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Delonghi ECAM 23.450S - Problem with milk churning

michal250490 9318 18
This content has been translated flag-pl » flag-en View the original version here.
  • #1
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    Hello,

    Pretty standard theme for this model. The machine does not whip milk. I got it from my parents without a milk container (lost) and wanted to fix it so that it works 100%. Until now, he only made coffee and hot water, and when it was given to me even as the milk container was, the milk maker did not froth. Okay, let me get to the point. I ordered a milk container from North.pl (Catalog number: 706-UC-2867) I connected and the milk frothing does not work. I am writing about this container to eliminate it from suspicion. It is new and certainly not clogged.

    Symptoms: when I turn on the capuccino mode or frothing milk, the milk is not sucked into the tube, sometimes the level will rise a little, but never suck the milk. Only water vapor and water are flowing from the nozzle. It is also a symptom that instead of sucking milk it blows into the container. This can be seen by the bubbles forming in the container. In a word, the pressure is not enough to draw milk. I read similar topics on the forum, but I don't care about tips like replace all valves and something else. I would like to come to what actually does not work and replace a specific part / parts.



    I undressed the express. I attach photos. In the subject https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2959661-30.html
    there is a post in which two solenoid valves and a nozzle adapter are indicated as potentially damaged. I exclude the container, because as I mentioned I bought a new one.

    I located only one of the solenoids, I don't know where the other is. The adapter has cleaned, as well as the tube that goes out of it to the solenoid valve. I would like to come to the cause of the damage step by step.

    My first question is where are the other solenoids and can I clean and check them. I will add that I have the ability to control solenoid valves from an external source (230V AC) after unscrewing and I have access to compressed air, so I could also see if they work properly. My guess is that the solenoid valve in the picture works on the principle that when it is not controlled, it passes water from the top to the left, while in the event of control the left drain is closed, while all the water should go to the right. I might be wrong?

    I can be wrong in all these suspicions, so please help me what to clean / check / replace in order for the machine to froth the milk.
    However, it seems to me that this is due to the insufficient flow of liquid / vapor through the adapter, which does not create a sufficient vacuum to suck the milk through the hole in the adapter (between the larger and smaller O-rings). And in fact, maybe the solenoid valves do not fully open (damaged) or this adapter is damaged, so this vacuum is not there. Please help.

    I attach a video from the test of the aforementioned solenoid valve. If it is not pumped, it feeds the entire air stream to one side (not towards the nozzle adapter), after actuation a loud humming sound is heard, and the flow in the direction in which the nozzle is normally located is minimal. Is it possible that the vacuum is too low to draw milk from the container?
    greetings
  • #2
    mamkonto
    Level 15  
    Once in the age of saeco, the solenoid valve was completely clogged. I took it apart from small parts inside, literally a cork seal. steam supply was blocked too (tube)
    There, the solenoid was undressed, although it was almost invisible it was easily unscrewed.
    Disassemble the coil and carefully look at the pin where it is twisted and try to disassemble.
  • #3
    nioop

    Home appliances specialist
    michal250490 wrote:
    ... after humming, a loud humming noise is heard and the flow in the direction in which the nozzle is normally located is minimal. Is it possible that the vacuum is too low to draw milk from the container?
    greetings


    It should not be humming, it should make a "pop" and that's it ... Loud work indicates the pollution of the flip and more precisely its interior.

    At the beginning I advised you to descale
  • #4
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    I ordered a new solenoid valve, waiting for delivery. The question is where is the second one located? I can't locate it. Can anyone briefly describe how this milk frothing system works in the sense of how and when each valve is actuated?
  • #5
    mamkonto
    Level 15  
    Assembly drawing sent to PW.
    greetings
  • #6
    nioop

    Home appliances specialist
    But for you, I see one solenoid valve ...
    In DeLonghi, sometimes even despite the same model, there are different solutions, just different solutions were used in the course of production.

    Please, take the water tank out and a sticker with a long number behind it. I'm interested in the number for the first space. After him, I can check exactly what and how "sits" with the Lord in the device.

    Please consult before ordering parts for Delonghi. As I mentioned one model several different parts. Heaters, for example, come with different diameters of the inlet pipe.

    By blocking the damaged / contaminated solenoid valve, the steam temperature increases, which usually results in slight deformation of the foamer adapter.
    Therefore, the probability of sucking in the left air / increasing the patency of the adapter increases dramatically. Therefore, it is also recommended to replace the adapter.

    Naturally, this depends on the length of attempts to check the frother, the longer the probability of damage to the adapter increases.
  • #7
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    nioop wrote:

    Please, take the water tank out and a sticker with a long number behind it. I'm interested in the number for the first space. After him, I can check exactly what and how "sits" with the Lord in the device.


    Hello, thank you for your interest in the topic.
    I give the number 215095.
  • #8
    nioop

    Home appliances specialist
    One solenoid valve is catalog number 5213218381.

    Delonghi ECAM 23.450S - Problem with milk churning


    And that you do DIY in the express machine, maybe the service will be useful?
  • #9
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    nioop wrote:
    And that you do DIY in the express machine, maybe the service will be useful?


    Great, that's what I meant, step by step described how the full flow in the machine looks like. Thanks a lot!

    nioop wrote:
    One solenoid valve is catalog number 5213218381.


    Well, I hurried up a bit because I ordered 5213218421. Will it not fit?
  • #10
    nioop

    Home appliances specialist
    According to the catalog, they match:
    -5213218381
    -5213214011

    What you ordered - It's hard to say, it definitely has a coil turned away, it is not a problem, you can twist it or something, I really do not know.

    It is present in the ECAM 23.450.S EX model: 3.
    And as I mentioned, the same model only the "EX: 3" ending and please look how it looks inside

    Delonghi ECAM 23.450S - Problem with milk churning
  • #11
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    nioop wrote:
    According to the catalog, they match:
    -5213218381
    -5213214011

    What you ordered - It's hard to say, it definitely has a coil turned away, it is not a problem, you can twist it or something, I really do not know.

    It is present in the ECAM 23.450.S EX model: 3.
    And as I mentioned, the same model only the "EX: 3" ending and please look how it looks inside

    Delonghi ECAM 23.450S - Problem with milk churning


    I ordered the solenoid valve 5213218381 today, it will probably take place on Monday, I will connect and test, I hope that the adapter with the nozzle is in good working order and I will not have to replace it.

    I have one more question, do you have a detailed electrical diagram of the PCB?
  • #12
    nioop

    Home appliances specialist
    michal250490 wrote:

    I have one more question, do you have a detailed electrical diagram of the PCB?


    Oh no, the manufacturer does not disclose such things even to authorized services.
    The manufacturer prohibits all repairs to electronics, only the replacement of modules, hence he urgently guards such things :)
  • #13
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    Hello again, so I replaced the solenoid valve, but the problem persisted. In addition, after replacing the solenoid valve, the message "Descaling!" Appeared on the display. I attach a video from the operation of the device after replacing the valve. Is it necessary to replace the nozzle adapter?

    I bought a descaling agent and carried out automatic descaling in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. The effect is the same. So what else may be wrong here:

    1) The milk container is new
    2) Solenoid valve replaced
    3) Descaled coffee machine

    The adapter remains, unless something more?
  • #14
    BRum
    Level 21  
    In 3/4 cases, the decalibrated hole in the adapter is the reason for not sucking in milk. A typical Venturi tube, changing the flow rate creates a vacuum and, as a result, sucking in milk. If heated milk, not foamed, then the problem lies in the lack of air suction.
    Foaming is based on mixing milk with air. The problem should disappear after replacement.
  • #15
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    BRum wrote:
    In 3/4 cases, the decalibrated hole in the adapter is the reason for not sucking in milk. A typical Venturi tube, changing the flow rate creates a vacuum and, as a result, sucking in milk. If heated milk, not foamed, then the problem lies in the lack of air suction.
    Foaming is based on mixing milk with air. The problem should disappear after replacement.


    Ok, as you can see in the video, it doesn't suck milk at all, sometimes the level of the tube will rise, but it will fall soon. Rather, it blows in the milk instead of sucking, and the steam itself flies instead of the frothed milk.

    I hope that I only need to replace the adapter, because I'm running out of ideas. As mentioned above @nioop my espresso model has one solenoid valve and I replaced it yesterday. Today I ordered the adapter, we'll see if replacing it will help. (https://north.pl/karta/7313244781-zlacze-pojemnika-na-mleko-de-longhi---kenwood,708-RG-1668.html).
    I read somewhere else about the replacement of the steam heater. However, probably from what I see in my model of the espresso machine there is only one heater.

    Best regards and thank you for your interest in the topic.
  • #16
    michal250490
    Level 7  
    Welcome back,

    The adapter has been replaced, however, frothing milk does not work as it should. When the milk container is connected to the nozzle, the effect is the same. It does not suck milk and blows into the glass with steam. However, when I press the container firmly to the nozzle and tilt it up (and hold it anyway), it sucks the milk, but it is more like spitting with this milk and it does not look foamy, but rather heated. I don't know what to do anymore, because from the beginning of my fun with repair I bought first a lost milk container, then a solenoid valve, and now an adapter. So due to the fact that I replaced the adapter and the milk container, it should not be a problem with tightness. I am asking for some advice because I have no idea what to do.
  • #17
    nal3995
    Level 1  
    hi, i have the exact same problem as you, which is she doesn't suck milk. Have you found the solution?
  • #18
    1lele
    Level 10  
    nal3995 wrote:
    hello i have exactly the same problem as you, which is she doesn't suck milk. Have you found the solution?

    Replace the 2 green O-rings on the outlet where we press the milk container
  • #19
    piga3
    Level 8  
    Welcome gentlemen,
    Let me refresh the topic as it seems unsolved. Hope somebody help me. I have a problem with milk frothing with ECAM 23.450B Ex: 3. I probably replaced the clutches with 10 pieces within a dozen or so months ... The course is always as follows: after replacing the clutch, the machine works great for about 1 month, making about 5 milk coffees a day, and then the nozzle / orifice inside the clutch is damaged, manifested by clogging clutch with its insides (pieces of plastic, like pieces of felt). After cleaning / unplugging the clutch, the machine makes foam, but unfortunately it is worse, and probably for 2 weeks. After these approx. 6 weeks, the clutch should be replaced. The parts store does not accept the complaint, claiming that the machine is not properly used (not cleaned, not descaled), which is obviously not true. As a precaution (so as not to block the clutch with a stone), with each descaling, I disconnect the hose from the foamer and descale the coffee machine without the clutch. What, in your opinion, may be the cause of such frequent failure of clutches? Let me mention that I see no faults in the operation of the solenoid valves - they are clean and electrically functional. In my opinion, these clutches are simply faulty / weak and the pressure of hot steam damages them ... Well, unless I'm wrong ...
    PS
    I had a bad experience before with a thermal fuse, temperature sensor and a triac that controls a 1000W heater. Simply by cleaning the steam heater directly with a descaler, I rinsed the thermal grease, which caused the heater to overheat, the thermic melt and the triac was damaged. After replacing the above-mentioned everything is back to normal.
    Besides frothing milk ...

    Best regards and thank you in advance for your help.