Alternative fiber optic network connection to the house - distance 60m from the

Question

Hello I was faced with an engineering problem, ie how best to do it? Therefore, any suggestion may prove helpful. The company is supposed to connect the Internet via optical fiber. The optical fiber goes to the electric pole, which is about 60m away from the house, it is within my property....

sanfran · Answer

This is optical fiber, so it doesn't have to be straight. Radio is, according to me, the next possible point of failure.

adversus · Answer

The first fundamental question regarding the radio connection is how to power the AP on the pole ??? You only have optical fiber there ... And the power supply?

If this problem is solved, then you can advise on what to build a radio link.

But this also raises the question of other services, whether, for example, cable TV is not supplied via fiber optic cable, because then the radio link is not available.

makosuu · Answer

The radio bridge is the best idea then. At 5GHz, even 450 Mb / s could be possible. The problem is connecting, powering the AP.

Helvetios · Answer

1. About 15m from the pole, I have 230V power supply to the gate. Running the 230V cable on the gate-pole section in this part of the property is much simpler and less demolishing than digging through the length of the plot with fiber optic cable. Theoretically, connecting the radio to the same source as the gate (motor, inductance, load changes, etc.) is not the optimal solution, but there are 230V power filters, there will also be a power supply on the way (230V / 24V), so I assume that there will be no this is the reason for problems in operation or an increase in the failure rate of the radio part of the connection.

2. The assumption is that there is only the Internet. I do not have and do not plan a TV, I have a "landline" phone on VoIP.

Currently, the arguments in favor of radio are:
1.I do not want to demolish the lawn, garden and paving stones,
2.I do not want to dig a 60m ditch,
3. I don't want to drill through holes in the wall of the building.
4. I want to optimally use the existing network infrastructure in the building

Arguments Against:
1. Combined, hybrid, not very elegant solution.
2. As sanfran noted - increasing the number of potential failure points.

The persuasiveness of the arguments for is still stronger than that of those against. But this is a highly subjective assessment (dictated mainly by the reluctance to dig up the property), so I need a strong substantive criticism of the solution I invented in order to give it up (in favor of a more professional solution, which would be to pull the optical fiber to the house itself)

waluszek · Answer

Remember that radio solutions are very capricious, and in my opinion it contradicts the idea of optical fiber at home.

Or maybe it's better to use a fiber optic cable for direct burying, (you omit the covers) (https://www.cyberbajt.pl/produkt/9624/cbf-kabel-swiatlowodowy-dac-2j-g657a1-zxotktc.html)

I do not know how your house is located in relation to the pole and the property in general, but maybe a better idea is to leave the pole and go around the fence, for example, and enter the house in a place where you are closer to the fence (means less digging) (I suppose the plot is not is square and the house is situated in the geometric center of the plot?)

You can always order a jacking, then you dig a few holes and squeeze the cables from hole to hole (ordinary jacking) (or unfortunately steered jacking costs a lot and it's cheaper to take it from the grocery store as a manual excavator operator)

There are many options, but they all cost money. and the cheapest in this case are fiber optic cable and digging. 2 devices that are able to provide decent performance cost about PLN 550 + some hermetic down + power supply. Maybe in 700 you will fit. do you think it's better than a cable?

adversus · Answer

Buddy, do not write nonsense ... at such a distance, there will be no problems at all, unless you do on some cheap TP-link ... If you have not installed such solutions, do not comment on this issue, please ... I wrote about it below, the optical fiber to the ground has a very armored structure, and it will practically survive the test while digging, of course without exaggeration, but it is very durable. And no longer requires a conduit or a casing pipe (arota) Let's skip the next pointless ideas, because the author of the topic at the beginning wrote that he wants to avoid the devastation of the garden / lawn / pavement. And with the jacking, the greenery is devastated anyway, not to mention what kind of machines are needed ... If you set up a wifi bridge on good devices (Ubiquity, Mikrotik) and on 5GHz, it will practically be trouble-free, whole villages and sometimes small town districts (and not only) are on radio links, there are failures. But very rarely, because who would like to have no internet every now and then, and even the provider of such a service would cheat on the site. As for the devices, they usually have the option of being powered by PoE, so at the gate you install a 24V or 48V power supply, depending on the version, and you no longer have mains voltage in the cable. The device has a power supply that accepts such power supply, so no drops or interference from the gate will not affect the operation of the device. In your case, such a solution is the least work, very simple connection, the costs are definitely lower or at most comparable with the optical fiber (depending on the selected price shelf of the equipment) ... At this distance, the link will be mega stable. But... I would arrange an optical fiber at home (or a gelled twisted pair - a matter of consideration, because the price is comparable, although it misses the point), because you do not have to dig the optical fiber at 60cm, generally if you do not plan earthworks in the garden, it is enough to stick a shovel and move the ground and at 20-30cm push in the optical fiber. Such a depth is enough not to damage it during the work with the aerator, and the frost will do nothing to it, because it is a very resistant structure to damage. I think that if you try, maybe you would have even more fiber to lay it, but then you would be able to avoid the pavement ... So it's still a matter to consider, because now 100Mb is enough, and in a moment the appetite will increase and then what ??? With an optical fiber, you almost always have all the options.

LucekB · Answer

Give the sketch what it looks like.
And, for example, a pole on your property, somewhere in the corner of the plot, then to the ground or overhead along (parallel) like the plot border and does not hang across the center of the yard?
I shoot because there is no sketch and I don't know what it looks like with you.
Radio on the pole? and how will you power them? from the voltage on the pole without a meter?

jack63 · Answer

I will also connect the optical fiber. About 40 m from my pole. The situation is similar, but I do not have to exceed the ankle.
I will do as adversus recommends with a slight modification. Namely, I will bury shallow optical fiber in hard conduit for about 15/20 seconds, I will enter the house at the gas pipe.
This is what my supplier recommended me. Especially this "digging across".
I recommend you too. Better to round the ankle around than to ruin it. If possible, of course.
Radiówka is much more expensive and, however, a reduction in transfer. These 450 Mb / s are fairy tales. Added to this is the DFS. The antennas need to see each other.
I have a radio myself and it has been running flawlessly (except for the power supply) for three years, but it is only 8Mb / s (the limit in the router at the antenna) and is at frequencies higher than AC.
Ev. If you get along with the supplier, maybe you can get a second set from him that you probably have on the chimney, it will be removed from another customer who had it early and now has optical fiber. Then it would make both technical and economic sense. Talk to the supplier.

adversus · Answer

Colleagues, seriously the earth-ground fiber has a very strong structure, conduits and protective tubes are unnecessary. Well, probably only to have the comfort that this conduit is there, but it will not survive the meeting with a shovel, unless you arrange arota, but that's a different price, and a ground-based optical fiber does. After 20 or 30 cm burying, if no one is going to dig there, it is indestructible.
You do not have to go straight home from the pole, you can go on a swivel, more fiber optics will come out, but you will bypass paved sidewalks :)

A good, branded radio will work without a problem, but something for something.

jack63 · Answer

The question is this. What kind of optical fiber hangs with me (at the author of the topic) on the pole on the other side of the street? During the construction of the bus, they install distribution boxes and leave coils of about 300m. As you write, Arot for a few zlotys / m is unprofitable and is an excess of form. In contrast, a thin conduit with a remote control is only for ease of connection by the supplier company. I bury them, they are quickly pulled in and ready. I have to ask if they would agree to bury the bare fiber? Now I regret that I did not put the conduit under the arot while doing the wlz ...

waluszek · Answer

Adversus Why are you attacking me without knowing my level of knowledge and experience in the subject? I gave the author a few solutions with a meaningful description of what and how, and the author has to choose something that suits him or give more data. And you know what the basic idea of an optical fiber is, (I don't mean the speed) the distance you can send a lossless signal, I assume that since you attack my knowledge / experience, you also know that the twisted pair has limitations in length, and since the author wrote that from the pole to the house is about 60 meters long, take into account all the angles of the transition, the entrance to the pole and so on, it will probably come out over 100 m, I do not have to say what the effect will be, besides all the optical fiber has one more advantage, probably even the most important, is completely dielectric as opposed to a twisted pair in the ground. I do not have to say what will happen to the network equipment if there is a lightning bolt somewhere very close. Besides, I can see that you have not seen much in your life, believe I know what I am writing, I did a few installations and saw the link on 50m, the radio in AC did not want to work properly, because the ether was so saturated. When it started to work, the transfer did not exceed 30 mega. Besides, writing that the conduit is redundant in the case of optical fiber, I will say yes and no. but if you write that you can fix the conduit with a shovel, hmmm, of course, if you use a corrugated electric conduit, yes, but for optical fibers the most common RHDPE pipe is used, such as -optotelekomunikacyjnych-telkom-rhdpe) I wish you good luck with your spade, because you will need to cut it :P As my colleagues wrote above, we need a situational sketch of the plot, the location of the pole and the house to advise something.

adversus · Answer

My friend is not an attack, but drawing attention, the author, judging by the description, does not live in the city center or in an industrial district, if he previously had a radio link, he is aware that it should work well otherwise he would not take it into account at all, so rather The ether is not cluttered, and writing that the link at 60m will not work is funny, since it has a pole on the property, it is rather the vicinity of some housing estate ... and advising jacking on the property where the author clearly wrote that he does not want to ruin the plot is also out of place. So much and only that ... Constructive criticism, that's what. Like all predecessors, I agree that the plot of the plot would explain a lot and help in choosing the best solution. And by the way, this link on 30m that did not want to go, what was it on in your opinion?

waluszek · Answer

not at 30m, but at 50m, and it was combined with 2x LBE-5AC. When writing about jacking, I probably should have left a clear sign that it was a joke.

Helvetios · Answer

Boys! Stop arguing

It does not make sense.

I asked for any opinions and ideas, so each is valuable. and I have my brain and a certain idea about ICT as well (I am an ICT technician by education, only that was about 20 years ago, so I'm not as much in the subject as I used to be because then I became an MSc in automation), so I can evaluate individual statements.

I am asking for a substantive discussion, not an emotional one :)

I will add the sketch - good point - but I will not be able to do until Mon, so please be patient.

Added after 41 [minutes]:

waluszek:
This is exactly what is bothering me with my idea. The idea of an optical fiber (an "ideal" interference-proof connection) is at odds with a radio (very sensitive to noise and sensitive to weather conditions).
However, at this distance (yes: countryside, yes: rather few sources of interference), the disadvantages of the radio seem to be negligible, as confirmed by other interlocutors.

Direct burial fiber idea - I like it very much. I did not know that such a fiber can be so cheap. I would expect tens or hundreds of PLN per meter.
With such a price and the fact that it is enough to make a shallow incision with a spade instead of a 60 cm conduit for a conduit, it is even worthwhile to go next to the fence by adding a few meters, but then there is practically no fear of damage during some earthworks in the future.

I will not miss the sidewalk because it is 70 cm wide pavement around the whole house, next to the wall.

adversus:
Yes, this limitation of 100Mb / s is also on my mind that someday it may turn out that I want more. With the current pace of telefinformatics development, it may turn out that in 5 years 100 is not enough. Gigabit Internet is said to be starting to reach individual consumers somewhere. Currently I have 10Mbps and a year ago it seemed sufficient to me, but 10 years ago I had 36kbps and it also seemed to me

e.t.c...
Indeed, this is an argument against restricting yourself to radio.

LucekB:
I have already written twice that I have a gate close to the pole, to which I am from home
brought 230V

adversus:
This radio is now connected to the transmitter supposedly a few kilometers away. Unfortunately, with the 10Mbps I pay for in practice, the most common is 5MBps, and sometimes even worse. It is difficult to say whether it is a problem of the radio link or further links of this company. It is difficult to argue with the company, because they always have the argument that it is a radio, after all, and that it is sensitive to weather conditions. Therefore, I want to get rid of the radio as there is the possibility of optical fiber. And that's why, in turn, I also feel stupid to switch to the hybrid optical fiber + radio, since I want to get rid of the radio

And that's why I created this thread.

At the moment, the best fiber to be buried in the ground seems to me to be the best (the existence and price of which I did not know). It solves my biggest "I don't want to", i.e. digging a 60cm x 60m trench, and the problem of demolishing the yard practically disappears, since all you need is a groove from driving a shovel. The only thing left is drilling in the wall and the sidewalk, but the profit and loss balance is still positive.

sanfran · Answer

I don't know what it looks like with your supplier, but do you have the option to change the type of fiber on the pole?

adversus · Answer

And what are the contraindications to switch to a ground-to-earth optical fiber ???? Dude, find out what the infrastructure of the fiber optic network looks like, you will know that there are cabinets where the fibers are connected - it is important that the same type of fiber (single / multi-mode) should be used.

To the author of the topic, a link for a few kilometers correctly combined allows you to easily achieve 100Mb / s and more, depending on the equipment used (I have such a connection with my client, during the trials it was 120, the final transfer for the client is 70Mb / s) it all depends on the provider . If the provider in the area has a small Mb / s pool, then after dividing it into as many customers there is 5 Mb / s and less. Nothing fancy, the question of how the bandwidth is split. In my city, a friend who gives access to the net via radio would not have customers if he gave access to 1 or 5Mb / s, such times that customers appreciate speed and reliability, and as soon as the net cuts, there is an alarm. Poorly with the net is in poorly configured radio networks precisely at rush hour, when everyone sits down at the computers, then the connections are clogged, but not the radio.

The ankle band around the house can be walked around, (a bit of fun, but to be done on a Saturday afternoon with a beer as a relaxation or a springboard from monotony) the fact that you will have not 60, 100 or even 200 m of optical fiber because you will fly a bit around the plot does not matter for of this transmission medium, it is important to draw it later on a plan where exactly the optical fiber is going, so that in the event of some earthwork it does not damage it, and that's it.

waluszek wrote:
not at 30m, but at 50m, and it was combined with 2x LBE-5AC.

When writing about jacking, I probably should have left a clear sign that it was a joke.

With the equipment you specified for it to work as described, you would have to install it in an industrial hall or in a steelworks, and I still bet that you can easily set up a very good connection. A matter of experience, knowledge and skills. RF technique does not forgive mistakes, unfortunately. Because such a set allows you to build a link up to 30 km and a friend says that at 50m it worked poorly. Where, under ideal conditions, the manufacturer specifies a bandwidth of up to 1Gb / s. If it were like you write that the radio links are capricious, nobody would use them. and they are often used even in reliability-sensitive applications. Don't you find that weird ??????

sanfran · Answer

I do not know what the fiber-optic infrastructure looks like in the Polish province and I have no way of finding out. So instead of biting remarks, take it and explain it to others please.
I am familiar with the concept of optical fiber because I work with such infrastructure on drilling platforms and vessels. And with short-distance and satellite radio transmission.

adversus · Answer

These are not biting or malicious remarks, but just click on google and read a bit if you don't know, instead of cluttering the topic that there may be a problem with your connection .... The question should be what is the supply of optical fiber on the pole and, possibly, what kind of fiber optic cable it has. The secondary comes to mind, is it possible to go from one to the other .... ???? But since, by analogy to the box in the street, there is a main cable with, for example, 50 fibers, and it is distributed to subscribers with a cable with two fibers, it is logical that in the box / cabinet they are welded together, checked for the quality of the weld. And that's the end of it. Same when switching from copper to aluminum is that a problem ??? No, all you need is a suitable adapter, connector, etc. (sometimes a special washer on one side is copper and on the other aluminum). There are probably some standards that producers must keep and the system elements are always unified. It is the same with optical fibers. Besides, the author himself wrote that he is not a layman, and as such he has technical knowledge (and even technical education). I try to provide the author with specific solutions based on my experience in the IT industry, not that I think I only know because I use them. And I do not propose jacking or question proven solutions such as radio link. If someone took my criticism (I try to make it constructive and argued) as being spiteful, please forgive me for that, and that's it. There is nothing personal here, but if I do not know a topic, I do not just speak in it, but sometimes it irritates me when someone has an urge to write just enough to write and bring nothing to the topic.

jack63 · Answer

I am from the same province as the author of the topic, so I will take the floor. If Krakow and its surroundings are a province for you, maybe you should comment on the metropolis of Aberdeen ... I support. A sanfan friend admits himself that he does not know the situation, but he expresses himself and, still slightly defeated, goes into an insult that is incomprehensible to others ??? I am not a specialist in fiber optic networks, but I live in the area where the author of the topic lives, maybe even close (?) And I know what it looks like in nature. It is exactly as described by a colleague @adversus ! Thanks for your valuable advice. Pros for you.

adversus · Answer

Colleagues, I really don't have anything personal to anyone, but let's respect each other and let's write in the subject and on the subject, and let's not hold any grudges against anyone, because probably none of us are going to argue here on the forum. Another thing is that more than once for my firm statements, hate flew towards me from people with really little technical knowledge, but having thousands of points for just writing on all topics, but not on the topic or bringing nothing to the discussion ...

sanfran · Answer

I am not offended or scolded by anyone.
On the other hand, if anyone was offended by the word "province", I apologize, because that's the hype. However, when it comes to my "metropolis", as one of my colleagues put it nicely, I would like to point out that in my area there are more pastures with lambs than houses higher than three floors.
And I am very happy that I live in the countryside / provinces / rump ** and u (delete as appropriate).

Helvetios · Answer

Enough! Enough!
Why quarrels? Why are your stupid quarrels,
After all, we will all die in the soup.
To quote a classic.

I live on the so-called Wsioku, as the neighbors describe it nicely, although I have 10 minutes to Krakow, I can say that I live in the provinces. The fiber-optic infrastructure is still being developed, so it is still difficult to say what it will be like.

From your suggestions coming out of the radio would not be such an abnormal idea as I was afraid of, but the idea with a fiber intended for burial seems to be a much better solution in my case, especially since it is not as expensive as you might expect.

I consider the problem with the topic to be solved. Thank you all for the substantive discussion. I just needed something like that - an exchange of thoughts with people who are knowledgeable about the subject. Thank you and best regards to everyone.

Michael

jack63 · Answer

But you won't buy it. This is the role of the intrnet provider. The situation is similar with the optical fiber-ethernet converter. Call and ask. You have to agree to the supplier's terms anyway.

waluszek · Answer

So yeah, I described what I was struggling with. I put together a few hundred radio links, (I'm an ISP) so believe me I know what I'm doing and I don't lack knowledge or experience. For clarification, because I see a discussion about fiber optic technology in this topic. So I will try to explain clearly what it looks like generally, 3 technologies are used (GPON, GEPON, FTTX) the first two are most often used for the so-called FTTH (Fiber to the Home) to ensure the so-called last mile, i.e. translating into Polish, it is the last network segment connecting the client with the backbone and are passive networks they don't need active middlemen along the way. FTTX in various variants is used for PtP connections (Point to Point and business lines, and they are active connections, so active amplifying devices are needed for longer distances). The PON technology itself is quite simple to understand, as long as we do not delve into the technique. to implement such a connection, we really need 3 elements The transmitter OLT of the fiber optic cable and the receiver ONT unfortunately in such a configuration it would be a PtP connection. The standard scheme of delivery of such a link for both small and large operators is the use of GPON (older GEPON implementation). that is, a passive optical network. This is done in such a way that the operator, starting from himself with 1 fiber, depending on the technology, can connect to this fiber from 64 users (GEPPON) to 256 users (GPON), the whole myk is based on optical splitters, they are passive optical splitters, one fiber is made of, for example, 32 and it is this device that is placed in the so-called muffs on the poles from which the optical fibers come out directly to the customer. In the case of the author, 90% of it will be GPON, which is not of great importance for the link itself, it is just a matter of agreeing with the operator to install a small muff on the author's pole and weld the author's cable to his cable from the muff. There is also a good chance that the operator will provide the appropriate cable himself for an additional fee.

karlosik · Answer

The author should dig in the optical fiber and that's it. Take a photo of where the cable lies. You do not have to worry about mowing or aeration, because it is enough for a cutting edge.

Lodek · Answer

Hello, I was interested in this discussion

)
I have the same idea for the connection, i.e. connect the radio from the pole where the optical fiber is. I have about 110 meters for the pole and I can see it, but to connect I have to put up 3 poles or dig along the road. The supplier has been refusing me for six months that the investment is unprofitable for them, but when I pressed, they agreed, for the price of 12,000-16,000 (which is way too much for me).
Is there any connection option in this case? I will definitely not supply power to the pole and I do not know if the supplier has any possibility; ((You may know if there is a power cord on the poles along with the optic cable, which you can use?

Anonymous · Answer

Dear author. You gave 3 solutions yourself:
- overhead optical fiber
- optical fiber to the ground
- radio bridge

You are aware of the costs of individual solutions, and you are also perfectly aware of the quality, aesthetics, etc. - you finally described it yourself.

I believe that none of us knows your situation as well as you do yourself, and therefore, apart from arguments, we probably won't add much to your dilemmas.

Personally, I would arrange the order (from the best solution):
- optical fiber to the ground
- overhead optical fiber
- radio bridge

However, I think that you have to make the decision yourself, unfortunately, and I see that you have all the pros and cons.

andk1eltd · Answer

110 m is one pole, not three - unless there are terrible swirls. It takes 15 minutes to set up a pole and it's not a terrible cost. However, the problem may be the ownership of the land on which the pole is to stand and through whose sky the cable is to hang. Optical fiber is glass, there are no electrical conductors there - and this is its main advantage and advantage over other media.

Alternative fiber optic network connection to the house - distance 60m from the

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