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My OFF-GRID 880W installation in a single-family house - independent of the ener

Kubik26 24957 44
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  • #31 19966494
    marcinpr3
    Level 2  
    I've also done the off-grid theme. Someone once wrote here that building something like this is fun for people who have nothing to spend money on and these days we don't have electricity for 2-3 hours? And these are sacred words.
    I was about to spend 6,000 because I was also keen on it. Fortunately, I only bought two new agm 100Ah batteries and the IPS1000sin power supply, which is probably the best on the market in terms of configuration. You can set the multi-range charging current, the battery discharge voltage from perhaps 9v to 11.5V, the charging voltage, e.g. up to 13.5V, so as not to overcharge the battery and many others. Conscription for the so-called standby 5W. bypass etc. And it does the job, if there is no electricity, the TV, some lighting and the stove work for 10 hours, I don't really care about anything else, because I pay PLN 130 a month for electricity - so it's not a fortune. I was more concerned with the comfort of living because I have three ladies at home and they are afraid of the dark (wife and daughters).
    I had already bought 3 330W panels (but I canceled the shipment) cost PLN 2300, I wanted an inverter sinus pro 1500s with Volt PLN 1500, these two batteries PLN 1200, mounting rails, cables and the rest 500. And probably something else would pop up.
    I calculated it and say this: pay for the pv system PLN 3000-3500 just to charge the battery? stupidity. and here's why:
    1. batteries have a limited number of cycles that you wouldn't buy with 24h daily use 2-3 years and beyond. There is no more 1200PLN.
    2. the electricity that these panels produced, let's say for free in good conditions, is so common sense: you could connect a receiver with a power of 200W, above that it was already selected from the battery.
    3. the converter from Volt, but not only (this parameter is often not specified by the manufacturer) takes a lot of current both in standby and even more so during operation. What's the point: let's assume I have a TV connected to off grid permanently. I use it, say, 12 hours a day. 8 hours during the day, let's say "for free" and 4 hours after dark using the energy stored in the battery. The batteries will be recharged at night through the mains converter, because they cannot be discharged for a long time - this will shorten their life. After calculation, it turns out that recharging the batteries through the inverter at night is more expensive than the money saved on electricity while the TV set worked at 8 hz pv. (a super simplified example to understand how it works)
    3. We usually assemble such a device ourselves (if anyone has any idea), but we often use knowledge from the net. Well, remember that we assemble the converter, e.g. in the garage. We do not know this device, it is under voltage all the time, there may be a short circuit, e.g. due to an error in calculations, or incorrectly selected panels, cables, resistance calculations, etc. In short, it can cause a fire. There are a lot of flammable things in the garage or basement - you have to ask yourself is it worth it? for a toy for a few thousand, which in fact brings negligible benefits or even losses?
    4, yes, you can disconnect the converter from DC and rely only on pv, but as I said, expensive batteries in such a concept will fail quickly, we have different weather, there are months that these batteries would be charged for 3 - 4 days. total nonsense.

    Conclusions:
    Off grid is a good thing but future-proof. Components are currently too expensive and inefficient. They will never pay off, because when we start, in an optimistic vision, to break even, it will turn out that we need to replace the panels, converters and certainly the batteries and we are still 5,000 in the red. A bit of a vicious circle.
    That's why I bought myself a capacious warehouse in the form of 200Ah. A good power supply that takes a little power in standby, and actually it is turned off (I only check the battery charge from time to time) I turn it on when bad weather, winds, power outages are forecast.
    Remember that a system like mine can always be expanded. All you need to do is buy a good MPPT regulator and panels.
    And who knows, maybe one day I'll do it - if it's all a bit more common, because it's completely unprofitable at the moment.
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  • #32 19966542
    msr99
    Level 20  
    marcinpr3 wrote:
    They will never pay off, because when we start, in an optimistic vision, to break even, it will turn out that we need to replace the panels, converters and certainly the batteries and we are still 5,000 in the red. A bit of a vicious circle.


    In my opinion, 80% of people here don't do it to get back because they probably never will. Just for fun, because it's possible, etc.. Have you counted when your investment will pay off for such a hobby.
  • #33 19966565
    kadexorek
    Level 3  
    In my opinion, the installation will pay for itself at the moment, provided that:

    - if we buy PV at a good price or used panels in good condition, I recently bought 20 180W mono panels for PLN 160 each, they keep the parameters and are of decent quality, not some modern CIGS, which even new probably will never pay off (is it off or ongrid) will only scatter on the roof after 4 winters
    - if we build a battery (powerwall) from recycled 18650 cells ourselves, then we pay about PLN 500-600 for 1kWh and this is a reasonable price, because such a battery. it will work quietly for a minimum of 5 years, and defective cells can be replaced and it will last for 10-12 years
    - if we buy a hybrid inverter also at a good price on aliexpress (and not from some Polish AZO type distributors), when buying a promotion from a Chinese we have the same equipment for 40-50% of the price of what the Polish distributor calls

    And that's it on the subject. It will pay back only to those who can think and calculate and want to sit on the 18650 and make a battery.

    In addition, in the context of what is currently happening in the world, don't be surprised when people with off-grid will be the only ones with cheap electricity, and ongrid will somehow be blocked by our "elites". The blocked Russian coal and the much more expensive Polish coal will do their job. Whether it's discounts or net-billing - I expect surprises here, and subsequent installations at the neighbors only increase the problem of switching off the inverters. My friend's ongrid works only 50% of the time, because he lives among new houses, where every other house has PV.
  • #34 19966618
    marcinpr3
    Level 2  
    That's right - people were attracted to on-grid photovoltaics, but no one mentioned that the lines would be overloaded, and no one plans to replace transformers. This is a modern trend, the effects of which we will discuss in a few years in retrospect.
    I am for green energy, but in my opinion we are now at the video stage. i.e. once in the 80s we bought a video to watch something from wow tapes and it was madness and disbelief. Now you have everything in a little chip in your phone and you don't want to see it anyway - :)

    Added after 1 [hours] 17 [minutes]:

    msr99 wrote:
    marcinpr3 wrote:
    They will never pay off, because when we start, in an optimistic vision, to break even, it will turn out that we need to replace the panels, converters and certainly the batteries and we are still 5,000 in the red. A bit of a vicious circle.


    In my opinion, 80% of people here don't do it to get back because they probably never will. Just for fun, because it's possible, etc.. Have you counted when your investment will pay off for such a hobby.



    My investment in money will not pay off, but while minimizing costs, I achieve the intended goal, which is the supply of electricity in the event of "W" and thus improving the comfort of life. In other words, I could spend PLN 6000 and I spent 2200 and the effect was the same if not better. And if we assume that there will be no electricity in the network at all - well, it's the end of the world :-) The 3800 that are left, as I recalculated, are better spent on e.g. a sofa set, new rims for the car, a new TV set, something that will be tangible and give pleasure. But it's a matter of approach.
    Of course, I do not question the issue of hobbies, everyone does what they like and spends money on what they want.
    I just wanted to dispel the topic a bit that hurray I will buy panels, batteries and an inverter and I will have electricity for free - because it's a lie.
    Yes, to a motorhome or a plot to have light and a laptop, it's like this, but to replace the AC network with an off-grid at home in its entirety is a topic in its infancy.
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  • #35 19966885
    Maverick73
    Level 36  
    Off grid is a topic and it depends on how you approach it. I read some interesting literature on the subject here.
    Well, everyone learns from mistakes and the fact that I sent my first batteries into space after not a whole year, good with only 2x45Ah ... but now I'm going to take the current 10 years, that's what the manufacturer gives, okay 8 years is enough :D

    As for the return of my installation, I am ... optimistic :)
  • #36 19966918
    qropatwa
    Level 22  
    Kubik26 wrote:
    it controls a relay that switches specific receiver circuits to power from photovoltaics (if the voltage from my "power plant" flows), instead of the power grid. Similarly, if my home "power plant" is not working, it is automatically switched to power from the power grid


    What if you have PV yield but need more power than available?
  • #37 19967956
    kadexorek
    Level 3  
    That's why there are batteries that store energy during a lower consumption than the PV provides, to use it and "match" power from the battery. when, for example, PV gives 1000W, and we need 1300W at the moment, so 300W goes with the battery.
  • #38 20257435
    zbigmen
    Level 13  
    I would like to complete such equipment for today's times so that my off-grid installation powers only devices with low power consumption at home: lighting, monitoring, sliding gate, TV sets and computers, routers, etc., i.e. 230V devices. Possibly heating the hot water tank in the summer. Washing machines, refrigerators, dishwashers, electric cookers, deep fryers, coffee makers will probably not work. My installation is currently in the design phase: 10-12 panels, 400W each, 16 LiFePo batteries, 320A each, connected in a 24V system, a solar inverter that will charge batteries in the 24V system. 24V to 230V voltage converter with a power of 12kW (I prefer to have power reserve). Of course, additional controllers, fuses, switching stations and current and power meters, off grid power switches and electricity supplier (I have Tauron). 640Ax24V batteries will give a power of 15360W. It is known that this is a theory, but let them give 14000W and that is 14kilowatts per hour. Converting this to 230V and maintaining the power of 14kWh gives us an hour of operation of the entire installation with a load of 60A. Let's say that we use 10A or 2300W at 230V. There will be enough electricity for 6 hours of work. I hope I'm thinking correctly and I'm counting. The cost of the whole thing with independent work and assembly is about PLN 15,000 nowadays. Is it worth it counting the winter months? and when I will be financially at zero. Instead of LiFePo batteries, you can look for a cheaper alternative on the domestic market, e.g. with an armored traction anode for forklift trucks. The cheapest energy storage is the basis for success. The price of 1 kWh is PLN 0.79 x 2.3kWh = PLN 1,817 per day. Optimally multiplying x 365 days = PLN 663 and PLN 0.20. In turn, multiplying it by the costs of the entire investment, the whole will pay off after 22 years and over half a year. Profitable? In the summer with the right amount of and panels, such a system could make an off-grid cycle twice during a long day, because the discharged battery system will recharge, let's say, by 10.00 am it will give power and then by 6.00 p.m. it will recharge and in the evening the night will return the reserve to my grid. But it is better to assume that for the whole year there will be one full charging cycle. I haven't yet taken into account the voltage of the batteries at which the system will cut off the power from them. Let's say it will be safe 22-23V. And will these 6 hours of operation still be realistic then.
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  • #39 20257462
    michalPV
    Level 29  
    zbigmen wrote:
    The cost of the whole with independent work and assembly is about PLN 15,000 nowadays.

    There is no option to do an off-grid installation with 10 400W panels for 15,000. For the panels themselves, you will give min. 8,000, min. 4,000 for such a powerful inverter, and if you want a LifePo4 battery, then min. 1.1 thousand for 12.8V with a capacity of 60Ah.
    And where are the earth electrodes, wiring, protections, etc.
    Not to mention the installation of panels.
    zbigmen wrote:
    Maybe someone will count how much I will earn monthly or annually and when I will be financially at zero

    You'll break even in 10 years. Of course, it all depends on electricity prices.
  • #40 20257494
    zbigmen
    Level 13  
    michalPV wrote:
    4 thousand for such a powerful inverter
    Do you mean a 24V to 230V inverter? It is up to PLN 2000: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/10050037055144....0.0.6d12452cRI3TOR&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
    Panels: https://kotly.com.pl/produkt-modul-fotowoltai...-450m-mono-450w-bez-transportu-6569.html?l=pl
    10x930=PLN 9,300.
    Panels: https://allegro.pl/oferta/panel-jinko-solar-410w-jkm410m-72hl-v-12762153909
    705x10-7050+shipping 444+7494
    Powmr MPPT Solar charge controller 12V 24V 36V 48V 60A - two or even 3 of these can be connected in parallel:
    https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/10050048087436...cm-url=1007.13339.291025.0&pvid=dbe12350-73d2 -4eae-acff-4ca8a516d344&_t=gps-id%3ApcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller%2Cscm-url%3A1007.13339.291025.0%2Cpvid%3Adbe12350-73d2-4eae-acff-4ca8a516d344%2Ctpp_buckets%3A668%232846%238109%231935&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id% 22%3A%2212000030576981074%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%223339%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21PLN%21410.57%21324.37%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a23b016669854110366622e0639%2112000030576981074%21rec&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
    Up to PLN 1,000.
    Where's the battery bank?
    https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/10050047361112...4-9655-48aa-bd32-40983a48a142-8&pdp_ext_f=%7B %22sk_id%22%3A%2212000030287256371%22%7D & PDP_NPI = 2%40DIS%21PLN%217702.83%214236.54%21%21%21%21113.07%21%21%21%402100BB4a16669871135262150E9799%
    PLN 4,400. minimum from a reliable seller because you can run into a cheater.
    15,000 may not be enough even with your own labor.
    So every off grid is a waste of money, even when buying from a Chinese store because there is no cheaper option.
    And all this for 6 hours of moderate work up to 2.3 kWh.
    All the links I have cited here are only for price comparison on the current market, it is PLN 15,000. But the rest is about PLN 2,000 with own labor.
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  • #41 20257593
    Maverick73
    Level 36  
    zbigmen wrote:
    So every off grid is a waste of money.


    There are many factors to this. No, not everyone is a waste of money.
  • #42 20326528
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #43 20326590
    cysiekw
    Level 42  
    Today, December 9, a friend who has 4KW installations announced that he produced 3.2KW for 9 days
  • #45 20328228
    Leon444
    Level 26  
    At my place, at 11kW, 65kWh production for 10 days in December, which is less than on one sunny May day ?

    My OFF-GRID 880W installation in a single-family house - independent of the ener

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the construction of an OFF-GRID photovoltaic installation in a single-family house, aimed at achieving partial energy independence. The installation includes two Longi 440W solar panels, an Epever Tracer 4210AN charging controller, AGM batteries with a total capacity of 1.4kWh, and a 3000W pure sine inverter. Users share insights on energy consumption, battery management, and the aesthetic considerations of panel placement. Concerns about winter energy production and the viability of off-grid systems in Poland's climate are raised, alongside discussions on cost, potential savings, and the importance of alternative energy sources. The conversation also touches on the practicality of hybrid systems and the challenges of relying solely on solar energy during less sunny months.
Summary generated by the language model.
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