Fireplace 4-Hot Water Exchanger Installation Process and How It Works

I have a friend who insisted on installing something like this for him.
Pts. 4-hot water exchanger.
I have no experience with this.
Of course, the boiler room has already been completed, plate exchanger, additional pumps, controls, everything as written in the book.
My question is, has anyone installed something like this?
How does such an exchanger work?

Act as with a regular plate heat exchanger, open system, etc.
It`s a simple matter, and you know the art of installation.
Cool, it`s just a heat exchanger, and since the efficiency is crap, it means...

mirrzo wrote:

Act as with a regular plate heat exchanger, open system, etc.
It`s a simple matter, and you know the art of installation.
Cool, it`s just a heat exchanger, and since the efficiency is crap, it means...

That`s what I do.
I`m looking for opinions from someone who uses or has used this product.
It`s about this crappy efficiency, my friend is stubborn and he can`t translate it at all.
I want to use it to heat 80 meters of underfloor heating, a 120 liter tank and 12 radiators!

I don`t know the parameters of this thing, but I saw it in action. I didn`t install it, but you can tell him that the chimney poured like a bucket because the cooling of the exhaust gases was so great.
And if he insisted, take the paper stating that he "insisted" and install it. Paper, just for the future... hopefully it won`t be needed.

I have something like this, I made it myself. My heat exchanger is even bigger
than those offered on the market, it is 160 cm high - exchange area
is 0.6 m2. To obtain 60 degrees in the system, you need to maintain large sizes
fire, during normal operation the temperature fluctuates around 45 degrees,
so there are no revelations, fortunately there is also radiation
heat from the fireplace and it`s actually very warm. I use it to heat some things
70 meters + approx. 50 at the top - 10 radiators in total. 80 meters of underfloor heating, a 120 liter tank and 12 radiators - it probably won`t work if
this is a standard 1-meter heat exchanger, its surface area will be
approx. 0.4 m2, i.e. approximately 4 kW... this is rather poor power.
This is what my torpedo looks like

.......hmm, it`s a good thing, but if the ceiling was higher, it would probably be higher too??? For me - a failure. Well, this is not the place for criticism. Regards

mirrzo wrote:

I don`t know the parameters of this thing, but I saw it in action. I didn`t install it, but you can tell him that the chimney poured like a bucket because the cooling of the exhaust gases was so great.
And if he insisted, take the paper stating that he "insisted" and install it. Paper, just for the future... hopefully it won`t be needed.

No, it`s cool, he`s aware and pays the money himself in advance.
This is where I know what I`m doing.

... and by the way, I would suggest insulating the "torpedo", more heat would be sent to the radiators

mirrzo wrote:

.......hmm, it`s a good thing, but if the ceiling was higher, it would probably be higher too??? For me - a failure. Well, this is not the place for criticism. Regards

Since I did it myself, it was made to measure and despite being weak
I don`t complain about my fitness in general

To the cubicle
But I hope it works in an open system, right???

System activated.
At the moment, only the underfloor heating is installed, approx. 85 m².
After two days of continuous burning (the temperature in the exchanger did not exceed 59 degrees), nothing condensed in the chimney, maybe because the chimney is insulated with wool.
However, it leaks from the connections between the exchanger and the fireplace and condenses heavily.
The temperature of the water in the floor circuit when starting was 8 degrees, now it is 27 degrees.
This is not bad.
We`ll install the radiators on Tuesday, we`ll see what happens.
I will post photos of the exchanger and the boiler room in the evening.

Regards.

I have been using a similar solution for three years now.
I am very satisfied, about 60 m2 of underfloor heating and three radiators in the rooms (a total of 120 m2 of the house and a garage with mixed heating), a 2 mm heat-resistant sheet metal exchanger in a half-lying position, an angle of inclination of about 15 degrees to the horizontal. at first it dripped, but after a few weeks it sealed itself from the smoke.
The only question that comes to my mind is whether it is worth making the exchanger out of chrome-nickel, e.g. 0.8 mm, maybe it will absorb even more heat than the "bulb", because it is thinner despite the worse conductivity.
When it comes to opinions, I RECOMMEND. It`s definitely worth it.

I have been using this solution for 1 year and I am also satisfied
House 150 m2 fireplace with hot air distribution + 1 m exchanger powers radiators and underfloor heating in the kitchen and bathroom last winter was light but the temperature in the house did not drop below 22 degrees

Regards

hello everyone
I admit that I was interested in this device for heating domestic water in a tank of approximately 150 liters. A question for those who are connected to the DGP system is how it works from an economic point of view. What I mean is that normally a small flame or ember is enough in the fireplace to maintain the temperature in the house, and after adding this interesting device, would it make sense to make more noise in the fireplace?

Hello.
I modified not the fireplace but the goat. The goat is a "Caesar" model, adding a water jacket. I just stuffed my coat into the fireplace itself. I`m not afraid of melting the pipes, because there is always water in them in the winter. Cold water - I mean not exceeding 80 degrees. This goat has been operating since the beginning of the heating season. I don`t know if I didn`t heat the fireplace, there would be no problem with boiling water, but this is the result of a properly selected water flow through the goat. The installation is a closed system with UPS protection of the pump and a 1.5 atm safety valve. With this system I heat 140 m2, but it is a bit small. Tomorrow I will finish the exchanger in the smoke chimney itself. It is important that the exchanger is made of one piece of pipe, then once a year it needs to be burned off the tar that accumulates, as well as the goat. During firing, the pipes get very hot and this process must be carefully controlled, so the welds on copper pipes must be well made. I checked the burning process and after burning, you can use a vacuum cleaner to collect the coal.
Sorry for the quality, the photos were taken with a phone.
Such systems cannot be gravity-fed, the additional pipe at the top is an air vent, the advantage is a small water charge, so the system heats up quickly. This is important in the summer when only domestic water needs to be heated.


I just fired up my goat again with a new fireplace insert.
The maximum power of the goat is 12kW, as you can see on the heat meter, you can achieve a little more and in the form of hot water, not counting the radiation of heat into the air, it works great. I do not regret the costs incurred for a new stainless steel pipe and 25 m of copper pipe. It`s true that I don`t have water in the tanks yet, they`ll connect it tomorrow, but I`ll probably heat up 600 liters in no time.



So far, I started only with the underfloor heating, cooled down to a temperature of 9 degrees, about 80 m2, on the power supply I reached 40 - 50 degrees without any effort, after about six hours of heating the floor reached a temperature of 26 degrees. the exchanger has a diameter of 260 mm and a total length of 1 m. During the entire heating time, the exchanger casing was cold as a fish, even the rag did not dry and the connections to and from the outlet were hot, I obtained 2.5 liters of condensate, and I burned two crates of wood.
Regards

Added after 6 [minutes]:

Hello.
I forgot to add the counter view.


Added after 1 [hours] 13 [minutes]:

Hello.

Quote:

However, it leaks from the connections between the exchanger and the fireplace and condenses heavily.

DonRomano, quickly modify the exchanger above the fireplace. You won`t be able to seal the leaking condensation with anything, I`ve been trying to control the problem for half a year. The design of the exchanger must have something like a tight gutter with a pipe that drains the condensate into the sewer.
Otherwise you won`t solve it and you will have smokehouses in your cottage.
Regards.

Hello ! I want to replace the tiled stove with a fireplace in my house. My apartment is 50 m2 and I would have to connect several radiators. Would an approximately 1-meter heat exchanger do the trick?

no problems, 1 m of exchanger can handle about 4 kW on radiators + about 50 m of hose in the underfloor heating, no condensate, of course, cyclical pump control
14 kV fireplace

Regards

To Col. bacchus:
This exchanger made of copper pipes will probably not work for a long time in direct contact with exhaust gases, and the layer of soot will effectively reduce its efficiency....

I would cover it with fireclay mortar to make it easier to remove soot and prevent it from being damaged by exhaust gases and colostrum condensate. I think so. Will it work? And I would also like to clean the inspection flap.

The condensate will pass through the fireclay; it goes through the chimney wall.
Overall a failure. As quickly as it is done, it will fail as quickly.
According to logic and law, as much heat as possible should be recovered in the boiler or furnace, and not in the chimney pipe. The temperature of exhaust gases leaving atmospheric boilers and furnaces is strictly defined and should not be reduced. Reason ? - condensate, which degrades chimneys and, as a result, also limits the draft, which may cause carbon monoxide to escape into the boiler room (living room).

Yes, I know, but I think we`re talking about solid fuel. Condensate will form in the coldest part. Anyway, let the author try it and tell us where it was consumed.

Of course it`s about solid fuel, but with COIL, which "saves" energy.
First, the condensate will pour out at the top of the chimney - onto the plaster or clinker, and then it will eat up the "toto" in the living room and flood the parquets and other wonders: remote controls, safari skins, etc.
I would like to see a guy who cleans the "toto" after some (short) time enjoying the fact that he saved wood for burning.
MISTAKE

Have you thought about how you will clean it?

DonRomano The question is - what is the reason for mounting the exchanger horizontally - any specific reasons

I just started the system yesterday and got stuck in the exchanger

I connected the power supply from the fireplace side - to the exchanger in the lower part - and the water seems to stop the whole thing - the water is cooled in the exchanger and does not go any further -

I did the installation myself - being green - but I`m clueless - I`ll try it out a few times before I do it

so this morning I called my friend - he is doing the installation - he checked everything and only found out about this exchanger, or rather that the power supply is connected the other way around.

this is what it looks like in the hand drawing
on the right side, shouldn`t it be connected the other way around?????

It is installed backwards. It should be installed so that the water flows through it in the opposite direction, and the pump on the furnace side should be installed behind the exchanger, because as shown in the drawing, it will be exposed to high temperatures.
Regards

bacchus1 Don`t you think that this exchanger would be better if the water flowed directly in it, as if in the jacket, instead of in the coil made of copper pipes? You`ve made such a gem out of sourdough, all that`s left is to make a double-jacketed pipe. Much larger exchange surface... I`m talking, of course, about the exchanger on the smoke pipe. There are some on a well-known auction site with a Bertrams pipe and another pipe with a larger diameter, all welded, two sleeves welded to the outer pipe and it`s elegant. It costs a lot... but you can do it yourself. Beautiful water jacket.

I have another question about this coil inside the goat - if you had the conditions for it - free space - could you make it from one piece of "soft copper" pipe without soldering the elbows?

I was going to buy a ready-made exchanger from Aledrogo, but due to the price, time, and the need to buy additional elbows - the exit from the bottom is horizontal, and I want to focus on my own design and workmanship, i.e.:

1. inside the goat, above the fireplace, place a small coil made of a soft copper pipe,
2. I want to make the exit and entrance through a cleanout of the heat-resistant pipe connecting the stove with the chimney (it`s a nice cast iron stove and I regret drilling holes in it)
3. after the flue goes outside, I will wind the same copper pipe several times on a short section of the flue, insulate it and wrap it with aluminum foil.
4. A regular central heating pump controller with a sensor on the goat`s flue,
5. a primitive open vessel with a single pipe leading into it
6. first with hot water to the 140l boiler, then to the radiator, then to the underfloor heating, central heating pump and entrance to the stove

When I do, I will post photos.

Can you suggest which manufacturer`s exchanger is best to install?
I saw such a WZW/200 exchanger on Kratki.pl, but when I contacted the manufacturer, they recommended TURBODYM. Has anyone installed an exchanger from this manufacturer?

He would like to install such an exchanger in his Spartherm fireplace
varia AH (11KW - according to the German standard). The area of the apartment with a fireplace is 90 m2.
I have underfloor heating on 60 m2, and one radiator in two rooms. Currently, the entire house with a total area of 290 m2 is heated with a gas furnace with a power of 28 KW.


I thought that it would be worth using this fireplace to heat more than just the living room in the apartment.
I would like to point out that the primary source of heat is the gas furnace. I would just like to help myself a little with the exchanger.

Please advise

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum.
I`ll refresh the topic a bit. Soon I will be installing DGP heating at my friends` house.
And then there was a problem with the hot water... I`m looking at all the patents for fireplace exchangers and I wouldn`t hesitate if it weren`t for the fact that there is no electricity in the house where I will be installing them. There is not and there will not be for several years. It is powered by solar batteries, but in winter there is not enough electricity to power the pump.
Therefore, I would like to ask/question the users of such patents, or maybe someone has checked how it works in a gravitational system?
In the past, coal stoves could cope with gravity, but these were systems with a very large water capacity.
The second thing is condensation, which I would like to avoid. So I guess this typical Allegro exchanger doesn`t convince me. I thought about making a copper coil at the chimney connection, not in the chimney, so that it would not come into contact with fire and exhaust gases. I also wonder if it could work in a flow-through manner if it were moved a little away from the chimney and extended appropriately.
I will be grateful for your advice.
Regards

Is an expansion vessel or expansion tank required for this system?

I installed an exchanger on the fireplace - the structure is as follows.
It is 1 m long and square, the smoke flows through 9 smoke tubes made of a 60x60 mm profile. The heating surface is 1.5 m2. It works great - I burn a bucket of wooden waste and I have hot water in a 140l heat exchanger.