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Ground connected to the water pipe and the tap tweaks

Yzrej77 6960 19
This content has been translated flag-pl » flag-en View the original version here.
  • #1
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    Two wires are connected to the flat in which I live, that is, the whole installation is without a protective conductor - grounding.
    In the kitchen, I discovered three sockets in the sockets, including one for grounding, today I felt on my skin that the sink and faucet tweaks with electricity, when I touch with my hand I feel nothing, but when I touch the inside of the wrist, I feel pinching. I took the probe and after touching the tap it lights ... I started to look for the reason where the tap is electricity and came to the fact that after disconnecting from the microwave socket, the pinching effect disappears. I also determined where the third wire came from the kitchen sockets - grounding .... someone led an additional wire in the wall and connected it to the water pipe.
    It turns out that the microwave after connecting to the socket transmits current to the grounding bolt (why?) And it flies with a cable to the water pipe and if the tap pinches me, it can be similar in my neighbors.
    I turned the microwave off of the socket but what to do next?
    Certainly disconnect this makeshift ground from the water pipe, but do you leave the outlets without ground or bridge the ground prong with the neutral wire in the outlet?
    Why, when switched on to ground, does the microwave give current to the ground prong in the socket, is it completely new, is it damaged and can I use it safely in a non-grounded installation?
  • #2
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    First of all, have you read the oven instruction provided by the manufacturer? It's written there for which installation it can be connected.
    Secondly. When was the electrical installation inspected? It is the owner's responsibility to check the installation at least once every five years.
  • #3
    boguslaw robak
    Level 21  
    Hello buddy, you don't do anything yourself and don't call anything, call a professional electrician, because from what you write, you will ground the microwave and ground people greetings.
  • #4
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    I haven't read the microwave instructions, I admit.
    As for the installation review, I do not know if it was ever made, I bought this apartment and I am slowly arranging it.
    The electrician was two weeks ago, he made an additional circuit specially for the oven, changed the fuse box to a new one and mentioned that the oven socket has a cable with wires, but only two wires are connected to the apartment from the meter on the cage, so the third wire (yellow-green) to earth will not be connected because there is nowhere to connect it.

    I told him that everywhere in the rooms in the sockets there are two wires, but in the kitchen there are three, he said that there must be an extra wire from somewhere. In fact, there is an additional wire for the water pipe, it seems to me that it has been from the beginning of the block, because it is routed in the wall and brought to the originally framed metal cans under the sockets.
    The problem is that part of the water pipe is replaced with a plastic one and I read that it is unacceptable that there is grounding connected to such a pipe.

    Before painting, I replaced all the cans for new, plastic ones, all sockets and switches are new, the electrician watched this while making this connection and said that everything is OK, but it is not, since the faucet and the sink tweaks because the ground is connected to the vertical water.

    I don't really have the money to call a specialist, yesterday one deleted me for connecting a gas hob over PLN 300.
    For now, I disconnected the microwave from the outlet and do not use, but I noticed that the connected fridge also causes the effect of pinching the current in the tap, not as large as the microwave, the probe does not light, but when I touch the inside of the wrist you feel it.
    I have not read the instructions from the fridge either.

    I think I will disconnect this ground from this unfortunate pipe and from my head, can I do that?
  • #5
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    Yzrej77 wrote:
    I haven't read the microwave instructions, I admit.
    As for the installation review, I do not know if it was ever made, I bought this apartment and I am slowly arranging it.
    The electrician was two weeks ago, he made an additional circuit specially for the oven, changed the fuse box to a new one and mentioned that the oven socket has a cable with wires, but only two wires are connected to the apartment from the meter on the cage, so the third wire (yellow-green) to earth will not be connected because there is nowhere to connect it.


    Some fern not an electrician !!!!

    Yzrej77 wrote:
    I think I will disconnect this ground from this unfortunate pipe and from my head, can I do that?


    Disconnect anyway you have to but it won't solve the problem because if the tap kicks it and the housing of the microwave and refrigerator also.
  • #6
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    Yzrej77 wrote:

    The electrician was two weeks ago, he made an additional circuit specially for the oven, changed the fuse box to a new one and mentioned that the oven socket has a cable with wires, but only two wires are connected to the apartment from the meter on the cage, so the third wire (yellow-green) to earth will not be connected because there is nowhere to connect it.
    Du.pa, not an electrician. The power supply to the switchgear had to be replaced with a three-wire one. And this should be done now, even down the wall, in the channel. It will not disfigure but at least it will provide the possibility of using installations and equipment.
    I told him that everywhere in the rooms in the sockets there are two wires, but in the kitchen there are three, he said that there must be an extra wire from somewhere. In fact, there is an additional wire for the water pipe, it seems to me that it has been from the beginning of the block, because it is routed in the wall and brought to the originally framed metal cans under the sockets.
    Once, in buildings from the sixties and earlier, the ground was made to connect the "Frani" washing machine.
    The problem is that part of the water pipe is replaced with a plastic one and I read that it is unacceptable that there is grounding connected to such a pipe.
    So you see it won't work now.
    Before painting, I replaced all the cans for new, plastic ones, all sockets and switches are new, the electrician watched this while making this connection and said that everything is OK, but it is not, since the faucet and the sink tweaks because the ground is connected to the vertical water.
    As above. The water riser is not part of the electrical installation.
    I don't really have the money to call a specialist, yesterday one deleted me for connecting a gas hob over PLN 300.
    Unfortunately, I believe that the power supply to the apartment must be carried out anew. Life is worth more, besides, this electrician should do it as part of the complaint.
    For now, I disconnected the microwave from the outlet and do not use, but I noticed that the connected fridge also causes the effect of pinching the current in the tap, not as large as the microwave, the probe does not light, but when I touch the inside of the wrist you feel it.
    I have not read the instructions from the fridge either.
    It doesn't matter anymore.
    I think I will disconnect this ground from this unfortunate pipe and from my head, can I do that?
    Of course, this does not change the situation. It is necessary to bring power to the apartment with three wires and connect it properly to the home installation.
  • #7
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    Maybe a paprika but he took the money as a normal professional. He made a new fuse box, exposed the paper to the connection of the switchgear or something and the effect is what I describe.

    In the evening I disconnect the grounding in all sockets in the kitchen and from the pipe and for pike the electricity in the tap there is no other way.

    The installation is old and everyone in the block has a fridge or microwave.

    I just hope that the neighbors do not have a similar ground connection to the water pipe.
  • #8
    CYRUS2
    Level 42  
    Yzrej77 wrote:
    I haven't read the microwave instructions, I admit.
    You do not need to read the instructions.
    They don't teach such things at school - and they should.
    Buddy - stick it in your head - if the device has a plug with a "pin clamp", you can only connect it to the socket with a pin.
    Do not connect to a socket without a pin.

    Since most devices have such plugs, installation in your apartment is suitable for modernization.
    Modernization - it is not necessarily an immediate replacement of the installation.

    Instead of teaching inclined grades, one should teach about the safe operation of electrical equipment.
  • #9
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    I called the housing association and there was an electrician, he looked everything and said:
    - the installation in the apartment has 2 wires, the rooms have sockets without a pin and they must remain so
    - in the bathroom there is also a 2-wire installation, in the sockets the pin is bridged with a neutral wire and he would leave it that way, the only device that needs a socket with a pin is a washing machine
    - the kitchen also has 2 wires, the third ground wire is to the water pipe and this must be disconnected
    - it is not possible to connect a ground wire from the staircase meter (I don't know why)
    - even if the grounding wire could be connected to the meter, it can connect the grounding to the oven circuit only in the switchboard, because there is a new, triple wire, so that there is grounding connected to the other sockets, you would have to pull it to the wire that will be disconnected from the water riser then you have to pull the cord through the entire kitchen

    He stated that it is necessary to disconnect this old grounding necessarily, disconnect the sockets from the bolt and make the same bridges as in the bathroom and everything will work.
    I said that I would consult another professional and thank you, I can do it myself for free and not for PLN 200

    And now I am stupid, does what the cooperative's expert make sense?
  • #10
    pol102
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    I see it this way: blah, blah, blah, I don't want to, blah, blah, blah, I have it in my ass, blah, blah, blah, I have no equipment, blah, blah, blah I don't know anything about it, blah, blah , blah, it's okay.

    It is time to invite the electrician-tester and carry out a thorough review of the installation ended with the protocol with the stamp (number and validity of the qualification certificate) of the contractor. There will be a whole litany of things to improve (from inspection, through Riso, to the condition of automatic power off). A little higher driving school and worth 3 times as much as a colleague was too much.
  • #11
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    Well, you can also change the walls, squeeze the tiles and replace the installations in the entire mueshananu ... what the hell, in the whole block right away because there is no third wire ...

    It is not about the fact that for me it's just too expensive in the world, I simply don't have the money for such modernization. I won't call an electrician and tell him to do it now and pay him in two months.

    There are over a hundred blocks in the estate where the installation is 2-wire and people use refrigerators, washing machines and microwaves.

    Since the bathroom has a plug in the socket bridged with a blue wire and it works, can I do the same in the kitchen instead of this grounding from the water pipe?

    I have nowhere and I have nowhere to lead the third wire to the sockets. It is not possible to rip the walls or pull the cables on the walls.

    If I have to divide the blue wire into two in the switchboard, I can do the same in the sockets, I think.
  • #12
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    Yzrej77 wrote:
    there are sockets without pins in the rooms and they must be


    Yzrej77 wrote:
    in the sockets the pin is bridged with the neutral wire and he would leave it that way


    Yzrej77 wrote:
    He stated that it is necessary to disconnect this old grounding necessarily, disconnect the sockets from the bolt and make the same bridges as in the bathroom


    It is in the kitchen and bathroom that you can not in the rooms :?:

    Yzrej77 wrote:
    There are over a hundred blocks in the estate where the installation is 2-wire and people use refrigerators, washing machines and microwaves.


    If the power supply system is TN-C, and it probably is, then you can reset the protective pin of the socket according to figure c)

    Ground connected to the water pipe and the tap tweaks
  • #13
    pol102
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    mawerix123 wrote:
    If the power supply system is TN-C, and it probably is, then you can reset the protective pin of the socket according to figure c)

    Primo, I would not expect there copper wires with a cross section of 10 square millimeters ... the names oblige. Secondly, I would advise you to check the layout of the power supply network.

    I wrote the rest above.
  • #14
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    mawerix123 wrote:

    Ground connected to the water pipe and the tap tweaks


    The sockets are connected as shown in figure B.
    There were two sockets in the kitchen and the previous owner made two more - one was connected to one and the other to the other.

    Does it matter when it comes to connecting the plug in the socket from the blue wire?
    Disconnecting the old ground in all connectors, the blue wire with the spike bridges each socket and will it work? What are the disadvantages of such a solution?
  • #15
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    pol102 wrote:
    Primo, I would not expect there copper wires with a cross section of 10 square millimeters ... the names oblige.


    What naming :?: again the same, you will need to develop a 10mm2 Cu wire for the sockets to do the zeroing :?:

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    Yzrej77 wrote:
    Does it matter when it comes to connecting the plug in the socket from the blue wire?


    It matters.
  • #16
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics
    mawerix123 wrote:


    What naming :?:

    Well, that's in the attachment :D
  • #17
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    mawerix123 wrote:

    It matters.


    Will you reveal what?
    Two wires come to the first socket, which then go to the second socket.
    Bridge neutral (blue) to pin in both sockets?
  • Helpful post
    #19
    oldking
    Level 32  
    The first connected MUST be a pin.
    As in Figure C
  • #20
    Yzrej77
    Level 6  
    oldking wrote:
    The first connected MUST be a pin.
    As in Figure C


    I understand, less risk of voltage appearing on the housing.
    In the boxes behind the socket, the wires are connected with triple Wago connectors, i.e. the wire that comes in, the one that goes to the second socket and the third, short cable to the socket.
    2.5 copper cable so I don't think it will heat up.
    The fridge does not consume a lot of power, it is new in the A ++ class, the second socket is a microwave and a toaster used sporadically, not at once of course.
    The third socket is not used, the next one is a 100W hood, the socket in the cabinet only for the hood.
    Oven on a separate circuit with its own fuse in the switchboard, so I do not take it into account in this cobweb of wires.

    I connected: the phase wire is obvious, neutral to the pin and from the pin the bridge to the second terminal in the socket, i.e. as in Figure C

    Thank you very much, gentlemen, for all the information.