[Solved] Central Heating System Pressure Drop: Radiators, Floor Heating & E10 Error on Immergas Victrix 24KW

Hello, the CO installation consists of radiators and floor heating.
The entire installation has been working properly for 6 years, for several days I have a problem with the water pressure in the furnace, it drops to zero and of course the E10 error (Immergas Victrix 24KW) crashes on the gas furnace. I allowed a little water, literally 2-3 liters, and the pressure jumped to 2.5 bar ... then slowly fell. After a few refills, I noticed water at one of the switchboards (to the floor) (as in the picture), it turned out that the red plastic heads were loose, not tightened and water was flowing from one of the lower ones (marked). night and around 11 am again an error on the stove and zero bars ...
Has the installation screwed up?
And why did it flip?
121183004_...5456_n.jpg Download (273.84 kB)

First, of course, vent everything.
2-3 liters a day is a mass of water. Find where the stain is. If it is nowhere to be found, then it may be the boiler itself inside.
The diaphragmatic vessel may also be to blame, giving a similar symptom. But it has a limit, to the loss of your pressure on the diaphragm.

xoree wrote:

And why did it flip?

It's a breather. It is to be released to vent automatically. But if it leaks water, it must be replaced.

The vent caps should be slightly screwed on as you had them.
The vent is either clogged and the float is stuck, you would have to disassemble it and clean it (after draining the water from the system) or you need to buy a new vent. Come on in your case, it seems that you will have to buy a new one.

As for the amount of water, I'm probably exaggerating about 2-3 liters because I run the tap for 1-3 seconds and I have 2 bars ...
Water only leaked from this vent.
How are these systems vented?
As for replacing the breather, it's probably something to do...
As for the diaphragm vessel, it is full of air because I checked if the vents were tight.

Added after 3 [minutes]:

Rafael22 wrote:

The vent caps should be slightly screwed on as you had them.
The vent is either clogged and the float is stuck, you would have to disassemble it and clean it (after draining the water from the system) or you need to buy a new vent. Come on, in your case, it seems that you will have to buy a new one.

But this head was completely unscrewed and water was flowing.
I'm going to go to a hardware store right now and buy a vent.
Something like this ? https://www.leroymerlin.pl/heating/heaters-and-accessories/air vents/air vent-1-2-alpha-white-valvex,p248210,l1012.html

If the pressure is zero and grows very quickly during tapping, the diaphragm vessel is damaged or it should be supplied with air.

There is air in this vessel I checked ... (I tried to pump it up but unfortunately I couldn't because the shading is too big )

Air doesn't mean anything. There may not be enough. The correct measurement should be made with zero water pressure or on a disassembled vessel, because the water pressure introduces measurement error.

And why did it start leaking from this vent? Is this fault related to this vessel?

Vents often break down, but the failure of the vessel has nothing to do with it. Check the vessel carefully, otherwise the pressure in the installation will increase excessively when the furnace is started.

How does this dish work?

xoree wrote:

How does such a dish work?

Colleague Krzys55 described the conditions to you. I will add that you can even measure it with a manometer for the car. The valve is the same.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

xoree wrote:

As for the amount of water, I'm probably exaggerating about 2-3 liters because I run the tap for 1-3 seconds and I have 2 bars

Wait a moment... then you turn on the tap on the water (which? with w? cw?) and at this point the pressure in the circuit drops, what?
Unless I misunderstood your shorthand...

There is a sticker on the vessel with a description of the pressure that should be in the vessel. The rest I described in the previous post.

xoree wrote:

There is air in this vessel I checked ... (I tried to pump it up but unfortunately I couldn't because the shading is too big )

xoree wrote:

How does such a dish work?

This is a great example of when a user thinks they're doing something right
The description of checking the pressure in the vessel is also stuck as one of the threads on the first page.
It is general but reflects the idea of checking.

Typically, the vessel pressure was specified in the boiler specifications and is often 0.75 bar.
There is just 0.75 bar in my boiler, but I pump air to approx. 0.95 bar myself and add up to 1.4 bar on the cold water system.
During operation, the pressure jumps no more than 0.2/0.3 bar, i.e. 1.6/1.7 bar.
In other words, the boiler never reaches the water pressure of 2.0 bar by itself.

janek_wro wrote:

Wait a moment... then you turn on the tap on the water (which? with w? cw?) and at this point the pressure in the circuit drops, what?
Unless I misunderstood your shorthand...

I understood that if it lacks water, i.e. the pressure drops, it unscrews the tap, which is implicitly a valve for filling the installation with water and after 1-3 seconds it has 2.0 bar on the boiler.

Added after 8 [minutes]:

I would say yes.
To check the air pressure in the vessel, drain the water from the boiler and check the air pressure in the vessel on the open drain valve.
If the vessel has a nominal 0.75 bar, it is OK, if it is less, you need to pump up and check for air leakage.
If everything is OK, close the drain valve and add water to the boiler, vent the boiler and the pump and enjoy the efficient boiler and vessel ;)

But the initial pressure in the diaphragm vessel depends on the static height of the central heating system, so it may happen that in an exceptional situation 0.75 bar will be too low pressure.
In most cases, the factory setting of 0.75 bar is sufficient.
For me, 0.75 bar is enough, but I give air around 1.0 bar on my own. After a year, the air drop does not exceed 0.2 bar, so it's OK for me.
I pump the vessel every year during the inspection and cleaning of the boiler, so the problem of the vessel does not seem to exist.
If nothing has been done at the author's for 5-6 years, the vessel has the right to empty.
It's like someone pumping up a tire on a car and expecting it to hold the same amount of air after 5 years. There will always be some loss somewhere, bigger or smaller, but it will be there.

janek_wro wrote:

xoree wrote:

How does such a dish work?

Colleague Krzys55 described the conditions to you. I will add that you can even measure it with a manometer for the car. The valve is the same.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

xoree wrote:

As for the amount of water, I'm probably exaggerating about 2-3 liters because I run the tap for 1-3 seconds and I have 2 bars

Wait a moment... then you turn on the tap on the water (which? with w? cw?) and at this point the pressure in the circuit drops, what?
Unless I misunderstood your shorthand...

I mean a tap for admitting water to the CO system.

xoree wrote:

(I tried to pump it up but unfortunately I couldn't because the shading is too big

Probably there is no air at all and the membrane is glued to the vessel wall.

So that's how I checked the number of bars in the 3.9 Bar vessel.
I filled the system with water and it is 1.8 bar (the pressure holds).
If there was a leak, I think it would be gone by now...?
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I checked the pressure in the vessel when the water in the system was not yet filled ...

xoree wrote:

So that's how I checked the number of bars in the 3.9 Bar vessel.

but this is a Refix DE 18 vessel for utility water, i.e. hot water if you have a hot water tank
For the heating circuit there is a separate vessel, usually with a capacity of 6-10 l, it is built into the boiler.
If someone has a large-capacity installation, an additional vessel is used somewhere outside the boiler, and then you have to watch the pressure in the built-in and additional vessel, or the built-in vessel is disconnected and one with the required capacity for a given installation is used.
The vessel for the circulation which has, as I wrote, e.g. 0.75 bar, not 3.9 bar.
This is how a layman deals with things about which he has absolutely no clue.
I am also an amateur but when I read threads like this I feel like a professional with 30 years of experience

You know, I understand you very well ... I try to help repair the motherboard in a laptop myself sometimes, but sometimes it's unrealistic and now I know why.
Understatement barak knowledge etc ... no one told me that this vessel is in the cauldron ...
BTW...
How to check this vessel in the boiler??

xoree wrote:

How to check this vessel in the boiler??

As it was above.

You need to determine where you have this vessel.
It's best to download the installation manual for your boiler, then you will have a diagram.
In my boiler, the vessel is on the back wall, i.e. from the side of the load-bearing wall on which the boiler is suspended.
It can have a round or rectangular shape, I had a factory-made 10-litre cherry/red rectangular vessel.
Currently, I have an 8l replacement vessel, round, gray in color, which hangs on the wall next to the boiler and is connected with a flexible steel hose to the place where the original vessel was connected.
In my boiler, access to the original vessel was without removing the casing, but the valve is at the very top of the boiler, next to the flue pipe and so close to the wall that not every manometer was physically able to measure the pressure.
I don't know about your boiler.
Determine the location of your vessel and where it has a valve for making up air. Then you need to repeat the operation by draining the water from the boiler and check the air pressure in the vessel with the open drain valve for draining the water from the boiler. For the vessel what I take 0.75 bar as a minimum and 1.0 bar as a maximum for the initial air pressure.

This question was a joke.
On Monday, a guest is coming to me who is doing furnace inspections ... I talked to him and he said that we will cover the subject ...
He'll do a review, etc...
Of course, when the matter is clarified, I will write what and how ...
For now, thank you all for your time.

kz61 wrote:

Probably there is no air at all and the membrane is glued to the vessel wall.

If you have the variant that kz61 wrote about, it may turn out that the membrane has been damaged and self-inflation may not be enough.
In the worst case, you will have to replace the vessel with a new one or install a replacement next to the boiler.
If you're lucky, just inflate the vessel and you'll be fine.

Added after 3 [minutes]:

xoree wrote:

This question was a joke.

you can handle the topic of the diaphragm vessel yourself, but you need to know the basics, and if not, you need to learn them quickly. Practice makes perfect, so beginnings are always difficult.
Sometimes the valve is damaged, so preventively get yourself a valve for a car wheel to rule out the fault on the valve side. To replace the valve, you need a special key, the same as for replacing valves in car wheels, which can be purchased for a few / over a dozen zlotys.

You know, I was most afraid that one of the PEX's fell off the floor and I will be hammering the tiles ... But rather not, because now the pressure is stable, if there was a leak in the floor, there is no pressure that would not hold. I would definitely start seeing water leaks and I flew around the house and can't see anything inside or out.
Of course, I will also replace the vent that was leaking.

Lack of air in the vessel means that after the water is heated by the boiler, the pressure exceeds the allowable range and the safety valve opens.
If you have a safety valve connected to the sewer, you can't even see the leak from the safety valve and hence the effect of no water stain.
The safety valve for which is nominally 3.0 bar, but apparently the standard allows a tolerance of 0.5 bar, so the safety valve can start releasing water at a pressure of 2.5 bar.
Therefore, the diaphragm vessel is an important element that should be checked, if not every year, at least every few years, but often people neglect their boilers and installations and react only when problems arise.

I think I have a valve connected to the sewer...
20201009_1..825.jpg Download (945.53 kB)

if you have a condensing boiler, it may be the condensate discharge to the sewer, so it is not necessarily the pipe from the safety valve.
Never mind. A specialist will come to you, he will do what is needed and roughly it should be OK.

The problem was on the side of the dish in the oven after draining the water and finishing the air the subject returned to normal.

The problem was on the side of the dish in the oven after draining the water and finishing the air the subject returned to normal.

Added after 41 [seconds]:

Thank you all for your help