Cost Allocator Cheating: Bypassing CO Radiator Sensor in Housing Association Units (90 characters)

A colleague asked me how to cheat the cost allocator installed on the CO radiator by the housing association? The first time I saw such a miracle and what I saw was: a temperature sensor connected to a clock measuring time and a counter counting some units, of which such a unit is the amount of heat in time (I suppose). It looks like a small plastic trinket with a display and an infrared LED, a sealed opening below it. Sounds delicious. Can something be done about it ?? The game only includes an electronic solution (reprogramming, rearranging, resetting, or whatever else someone comes up with), and whether having one such sensor (it can be arranged) and reading EPROMA from it, you can think of something for the other sensors. I hope I made myself clear (although I have a different impression), I am waiting for your opinions and ideas, ... best regards

Hi!
Probably rummaging in Eproma, you can mess up the billing data, but you can also crash the program. By opening the meter, you break the legalization seal - if it is installed at the customer, he will have trouble - the billing device. Usually the data is kept: temporarily in RAM, during a power outage in the EEProm (along with checksums).
Some heat meters have an interface input with the M-bus protocol (not to be confused with the Modbus or GSM protocol ). In this standard, it is possible to reset the abacus, but: does your meter have such an option, does it have such an interface, etc ...
I have a bad feeling about this.
Greetings,

And I have a allocator from which the liquid evaporates and every year I get a leaflet from the cooperative that it is impossible to dry wet rags on the radiator, because it increases heat consumption. Isn't that making people a fool?

It's not like - if you hang something wet on the radiator, the humidity of this sensor's surroundings changes and it shows less - this substance evaporates slowly - which is not for the cooperative .....

I also figured it out but see what cunning on their part radiates here. And how not to boot such smarts?

but the ombudsman has recently received a complaint against the cooperative that it does not count what evaporated during this hot summer, more heat - more evaporated.
Gazeta Prawna from this or the previous week.

Evaporated to everyone, this is a cost allocator, not a numerator.

Not every apartment has the same temperature, the ones from the south are sunnier and the temperature is higher, moreover, check the legal newspaper a few days back, there is this problem described in detail.

Gentlemen, the first thing is such a divider reacts to the difference (note: difference !!!) in temperatures, so its cooling is not convenient. He counts then (electronic) when the difference is there. Therefore, it should be ensured that it is not. Pack the stuff so that there is no temperature difference and see what it counts. I have such divisors myself, but I have not experimented with them (I have a large overpayment anyway ). Thus, the maximum cost savings of 20% can be achieved.

What difference? .Between the sensor and the? ... radiator, the surroundings or maybe the ends of the sensor?

Between the radiator and the air.

Maybe I can give you a hint. I experimented with several types of such devices and it worked out for me. Later it turned out that a colleague worked in a company that dealt with the assembly of these devices. I asked what it turns out. It is not possible to reset the reprogramming or what anyone would do with it without damaging this system (of course, if you do not know how - your friend did not know) but he gave me a way to have an overpayment.
The method is simple - for the winter period, the heaters should be dismantled and taken to the basement. Of course, in their place, we install a new radiator without a divider. Only that this method has one big drawback, namely the whole system works so that after using this method the neighbors will pay for the heat consumed. There is a collective heat meter in the basement, and the allocators are only used to appropriately divide the amount of heat consumed by a given tenant.
As for the wet cloth on the radiators, it actually accelerates the evaporation of the liquid in the allocator.
Electric sensors have two temperature sensors. one collects information about the radiator temperature and the other one about the ambient temperature, and on the basis of these data it calculates the heat consumption. I tried to heat one such divisor from the outside to reduce the difference and it melted a bit 8O. I do not know yet how the accounting company will approach it, but I hope the guys will not get it.

Greetings
Mathev

Mathevp wrote:

The method is simple - for the winter period, the heaters should be dismantled and taken to the basement. Of course, in their place, we install a new radiator without a divider.

.... You made me laugh, actually a good way, just a little "bulky" ...

zhu wrote:

that this one does not count down what evaporated during this hot summer.

The companies producing these allocators explain that the liquid is about a centimeter more than the scale shows (this is how it is with me). It is 0 and the liquid starts 10 lines higher. And this centimeter is supposed to be enough for a whole summer
I don't believe it either.
Greetings.

Mathevp wrote:

Only that this method has one big drawback, namely the whole system works so that after using this method the neighbors will pay for the heat used. There is a collective heat meter in the basement, and the allocators are only used to appropriately divide the amount of heat consumed by a given tenant.

Greetings
Mathev

This is, in my opinion, the main disadvantage - it is equally ethical to start sitting down in the evening, treat him with a baseball and take your wallet, or connect your electrical installation to his meter to further reduce your bills.

Mathevp wrote:

...... a wet cloth on the radiators actually accelerates the evaporation of the liquid in the allocator .....

Or rather, it decreases - because in the vicinity of the allocator, greater humidity is created, so from the simple laws of physics ........

to {mgim} I thought so too, but by creating a shell of moisture you speed up the evaporation process. Seemingly illogical but true. If you really want to know the mechanism, I can call my friend and ask him.

I'm glad I was able to make you laugh to Tears, but people actually do and it works. Unfortunately, this is not an elegant solution.


Greetings

Mathev

Eventually I had an idea and I am testing it. And it looks like this: allocators (electronic) usually have two types of air temperature sensors or they do not have such a sensor at all, and they consider this temperature to be 20 degrees C. The air sensor is either a ceramic thermistor or something like a pyrometer (but I haven't checked it yet). In my case, this is the first sensor. I made a sort of "little chamber" out of a matchpack with a hole for the sensor cut out. I put a resistor inside, a selected trial and error method so that the temperature in the middle of the pod is in the range of 24-25 degrees C. the whole thing is fixed with a bandage plaster (as an additional isolator from the room) to the divider. Power supply from the broadband antenna amplifier.
I am testing two such inventions at the moment, and as I have observed in a week, there is a slight difference between the measurements on the sensors with and without "resistors"

I hope I haven't missed anything in my reasoning, if so, please give me a hint.

greetings,..

A little quote:

"The optica allocator can determine, with the help of the installed program, whether the heating was switched on or not. The device checks the room temperature in relation to the radiator temperature. Depending on the result, the heat consumption is counted or not.
If the allocator is covered, it will switch to single-sensor mode and use the room temperature of 20 ° C for the calculation. If the effect on the room temperature sensor ceases, optica will automatically switch to two-sensor operating mode. This ensures that only the actual consumption values that are shown on the display are recorded.
A special electronic system prevents registration of wear in the so-called summer period (June to August). "

or if someone wants to read about the allocators on the manufacturer's website:
http://www.techem.pl

It turns out that there are also divisors retrieved by radio 8O

Maybe this data will be useful to someone.

Mathev

Mathevp wrote:

to {mgim} I thought so too, but by creating a shell of moisture you speed up the evaporation process. Seemingly illogical but true. If you really want to know the mechanism, I can call my friend and ask him.

Mathev

it depends what kind of liquid it is. if you had access to the liquid inside the divider and the rags were just wet, you would get less evaporation inside the divider - it is about the vapor pressure of a given liquid at a specific temperature

As for the post "Mathevp" - Optica is a divider with a pyrometer, i.e. temperature measurement based on the thermal radiation of the environment, maybe I'm wrong, but instead of using a box of matches, a box of e.g. tic-tacs (transparent), you can cheat contraption and force to work with the "forced" ambient temperature, not the standard 20 degrees C, ...

Well ,,,, it might work.
Let me know if anything came out of it.

Greetings

Mathev

When it comes to evaporator allocators (those for ampoules), I heard that you can buy 5 PLN for them at the Rozycki bazaar in Warsaw.
Then we close the ampoule with a cap and the problem with the head - but you have to be careful that this trash does not come out - it stinks terribly.
And as for taking the radiator with the divider into the basement, it is not a simple matter - to dismantle the radiator, you need to drain the water from the central heating installation, and this is already a problem (keys to the heat junction, knowledge of the installation, location of valves, etc.) this is followed by a second filling, and this is already ongoing and someone from the neighbors could get upset that he does not heat up ...
I know that it is quite a good way to set the thermostatic valves at about 18 degrees and thus use the heat transfer through walls and ceilings - contrary to appearances, you can save a lot at the expense of a slightly lower temperature in the room.
However, each of these methods is nothing more than robbing a neighbor.
greetings.

Well, as if these dividers should be tightly wrapped with aluminum foil

Maybe it will be useful to posterity ;)

This will join the question. Mainly because when we moved to a new apartment, we did not know what such allocators were and for a few hours (!) During the entire heating season, the radiator in the kitchen was working, and it loaded more heating "points" than two radiators from the remaining rooms together ... There had to be an open window, anyway we feel deceived. The system sucks.

I have a large number of ordinary aluminum heat sinks. If I "cover" the radiator with such heat sinks, what will happen?

Will this slightly lower the temperature of the radiator or accelerate the increase in the ambient temperature, which in turn will have a minimal impact on the bills?

Thanks in advance

greetings

PS and a question about the method with aluminum foil between the wall and the radiator, will such a "reflection" of heat not negatively affect the heat sensor?

Hello
I have this caloric 5.5 contraption, the question is whether it can be removed and whether the unit will note the removal, and the seals are the least of the problems, they are available.