Can the radiator be completely shut off with a thermostatic valve?

Basically, my question is as in the title (I can`t find the answer anywhere, it`s probably somewhere, but I find a lot of similar topics):

Can the radiator be completely shut off with a thermostatic valve?

By the way, the second question - if the valve in front of the radiator at the input is closed, should the water not drain from it after some time and should it be empty? The question is whether, if the water is turned off at the entrance, can the radiator be removed without fear that water will flow from the outlet - this applies to standard heating, the so-called What about the network in the block - I want to replace the radiators.

Additionally: the cooperative does not allow the installation of valves (except thermostatic valves). I already know what it`s about - automatic opening when the temperature drops appropriately. Can I install such a thermostatic valve on the outlet and, if necessary (e.g. renovation, radiator replacement), completely turn off the outlet with it?

adam.krakus wrote:

Can a thermostatic valve completely shut off the radiator?

you can, but only from the power supply side - i.e. hot water.

adam.krakus wrote:

if the valve in front of the radiator is closed at the entrance, shouldn`t the water drain from it after some time and it should be empty. The question is whether, if the water is turned off at the entrance, can the radiator be removed without fear that water will flow from the outlet - this applies to standard heating, the so-called What about the network in the block - I want to replace the radiators.

Unfortunately, water will flow in from behind.

Okay... but if you can thermostatically close the entrance, then:
1. Is this done first by setting it to 0 or does the valve need to be secured somehow?*
2. If I install such a valve at the outlet - can it be closed? If so, shouldn`t it prevent water from flowing in from the outlet?

* I don`t understand how the thermostatic valve works... if it can be closed with hot water, why not with cold water? After all, complete closure is complete closure(?).

1 is closed to "0".
2, shut-off valves are installed at the output, which are useful when replacing radiators.

Yes, there must also be a valve on the return. Without it, you cannot remove the radiator when the installation is filled with water. The thermostatic valve in the supply should close the supply, unless it is a valve in which it is not possible to completely close it, but only up to +16 degrees (but if = despite turning off the heating - it was over 16 degrees in the room anyway, it will close). Remember that the pressure is not only on the supply, but also on the return.

stanislaw1954 wrote:

2, shut-off valves are installed at the output, which are useful when replacing radiators.

Are these valves also thermostatic? This question may sound stupid... but in a letter from the cooperative I received information that only such valves can be installed. In other words: is there a thermostatic valve at the outlet so that I can easily cut off the radiator and remove it?

There are no thermostatic valves on the return (it makes no sense), one on the supply is enough.
Send a letter to the cooperative stating that you want to install a thermostatic valve on the supply and a shut-off valve on the return. What will they reply?

"due to installation measurement, it is not allowed to install cut-off valves in the installation before radiators (does not apply to valves with thermostatic heads)"
Exactly something like that. This is probably to avoid removing the radiator, etc. in order to avoid fees... they officially informed me that it has a bad technical impact on the installation (places where scale is deposited; the plumbers laughed at it). That`s why I want to install a thermostatic one, open it permanently and cover it and close if necessary.

On the other hand, I don`t know how to interpret it either. In front of the radiator it may as well mean the entrance, and the exit is "behind the radiator"(?).

adam.krakus wrote:

in connection with installation measurement it is not allowed to install cut-off valves in the installation before radiators (does not apply to valves with thermostatic heads) "

Exactly something like that.

Added after 1 [minute]:

adam.krakus wrote:

open it permanently and seal it

Now it`s me who doesn`t understand.

adam.krakus wrote:

In front of the radiator it may as well mean the entrance, and the exit is "behind the radiator"(?).

Just like that.

In my opinion, if you install a thermostatic valve on the drain (outlet) of the radiator, you will bypass their regulation, because they did not foresee it.
All you have to do is empty the installation of water.
Moreover, each radiator, except Favier and cast iron finned radiators, is equipped with a valve at the outlet (outlet) to hydraulically balance the installation.
They can`t stop you from doing it.

These return valves are not intended to balance the installation (orificating), as this is done in the supply via a thermostatic valve. Rather, these return valves are intended to enable the radiator to be isolated from the installation in the event of damage and leakage, without having to drain the water from the entire installation. The probability of a leak in the case of a cast iron radiator is close to zero (these radiators are durable), so there was no need to use shut-off valves on the return (but, for example, a Faviera radiator may rust, but it is still more durable than a panel radiator and can withstand much higher pressure).

adam.krakus wrote:

"due to installation measurement, it is not allowed to install cut-off valves in the installation before radiators (does not apply to valves with thermostatic heads)"
Exactly something like that. This is probably to avoid removing the radiator, etc. in order to avoid fees... they officially informed me that it has a bad technical impact on the installation (places where scale is deposited; the plumbers laughed at it). That`s why I want to install a thermostatic one, open it permanently and cover it and close if necessary.

On the other hand, I don`t know how to interpret it either. In front of the radiator it may as well mean the entrance, and the exit is "behind the radiator"(?).

This is probably, as you have figured out, to prevent combinations with replacing radiators during the heating season. A shut-off valve on the supply (it can also be thermostatic, as long as it is not blocked at 16 degrees), and especially on the return, would enable a quick replacement of the radiator.

There are probably dividers and the smarter ones would have 2 sets of radiators. With a divider for the basement and a second radiator without a divider for the heating season.

Now he won`t do anything anyway, maybe he will flood his apartment. He must wait for the end of the heating season and information from the cooperative that the central heating has been emptied of water.

There is also an element of the ban on "not heating" in cooperatives, apart from replacing radiators. Tenants are forced to collect heat so as not to heat the apartment with the heat of surrounding neighbors. This means that radiators cannot be removed. There was a court judgment in this case.

Sure... I understand the legal issues...

the problem is that it would be enough to put some seals on these valves to avoid the above, and access to the radiators is then "immediate" if necessary.

palmus wrote:

There is also an element of the ban on "not heating" in cooperatives, apart from replacing radiators. Tenants are forced to collect heat so as not to heat the apartment with the heat of surrounding neighbors. This means that radiators cannot be removed. There was a court judgment in this case.

What if someone wants to paint the wall behind the radiator?

Zbigniew Rusek wrote:

What if someone wants to paint the wall behind the radiator?

A perverse question - everyone is allowed, but if only a thermostatic valve is allowed, which, however, does not close below 16 degrees, even if a shut-off valve is installed on the return, it is still impossible to remove the radiator without draining the water from the system or freezing the pipes.

stanislaw1954 wrote:

Zbigniew Rusek wrote:

What if someone wants to paint the wall behind the radiator?

A perverse question - everyone is allowed, but if only a thermostatic valve is allowed, which, however, does not close below 16 degrees, even if a shut-off valve is installed on the return, it is still impossible to remove the radiator without draining the water from the system or freezing the pipes.

This would be possible if the temperature in the room - despite the heater being turned off - is definitely above +16 degrees, and this - contrary to appearances - may even occur in winter, especially when there is sunlight on a high floor or when the rooms next to it are heated. The temperature in an unheated room located in a heated building is different from that when the entire building is unheated.