Max Power Output of 12V 100A Alternator & 12/230V Converter: Calculations & Connecting 5 Units

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#1 17339940 20 Jul 2018 12:52

Anonymous Anonymous

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Post #1
17339940 20 Jul 2018 12:52

Hello.
I have this problem:
12V 100A alternator. I assume that it is driven to maximum performance. I connect the 12 / 230V converter. What is the real power. That is, what maximum power the device can connect to. How is it calculated? If I connect, for example, 5 alternators, the power will be a multiple, will I miss something?
Please help.
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#2 17339989 20 Jul 2018 13:40

sanfran sanfran

Network and Internet specialist

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Post #2
17339989 20 Jul 2018 13:40

Yes, it will be a multiple.

Added after 27 [minutes]:

The real power is what the load will be.
The alternator has something like a voltage regulator, which aims at a certain voltage at the output (in the case of automotive alternators it is about 14.5V).
Now the alternator is electrically loaded, i.e. power is drawn from it. The voltage at the output drops, the regulator, striving to maintain it, increases the current flowing through the rotor (in the alternator, it is generated in the stator), the rotor puts greater resistance on the machine that drives it, and that's it.
And at some point, either the drive will not perform and the RPM will drop, or the rotor will get the maximum excitation current - and the voltage on the alternator will start to drop below the rated value - we have reached the limit.
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#3 17340069 20 Jul 2018 13:53

Anonymous Anonymous

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Post #3
17340069 20 Jul 2018 13:53

Thanks.
It remains to be checked experimentally? Assemble the system and attach more and more loads, e.g. drill, drill, drill and meters to check when the "end" is approaching? Because two bulbs will power it anyway.
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#4 17340110 20 Jul 2018 14:18

sanfran sanfran

Network and Internet specialist

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Post #4
17340110 20 Jul 2018 14:18

Yet another aspect should be considered.
Each electric machine has parameters such as instantaneous power, hourly power and continuous power.

Car alternators (and it seems to me that my colleague is thinking about something like that) are not designed for continuous full load operation.
#5 17340135 20 Jul 2018 14:36

Anonymous Anonymous

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Post #5
17340135 20 Jul 2018 14:36

That's how I think about them. Drive one by engine, propeller, water ... and several others by magnetic wheels. Make 600W of the inserted, for example, 150W. The range of revolutions of continuous operation should be somewhere in the characteristics of alternators?
#6 17340166 20 Jul 2018 14:56

jack63 jack63

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Post #6
17340166 20 Jul 2018 14:56

grz_w wrote:
Drive one by engine, propeller, water ... and several others by magnetic wheels.

What are these "magnetic wheels"?

grz_w wrote:
Make 600W of the inserted, for example, 150W.

Why not MW ??? After all, it's as simple as perpetual motion machines have already been invented.
#7 17340167 20 Jul 2018 15:02

vodiczka vodiczka

Level 43

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Post #7
17340167 20 Jul 2018 15:02

grz_w wrote:
Make 600W of the inserted, for example, 150W.
Is my friend thinking about perpetual motion machines?
If the alternator power (at the output) is to be e.g. 600W, the mechanical power (rotating the alternator rotor) must be> 600W

grz_w wrote:
12V 100A alternator. I assume that it is driven to maximum performance. I connect the 12 / 230V converter. What is the real power
12V x100A = 1200W
Let's assume that the 12 / 230V converter has an efficiency of 90%
1200W x 90/100 = 1080W
With a lower efficiency of the converter, your colleague will not get 1kW
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#8 17340293 20 Jul 2018 16:08

Anonymous Anonymous

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Post #8
17340293 20 Jul 2018 16:08

On the alternator shaft, a wheel with magnets around the circumference. On the next one too. One is driven by a motor, the next by magnets. That's what I mean, maybe I wrote it too haphazardly. I know the laws of dynamics P in = P int + P out. I do not want to put in the example 100W and pick up more from one alternator, only from several.
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#9 17340305 20 Jul 2018 16:20

kkknc kkknc

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Post #9
17340305 20 Jul 2018 16:20

12V is the rated voltage. 100A is the rated current efficiency, but at 14V. You can pull a little more from the alternator. Except that modern alternators are not built for maximum continuous power for a long time. And the efficiency of the alternator is about 50%, so to take a kilowatt from it you need to put two .....
#10 17340529 20 Jul 2018 18:55

kortyleski kortyleski

Level 43

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Post #10
17340529 20 Jul 2018 18:55

grz_w wrote:
. I know the laws of dynamics P.

grz_w wrote:
. I do not want to put in the example 100W and pick up more from one alternator, only from several.

What's the difference with one or several? The laws of physics taught in elementary school have not changed so far. The power delivered to any miracle box inside must always be greater than the power received. Basically not power, but energy. It can't be helped.

Added after 10 [minutes]:

Why did I mention energy. Because power is a imprecise concept. Of course, each of us has access to a device in which we put 100 W and receive 1000W. Only ignoring the losses, if I put these hundred watts in for 10 minutes, I will receive 1000W for only a minute.
And yet another. We take a can of canned food and throw PLN 1 every minute for 100 minutes. After 100 minutes, we close the experiment and in a fraction of a second we become the owner of as much as one hundred zlotys. And yet we only put in single zlotys.
#11 17340584 20 Jul 2018 19:12

vodiczka vodiczka

Level 43

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Post #11
17340584 20 Jul 2018 19:12

grz_w wrote:
One is driven by a motor, the next by magnets. That's what I mean, maybe I wrote it too haphazardly
What is the difference whether they are rigidly connected with a cardan shaft or a magnetic clutch?
You will always take out less than you put in
grz_w wrote:
I do not want to put in the example 100W and pick up more from one alternator, only from several.
Then say in plain text "this is what I want to put in and so much to pick up" and close the topic or move it to Hyde Park.
#12 17340841 20 Jul 2018 21:26

Anonymous Anonymous

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Post #12
17340841 20 Jul 2018 21:26

Thank you to everyone who hints something and the rest for the "serious" hints. As for the youth, yes, I was young once. Later, in technical studies (although in a different direction) I did things that also "could not be". I am asking the administrator to delete the topic and my account.
#13 17341181 21 Jul 2018 05:34

iron64 iron64

Level 41

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Post #13
17341181 21 Jul 2018 05:34

I rather doubt your technical education, it is not about boasting, but about the fact that in order to receive, for example, 6kW of energy, you must provide these 6kW plus what will be lost, even in heat. Everything has its efficiency, the efficiency of electric motors is high, but it is still 0.97-0.98. The efficiency of the alternator is much lower.
The method of connection you have come up with (theoretically, as I understand it) is suitable for perpetual motion. You deliver 100W and you receive 600W. if you expand your machine park in such a way, you can produce electricity on a global scale. The question of how many alternators will you use, right?
Tell my friend, have you read what you wrote yourself?
Nothing is for free, just. If someone says otherwise, it means they are not looking wide enough. A child may think that they are getting toys for free, but we know that someone had to pay for them.
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Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the power output capabilities of a 12V 100A alternator when connected to a 12/230V converter, particularly when multiple units are used. It is established that the real power output is influenced by the alternator's voltage regulation and efficiency, with a maximum theoretical output of 1200W (12V x 100A). However, practical limitations arise due to the alternator's design for intermittent use rather than continuous full load operation. The efficiency of the converter is also a critical factor, with estimates suggesting around 90% efficiency, leading to a maximum usable power of approximately 1080W. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding the relationship between input and output power, emphasizing that energy losses must be accounted for, and that one cannot expect to extract more power than is input, especially in the context of multiple alternators. Experimental testing is suggested to determine the limits of the system under load.
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