Facade blinds - what to anticipate at the electrical stage so as not to regret l

Hello,
In a newly built house, I plan facade blinds (protection against the sun + the issue of privacy). The choice of motors / controllers / automation / specific brands is still ahead of me.

I will probably start finishing the house with the electrical installation. And here's the question... What to anticipate/plan at this stage (maybe even with a reasonable margin) so as not to regret later that I did not spend PLN 200-300 more when I will be so-called. conscious user.

I'll add in passing:
- I'm after some preliminary talks, which show that Somfy is a very wonderful thing. And some that additionally only IO radio engines.
- Here I have doubts about the radio control method - I've always been convinced that a wire is a wire.
- I think I have a reasonable approach to the idea of a "smart home". No blind control "from anywhere in the world".
On the other hand, I already have a certain automation scenario that I need from some button (not a remote control, not a smartphone). Maybe the needs will develop… as in life.

So I repeat ... what to predict at the electrical stage and before plastering?

You definitely need to pull the LN PE to the motor if it has a built-in motor with a radio receiver

You lead to the blinds, 4x1.5mm^2. All to a central place. There's a little extra switch over there.
If there is a radio control, it doesn't change anything, but if you dream of a smart home or an alarm, such a solution is very flexible in reconstruction.

Thanks for the votes. Just remember that I plan facade blinds , NO blinds.

Venetian blinds and roller shutters are driven in the same way, only the motors look different.
4 wires: protective, neutral and two phase (up and down)

If you lead to 4x1.5 blinds, it will be enough and will allow you to use both radio and wired motors. However, due to the Hirschmann connectors (and cable gland) used, the cable should be in round insulation and preferably a cord (e.g. 4x1.0)
Recently, I installed/configured one with Elero control and motor.
Motor with built-in JA Comfort 868 radio receiver and 6-channel remote controls from the COM series. It is possible to precisely control the tilt of the slats using the touchpad, turn on the solar automation, remember the comfortable position, etc., etc. Of course, two-way communication.
In this case, a 3-wire installation is sufficient. You only need to make a bridge in the Hirschmann connector (the motor is factory equipped with such).


https://youtu.be/jxPRs4kOQ8A

gaspaccio wrote:

You lead to the blinds, 4x1.5mm^2. All to a central place. There's a little extra switch over there.

I understand that the alternative is to pull these wires to the main switchboard?

What is the advantage of such a "central place - a small additional switchgear"?

Added after 2 [minutes]:

Marek J. wrote:

[...] round insulation and most conveniently [...]

Is it about the comfort of installation work in cans?

Wix wrote:

I understand that the alternative is to pull these wires to the main switchboard?

If you want to have each blind on a separate protection, then yes. However, it seems to me that one protection of the perimeter of facade blinds is enough.

Wix wrote:

What is the advantage of such a "central place - a small additional switchgear"?

Only that you can install a central control system for all blinds, which seems logical in the case of roller shutters, but not very practical for façades (unless you plan an "intelligent" system integrated in the switchgear).

Wix wrote:

Is it about the comfort of installation work in cans?

NO. The point is that the Hirschmann connector has chokes to prevent moisture from getting inside, and it's hard to do it on a flat cable. In addition, the facade blinds have specially designed holders for laying/suspending the cable in the housings and these are adapted to the cable in round insulation...

Marek J. wrote:

(e.g. OWY 4x1.0 is enough)

Here I would not be sure if it is enough, from what I know, the minimum cross-section of the wire in electrical installations is 1.5mm2, but it's better to let someone of my fellow electricians speak.

Wix wrote:

What to anticipate/plan at this stage (maybe even with a reasonable margin) so as not to regret later that I didn't spend PLN 200-300 more when I'm already so-called. conscious user.

Button next to the window to be able to control the blind locally.

Marek J. wrote:

Wix wrote:

I understand that the alternative is to pull these wires to the main switchboard?

If you want to have each blind on a separate protection, then yes. However, it seems to me that one protection of the perimeter of facade blinds is enough.

I do not fully understand ... After all, whether the wires go to the main switchboard or the "small additional switchgear", I can put a separate fuse for each shutter in each of these places.

I do not insist that I need separate protection for each blind (probably I don't even need it if you write like that) but I am trying to grasp the meaning and understand it.

There can't be a 100% clear answer since you wrote:

Wix wrote:

The choice of motors / controllers / automation / specific brands is still ahead of me.

There are different motors and different requirements for power supply, control, etc. Therefore, installations will also be different.
The most universal solution, in my opinion, will be a solution as in the case of roller blinds:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3672233.html#18550566
except for point 6, where in this case a 4x1.0 round cable is sufficient

kood wrote:

Button next to the window to be able to control the blind locally.

Well, that's what I was thinking too. Yes, I rather anticipate that I will want to control each blind locally with a button somewhere next to it.

So, as I understand it, an additional wire from the lintel area to the planned place of the button. Or so? (what wire).

Added after 47 [minutes]:

Wix wrote:

kood wrote:

Button next to the window to be able to control the blind locally.

Well, that's what I was thinking too. Yes, I rather anticipate that I will want to control each blind locally with a button somewhere next to it.

So, as I understand it, an additional wire from the lintel area to the planned place of the button. Or so? (what wire).

Oh, I read...

And out of curiosity. Why did you recommend universal 5x for roller blinds and 4x for blinds?

Wix wrote:

Why did you recommend universal 5x for roller blinds and 4x for blinds?

Because in the subject of roller shutters, a universal solution was also asked for, without indicating a specific model.
And there are motors for roller shutters that are controlled and powered by 5 or even 6 wires (the 6th wire is used rather in awnings for wind and solar automation and in Nice radio motors to control the double-key shutter switch).
I have not come across more than 4 wires in shutter motors. (3 wires in radio motors and 4 wires in traditional and radio motors).

Want universal cabling?
Follow the diagram below.



Only radio-controlled drives require three wires (phase, neutral, protective).
Drives without built-in radio control require four wires (neutral, opening phase, closing phase, protective).
Combination drives have a built-in radio receiver and additional wired control to the local switch - these require five wires from the blind to the switch box.

From the switch box to the switchgear, running a five-core power cable (OWY 5x1) and UTP twisted pair + pocket box (with space for a possible control module) makes such an installation very universal.

As a rule, shutter drives have a piece of cable with a Hirschmann connector. The plug has a gland for a round cable.


Take into account that with radio control, to program the transmitter (remote control or radio wall button), it may be necessary to switch on/off the power supply of a single blind, so separate fuses may make sense in this case.

_ZBYCH_ wrote:

Follow the diagram below.

I was about to ask about the wind sensor, I'm opening a thread and here's the answer I will ask ... wind / sun sensor with what cable to connect?

P.S. Thanks for the detailed answer...

gaspaccio wrote:

You lead to the blinds, 4x1.5mm^2. All to a central place. There's a little extra switch over there.

How many bays in the switchgear should I reserve for such a set of blinds?