicity, and also because it uses elements from the ATX power supply. Is there a chance that everything that was used in this device can be found there?

__FlyMan__ wrote:

Is there a chance that everything that was used in this device can be found there?

Of course it is, although the NE555 I am not sure.
But this is not a problem, this scalak costs PLN 1

Added after 5 [minutes]:

If you would like to buy all the elements, the cost will not exceed PLN 10, including the universal plate.

You can also make a shepherd without electronics. I saw such a description in the old Young Technician (from 1956). I am giving the link as a curiosity.
http://mlodytechnik.pl/files/fkk/56-mt-03-ogrodz_elektryczne.pdf

The question is how often the WN impulses should be - if they will be too rare, the dog will miss the impulse and will not notice such a shepherd ...

zybex wrote:

the old Young Technician

Nice combination, old but young and the system, although old, is really spring and probably "mowing" the electronics with the simplicity of frequency regulation, please tighten the bolt at the anchor (P) and "the wardrobe plays"

Rather, the adjustment with this screw will change the magnitude of the pulses - the force with which the coil must attract the anchor in order to interrupt the current flow depends on it. The time until the next pulse depends on the springiness of the razor blade which acts as a spring to return the anchor. The question is how much energy it consumes - I do not know if these 100Ah cells are available for purchase today, and if so, they are probably expensive. Therefore, it is better to think about a system that will do the same with less energy - unless the system will be powered from the mains.

_jta_ wrote:

The time until the next pulse depends on the elasticity of the razor blades

yes, except that this value is constant but the screw pressure can be changed and then the pitch and frequency will change. The layout is very simple, you can check it, I did it half a century ago.

Oh! If this pooch knew how many problems there were with this trainer, he would stop jumping over the fence out of pure respect for his master.

You can change the point of attachment of the razor blade or the weight of the anchor and thus change the frequency.

And can't you just use a rectifier? Won't it get easier 12-20V AC

Szymon7507 wrote:

And can't you just use a rectifier? Won't it get easier 12-20V AC

Too little tension. It will not kick

Well, give more, but at 40 ~ it is said that it can kill a cow
So for a dog I would give up to 20, maybe 25V ~

The voltage in the shepherd must be at least 2000V. See in this primitive solution from 1956 it was 5000V. The important thing is that it is a very short-lived impulse that is effective in deterring but not killing.

I was fixing this shepherd a long time ago. It was a solid system that worked confidently. Unfortunately, I do not have the transformer data.

Looking at the parameters of the elements, it can be deduced that the first transformer increases the voltage from 24V to 150-200V. The second transformer can be ignition coil or primary 60-80w, secondary if possible approx. 1000-2000 tickets But in order not to kill the dog, because that's not the point, a few hundred are enough.

You need high voltage - 10kV, or better - but the pulse energy as low as possible, because it is too high and costs money if the pulse is repeated often, and it can be dangerous. You need a transformer with a large ratio (eg 1: 500) and small capacities. Or maybe a 10-15kV DC generator with low current efficiency (it is only supposed to maintain the charge by delivering the charge that escapes through the insulation)? This will allow much less energy consumption, and will have a better effect, because touching it will always cause the spark to jump. Electric cattle herders gave an impulse every second, but touching the fence by a dog may be less than a tenth of a second - so the dog will hit the impulse once every dozen attempts to jump and will not quickly associate the electric discharge with the fence.

At high voltage and low charge, the heat from the spark is primarily felt as a prick, other effects of the current flow are difficult to see. A capacity of a few meters of wire at a voltage of 10kV will give enough spark energy to hurt a lot and at the same time is not a threat, except for: (1) people with a pacemaker (hang warning signs), and (2) a spark hitting the cornea of the eye ( may result in scarring and severe visual impairment).

How to control such a high voltage to recharge it at the right moment?

You might think of using an electroscope, but this is a bit complicated - you have to read optically.

__FlyMan__ wrote:

I need to build an electric shepherd dog that notoriously jumps the fence

__FlyMan__ wrote:

help with building something like this on the simplest possible elements.

Exactly ...... It was supposed to be simple and it got complicated .... Maybe it would be easier to raise this fence a bit and that's it?
Besides, how old is this dog? Having several of them, I know that with age they experience such excesses. Our four-legged friends are aging faster than we think ...

Waldemar z Kaszub wrote:

__FlyMan__ wrote:

I need to build an electric shepherd dog that notoriously jumps the fence

__FlyMan__ wrote:

help with building something like this on the simplest possible elements.

Exactly ...... It was supposed to be simple and it got complicated .... Maybe it would be easier to raise this fence a bit and that's it?
Besides, how old is this dog? Having several of them, I know that with age they experience such excesses. Our four-legged friends are aging faster than we think ...

He is 6 years old ... a Siberian who can climb anything.

Waldemar z Kaszub wrote:

__FlyMan__ wrote:

I need to build an electric shepherd dog that notoriously jumps the fence

__FlyMan__ wrote:

help with building something like this on the simplest possible elements.

Exactly ...... It was supposed to be simple and it got complicated .... Maybe it would be easier to raise this fence a bit and that's it?
Besides, how old is this dog? Having several of them, I know that with age they experience such excesses. Our four-legged friends are aging faster than we think ...

He is 6 years old ... a Siberian who can climb anything.

__FlyMan__ wrote:

A Siberian who can climb anything.

If, for example, it walks along the fence mesh like a cat, it is really a problem. But knowing the nature of the dog, I will write you this:
When you "cut off" his ability to jump, he will start making digging at a fast pace. They do and that's it. How many holes will I cover ........ Eh ..........

Well, for the sake of extending the topic, I am throwing in another diagram that is relatively simple from my collections.

Buddy, you can give the values of the elements in the diagram.

Most of the values are given in the second picture, but the R4 resistor was omitted, I have the impression that for the given transistors it will make sense 33 ohms, for a stronger one (I think it will be useful, otherwise the pulses will be quite weak) - smaller - its value depends on the base current. The pulse repetition frequency depends on the sum of R2 + R3. C2 can be on 6V, you can give a blue LED in parallel to it - so that it lights up if the system is incorrectly assembled or damaged (no emitter connection, or the base of T1 or the lower coil). Don't expect spectacular results from this.