Connecting the protective conductor with the neutral in the TN-C network

adwlodar wrote:

Devices (then) were grounded locally?

No shock protection was used.

adwlodar wrote:

what about the first electric irons? Someone tell this, please

The irons had a 2-wire cord and did not have anti-shock protection.
Cooking machines with an exposed spiral were sold.
I have repaired these many times.
The first consumer requiring protection was the Frania washing machine.
(1959-1960)
The blocks were grounded to the pipe - it was an effective protection.
Later.
The second receiver that required grounding was the refrigerator.

Radios had transformers, TVs without transformers were made of the 2nd class.

Hello.
I assure you that the mentioned irons had anti-shock protection.
It was called insulation and proper enclosure.

kkas12 wrote:

My friend does not know that equalizing connections, and therefore the grounding of the neutral wire, have been in force in this country since 1968.

Haha, that`s not the only thing that gets grounded. EVERY NETWORK IS GROUNDED - right next to the transformer

kkas12 wrote:

My friend also does not know that it is not about the grounding (in new installations) of the PEN division, but about the grounding of the PE conductor. However, this should be done at the beginning of the installation, not at the end.

In new installations, no, if it is a TN S network. Otherwise - in TN C installations, yes. This is about grounding the PEN division (because if I`m not mistaken, we take the N and PE wires from the PEN division) :-D

You`re right about the equalizing connections. You should not make local equipotential bonding without having main connections

Moderated By Krzysztof Reszka:

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CYRUS2 wrote:

The irons had a 2-wire cord and did not have anti-shock protection.

And I think they also had this third protective wire connecting the iron through the heating cap with two plates on its side.


As far back as I can remember, it should have looked like this, because even pre-war irons had photos that prove it. And the fact that home electricians did not provide what they should have done was a different story.

Because the author should write clearly:
- if the receivers (irons in this case) had a 2-wire cable, the protection against electric shock was implemented in the same way as modern receivers. in protection class II
- if there was a 3-core cable, protection was provided either by protective zeroing in the installation or by grounding the housing terminal to e.g. water pipes.
As for the machines - there are still heating inserts for tiled stoves with "open spirals".
Nothing new.

Jamesbond664478 wrote:

Haha, that`s not the only thing that gets grounded. EVERY NETWORK IS GROUNDED - right next to the transformer

Distinguish between a network and an installation. In this thread, we are not interested in networks. Moreover, the PEN may break, so this is not a fairy tale from this thread because it is the responsibility of the energy supplier and not the contractor installing the building.
So it is advisable that you first read sheet 5-54 and then write posts about electrical installations in the facility.

Jamesbond664478 wrote:

In new installations, no, if it is a TN S network. Otherwise - in TN C installations, yes. This is about grounding the PEN division (because if I`m not mistaken, we take the N and PE wires from the PEN division)

You`re talking nonsense. Because even if the PEN division was made in a cable connector distant from the building, the PE bus in the building should still be earthed. But this rail is at the beginning of the installation.
Therefore, the common opinion about grounding the PEN division is a myth. Describe how to ground such a place when it is located on the tenth floor and the power supply contains three phases and PEN?

Jamesbond664478 wrote:

You should not make local equipotential bonding without having main connections

You keep repeating and you don`t know why.

Jamesbond664478 wrote:

EVERY NETWORK IS GROUNDED - right next to the transformer

Not true .

kkas12 wrote:

Therefore, the common opinion about grounding the PEN division is a myth. Describe how to ground such a place when it is located on the tenth floor and the power supply contains three phases and PEN?

I don`t want to start a worthless conversation on this topic again, but I recently remembered during a LIVE broadcast of a certain YouTuber-electrician that it was said that you should pull a cooper in the shaft together with WLZ and the problem be solved... and interestingly, this theory has mass of supporters.

There was once a theory that, together with the five-wire wlz, the cooperage should be run along the floors. It was ordered to connect local equalization connections to it, which was obvious nonsense, because it did not guarantee that external and accessible parts would have the same potential.
Once, one of the inspectors demanded that I cover metal door frames in apartments with local connections. I told him that I would do it when he made the appropriate entry in the construction log. The entry did not appear, so this man`s request remained in the sphere of his unfulfilled dreams.

And the supporters of this theory are as stupid as the theory itself, because each era (as you can see) has its "discoverers".

kkas12 wrote:

There was once a theory that, together with the five-wire wlz, the cooperage should be run along the floors. It was ordered to connect local equalization connections to it, which was obvious nonsense, as it did not guarantee that external and accessible parts would have the same potential.

How about a lightning wire as PE?

It`s just a sculpture

But it`s four-wire as I see it

That`s right.

Here you have 5x + hoop iron:


And here is an even stranger creation - PE bis, only for grounding the shaft structure:

Oh, then joyful creativity was in full bloom.
It was a golden age for various types of home repairers.
Thank God it lasted so short.

kkas12 wrote:

Jamesbond664478 wrote:
In new installations, no, if it is a TN S network. Otherwise, in TN C installations, yes. This is about grounding the PEN division (because if I`m not mistaken, we take the N and PE wires from the PEN division)

kkas12 wrote:

You`re talking nonsense. Because even if the PEN division was made in a cable connector distant from the building, the PE bus in the building should still be earthed.

kkas12 wrote:

Describe how to ground such a place when it is located on the tenth floor and the power supply contains three phases and PEN?

The same as grounding the PE bus located on the tenth floor, and the wlz contains three phases and PEN

Added after 2 [minutes]:

kkas12 wrote:

Therefore, the common opinion about grounding the PEN division is a myth.

Oh, probably not :-\ Although grounding the PEN division is not obligatory, it is still performed

Moderated By Łukasz-O:

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Jamesbond664478 wrote:

The same as grounding the PE bus located on the tenth floor, and the wlz contains three phases and PEN

Yes, but according to... You?