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Online fees and VAT rate

lisek2 6204 18
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #1 17758659
    lisek2
    Level 11  
    Posts: 12
    Rate: 35
    I wanted to ask the esteemed forum users for their opinion on:

    I have to pay for the VPN service - I use NORDVPN - I pay for 3 years so it's cheaper. But I have the option to choose a country (other) and then I will not pay VAT. What do you think, admit that you are Polish (23%) or not (0%). I had the same with a hamster and it worked at zero rate. How is it from the legal side?
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  • #2 17758761
    H3nry
    Level 32  
    Posts: 1714
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    You will pay back years later with interest.
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  • #3 17758797
    also
    Level 15  
    Posts: 609
    Rate: 77
    H3nry wrote:
    You will pay back years later with interest.
    He sets up an anonymous account from a foreign ip with a foreign browser so they can jump him :D . This company does not pay tax in PL anyway, so it would pass without these oddities. Poland, Polish IP is not only Poles, but also Jews, Ukrainians, Arabs, so different tax rates :D
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  • #4 17758828
    Matuzalem

    Level 43  
    Posts: 17279
    Help: 1651
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    also wrote:
    H3nry wrote:
    You will pay back years later with interest.
    He sets up an anonymous account from a foreign ip with a foreign browser so they can jump him :D . This company does not pay tax in PL anyway, so it would pass without these oddities. Poland, Polish IP is not only Poles, but also Jews, Ukrainians, Arabs, so different tax rates :D


    And boors of your provenance (regardless of their religion, nationality or skin color).

    Mr. lisek2 - "from the legal side" the indication "other" would be a fraud and a fiscal criminal offence.

    P.S
    And it will probably be my post that deserves a report.
    Company Account:
    Doradztwo podatkowe
    Wilczyńskiego 25/13, Olsztyn, 10-686
  • #5 17759098
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #6 17759185
    Matuzalem

    Level 43  
    Posts: 17279
    Help: 1651
    Rate: 1079
    I don't think that's right, Mr Atom1477.
    "Fraud" can be argued about, but if someone uses a false location, what difference does it make if it is considered fraud, deception, or untruth? The meaning is always the same. However, the lack of the payment itself, but rather the calculation or demonstration of the tax (if it was due), it would probably be more "evasion of (tax) duty" than fraud.
    About
    atom1477 wrote:
    In addition, he purchases the service outside Poland and the service is also outside Poland. So in my opinion Polish VAT is not due here.
    and, in this case, there is only one premise allowing for "assumption" about the VAT due. It is the occurrence of this tax in connection with the price for the buyer from Poland. Unless we are to assume that "others" are preferred (treated fairly), and "Poland" is cut by the supplier who - to achieve a higher margin - added VAT to the price (and this is a scammer :wink :) .
    There are more unknown variables (e.g. supplier's country, recipient's status), and they can decide whether "Polish VAT" is due or not. But that's a completely different story (for long winter evenings).
    Company Account:
    Doradztwo podatkowe
    Wilczyńskiego 25/13, Olsztyn, 10-686
  • #7 17759226
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #8 17760205
    Matuzalem

    Level 43  
    Posts: 17279
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    Again, I don't think you want to notice that what you wrote cannot be "separated" from the context. Since the effect of "providing an untruth" on the seller's/supplier's form is/is to be tax evasion, then...
    By the way - I didn't know that without the appropriate clause "in the civil contract" I can freely manipulate the facts: not Sasha, but Grisha; not a car, but a bicycle; not in Moscow but in St. Petersburg and did not win and they stole (from him) without any effect on its validity. The fact - if I try hard, it will be important, because the buyer will not find me, but I don't think that's what "importance" is about, right? Or maybe not? At least judging by your return to the entry "about the truth" in the regulations of the service (penultimate sentence of the post).

    In addition to the unknown elements that you mentioned, there are others - the plural is used intentionally - so I suggest that if the supplier makes the selling price (components) dependent on the country of destination, it is anchored in one - at least one - of these unknown data ( please note that some - i.e. other than zero - VAT rate occurs in the case of choosing a country such as Malta, Luxembourg, Lithuania or Portugal, so let me limit the list to a few EU countries. you take into consideration.

    By the way, if someone wants - for a little over PLN 100 of dubious savings - to feel the thrill of emotions for 5 years (they will find it - they will not find it), then maybe there is really nothing to discourage them from it?





    P.S.
    EU, in the case of VAT it is the EU and the Schengen area does not matter.
    Company Account:
    Doradztwo podatkowe
    Wilczyńskiego 25/13, Olsztyn, 10-686
  • #9 17760339
    also
    Level 15  
    Posts: 609
    Rate: 77
    Matuzalem wrote:
    By the way, if someone wants - for a little over PLN 100 of dubious savings - to feel the thrill of emotions for 5 years (they will find it - they will not find it), then maybe there is really nothing to discourage them from it?
    Who and how will check that he is a Pole in the POLIN country? If the author has chicory, I will set up an account for him and sell it for PLN 100 more :D It makes no sense to pay tax in a country that exists only in theory and that's about it.
  • #10 17760358
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #11 17760972
    also
    Level 15  
    Posts: 609
    Rate: 77
    atom1477 wrote:
    Polish VAT is paid not because you are Polish, but because the transaction is in Poland.
    Not true. I can make a transfer from any country because what matters is where the purchase contract was concluded :D If it were as you write, it would be a crime to buy German washing powder, which has a lower VAT than in the POLIN country. now what? POLIN will pursue me because I like German washing powder better? :D It's a free market and I have the right to buy where I want.
  • #12 17761005
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    Posts: 14651
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    And what is VAT? Was it the devil's tax on tax? As the wise books show, in ancient times there was one tax. It was called a tithe because its rate was set at 10%. So it was already under King Solomon, as well as after. And today yellow book thieves' eyes invented another tax. I'm not even talking about the rates. In many countries in the world, there is no VAT and despite this, societies function and people have money to buy food and clothes. So much for the topic.
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  • #13 17761028
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #14 17761092
    also
    Level 15  
    Posts: 609
    Rate: 77
    atom1477 wrote:

    If it mattered where the purchase contract was concluded, Germany would matter. So the payment of German VAT would be legal.
    If you're right, don't be fooled. The guest buys a VPN from a foreign IP (some tax haven) and declares it as such. He does transactions with PL and that's about it. In accordance with the law, according to (logs), the purchase was made from abroad from a tax haven :D

    It's like German washing powder. I order from the Germans with a German IP and ask them to deliver to my address in PL :D German receipt with German lower tax :D , Polish delivery address :D
  • #15 17761202
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #16 17761586
    Chris_W
    Level 39  
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    yogi009 wrote:
    As the wise books show, in ancient times there was one tax. It was called a tithe because its rate was set at 10%.

    The tithe was only for the church. The real tax was paid to the local government (i.e. the owner of the village, i.e. the "lord") and it was a tax in the form of work called serfdom - but in fact it was not heavy ( what is very important - it was counted on the family / on the house , not per person) - a peasant who had 5 stout sons sent from two to two days' wages to the master in the field, and if with a horse, even for one, and they had the weekly tax paid. The peasant did not pay any other taxes (only the church and the lord). However, the nobleman (i.e. the lord) paid taxes - he paid the king's officials (to whom he was formally subject as a subject) - In Poland, these taxes were low (as in a noble state, not a royal state) ;) ). There were also customs duties and tolls (probably the equivalent of VAT ;) ) - you paid for the transport of goods by river, road, bridge, across the border - as long as the officials were able to control the routes, they pulled, besides, off the routes it was easy to get hit in the head ;) and on the road the soldiers were hanging around and scaring off the bandits, so it's a form of payment for security.
    Quote:

    So it was already under King Solomon, as well as after. And today yellow book thieves' eyes invented another tax. I'm not even talking about the rates.

    Under King Solomon (also much earlier) it was protection money "for security" - nothing formal - some soldier of the king would come look around the fields "richly" he thought and valued the tax, and then under the threat of losing wealth you had to pay ;) This was still the case under Mieszko - who did not do any great state work - but established a sphere of influence in collecting tribute by the Piasts ;) And then, out of habit, everyone said that these were Piast lands...
    Quote:

    In many countries in the world, there is no VAT and despite this, societies function and people have money to buy food and clothes. So much for the topic.

    Here's the list - I looked at those "many countries without VAT" - I found that "many" is in the third world ;)
    http://cenytransferowe.org/transfer-ceny-na-s...tax-and-vat-tax-rates-in-different-countries/
  • #17 17762167
    yogi009
    Level 43  
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    I look at Switzerland and I think that if you want you can.
  • #18 17762364
    also
    Level 15  
    Posts: 609
    Rate: 77
    Chris_W wrote:
    under threat of loss of wealth had to pay
    Well, and today you won't lose your property if you don't pay tribute to the virtual state? I forget that in the past there was no tax on water, sewage, carbon dioxide, for driving on highways built for the taxpayer, etc. :D Today you are born a slave to give 50% of your income to the state under pain of imprisonment :D The state can do anything to you including taking your life (they will force you to go to war)
  • #19 17762764
    lisek2
    Level 11  
    Posts: 12
    Rate: 35
    Ha - I expected such answers - thank you very much for the substantive comments. Regards.
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the legal implications of declaring a different country for VAT purposes when purchasing a VPN service, specifically NORDVPN. Users debate whether indicating "other" to avoid Polish VAT (23%) constitutes fraud or tax evasion. Some argue that since the service is purchased and used outside Poland, Polish VAT may not apply. Others caution that misrepresenting one's location could lead to legal consequences. The conversation also touches on broader themes of tax obligations and the legitimacy of purchasing services from countries with lower VAT rates.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Poland’s VAT is 23%, and "VAT is a tax on final consumption." For EU digital services like VPNs, VAT is charged where you live; masking your location won’t change liability. This FAQ helps Polish/EU users buy online services correctly and avoid risk. [OECD, 2022]

Why it matters: Misstating your location can breach terms and trigger tax corrections; knowing the rules keeps costs predictable and compliant.

Quick Facts

  • Since 2015, EU digital services (TBE) are taxed where the customer resides; OSS/Non‑Union OSS streamline reporting. [European Commission, 2021]
  • Poland’s standard VAT is 23%; a €100 VPN billed to a Polish consumer should include €23 VAT. [European Commission, 2023]
  • Non‑EU sellers must charge EU VAT at the customer’s rate; consumers usually don’t self‑assess VAT on B2C e‑services. [European Commission, 2021]
  • Schengen status is irrelevant to VAT; citizenship doesn’t matter—residence determines VAT on digital services. [European Commission, 2021]

Is it legal to select “other country” to avoid VAT on a VPN?

No. For EU consumers, VAT on digital services is due where you usually live. Selecting a false billing country misrepresents your location and conflicts with EU place‑of‑supply rules. Providers must apply VAT using customer‑location evidence. Pay VAT in your country of residence to stay compliant and avoid contract issues. [European Commission, 2021]

Where is VAT due for online services like VPNs bought in the EU?

For telecommunications, broadcasting, and electronically supplied services, VAT is due in the EU Member State where the consumer is located. This applies whether the seller is in or outside the EU, and regardless of where their servers sit. Sellers use OSS or Non‑Union OSS to remit VAT to the correct country. [European Commission, 2021]

Does using a VPN or foreign IP change the VAT you owe?

No. IP address is only one piece of location evidence. Sellers must rely on multiple, non‑contradictory indicators (e.g., billing address, bank details) to determine customer location. When indicators conflict, the seller must obtain additional evidence before applying VAT. A masked IP won’t legitimately move your tax location. [European Commission, 2015]

I’m in Poland—should my VPN price include the Polish VAT rate?

Yes, if you are a Polish resident buying as a consumer. The provider should include local VAT in the price at checkout. If you buy as a VAT‑registered business, different B2B rules can apply, often via reverse charge. Always ensure your billing profile reflects your true status. [European Commission, 2021]

Does citizenship matter for VAT on digital services?

No. VAT depends on where you reside or are established, not your nationality. A non‑Polish citizen living in Poland pays Polish VAT on B2C digital services. Conversely, a Polish citizen residing in another EU country pays that country’s VAT. The rule focuses on customer location. [European Commission, 2021]

Does Schengen or traveling change how VAT is applied?

Schengen has no bearing on VAT rules. For B2C digital services, the place of supply is tied to your usual residence, not border controls or short‑term travel. Sellers assess consistent evidence to determine your location and apply the correct VAT. [European Commission, 2015]

The seller didn’t add VAT—will I be liable later?

For B2C digital services in the EU, the supplier is responsible for charging and remitting VAT. If they fail to collect VAT, authorities typically pursue the supplier. However, giving false location details can breach terms and may lead to adjustments or account actions. Keep invoices and pay where you live. [European Commission, 2021]

How do I fix a wrong VAT charge on my VPN invoice?

Use this quick process:
  1. Update your account billing address and country to your true residence.
  2. If you’re a business, add a valid EU VAT number and confirm it via VIES.
  3. Ask the provider’s billing team for a corrected invoice or credit note. This aligns your VAT with your proper status. [European Commission, 2023]

Does it matter where the contract is concluded or which bank I pay from?

For B2C digital services, VAT is based on your residence, not where you click “Buy” or your bank’s country. Payment details can serve as one location indicator, but they are not decisive alone. Sellers must rely on consistent evidence before applying VAT. [European Commission, 2015]

If I buy physical goods in Germany, do I owe Polish VAT later?

For personal purchases of goods you carry home within the EU, you pay VAT in the country of purchase. You do not re‑pay VAT in Poland at the border. This differs from digital services, which are taxed where the customer resides. [European Commission, 2021]

What’s the €10,000 micro‑business edge case I keep hearing about?

There is a small‑seller cross‑border threshold (€10,000 annual B2C EU sales) allowing certain micro‑businesses to apply home‑country VAT. Large providers usually exceed it and must charge your country’s VAT. This rule affects sellers’ reporting, not consumers’ obligations. [European Commission, 2021]

Are VPN services ever VAT‑exempt or zero‑rated in the EU?

No general exemption applies. VPNs are electronically supplied services and are normally taxed at the standard VAT rate of the customer’s country. Exemptions are narrow and do not cover commercial VPN subscriptions. Expect standard‑rate VAT unless your invoice shows a lawful B2B reverse charge. [European Commission, 2021]

How do providers verify your location for VAT even if my IP looks foreign?

They collect two consistent pieces of evidence, such as billing address, bank location, IP, or mobile country code. If indicators disagree, the seller must seek more evidence before deciding the place of supply. This safeguards correct VAT application despite VPN masking. [European Commission, 2015]

What is VAT in simple terms, and how high are EU rates?

"VAT is a tax on final consumption." Standard VAT rates across the EU typically range from about 17% to 27%. That spread explains why consumers notice price differences across borders, but you are charged the rate where you live for digital services. [OECD, 2022]

I moved to another EU country—how should I update VAT with my VPN provider?

Change your billing address and country to the new residence in your account. Provide any requested proof of usual residence so the seller can update the place of supply. Future invoices should then reflect the new country’s VAT rate under EU rules. [European Commission, 2015]
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