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Options for Electric Heating in a 60 m2, 1st Floor Tenement Apartment with 12 kW Power

SzokalML 61094 42
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What is the most sensible way to heat a 60 m2, first-floor tenement apartment with a 12 kW power allocation and no gas connection?

The thread converges on using dynamic storage heaters as the most sensible solution: two 3 kW units on a properly made three-phase installation, placed against external walls/under windows, with the rest of the electrical system sized correctly by an experienced installer [#8609208] [#8616441] [#8606492] The original poster later reported that 2 × 3 kW dynamic accumulation furnaces on a 5×2.5 mm cable and a new fuse board worked very well, maintained about 20°C around the clock even at -10 to -15°C, and used roughly 6 kW of heating power out of the 12 kW allocation [#8885192] In practice, the apartment stayed comfortable and the heating cost was about PLN 300/month in cold weather, so the dynamic stoves were preferred over convectors, oil heaters, or infrared panels [#8885192] An electric boiler with radiators was suggested early on, but it was considered more expensive and troublesome to install than storage heaters [#8287679] [#8290149] The replies also warn not to oversize the setup by assuming all appliances run at once; instead, keep heating, cooker, boiler, and other loads balanced across phases [#8609208] [#8605846]
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  • #31 8895929
    SzokalML
    Level 36  
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    Gas boiler? Are these total charges - for electricity and electricity?
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  • #32 8896781
    am44
    Level 21  
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    During the heating season, the boiler is connected to central heating. This is a gas charge.
  • #33 8897644
    SzokalML
    Level 36  
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    Thank you for the information.

    Some say that fans in dynamic furnaces make a little noise and it can disturb, for example, in sleep.
    It probably depends on the model. In my fan, you can only hear when you put your ear to the stove, or there is perfect silence around it, and it is barely audible anyway.

    I am thinking of making a suspended ceiling of profiles + GK (lowering from 3.75m to 2.80m). Will then heating costs decrease by this cubature (i.e. 25%) - or something more?

    On the other hand, it would be a bit of a regret to have a pleasant coolness in summer :) Low height - not enough for an anstresol, and too much for an ordinary apartment ;)
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  • #34 8901377
    am44
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    The suspended ceiling in this apartment is completely pointless. The temperature in the cut-off space will be the same as in the rest of the room. We are losing the "available" air, and the rooms will be dark with their length. From the projection of the apartment shown earlier, I estimate that the main heat loss will be through the external wall with windows, some losses to the staircase, because it is probably unheated. Up, down and sideways heat balance will be zero. Consider warm, plush curtains on exterior walls. I know from experience that this saves a bit of heat.
  • #35 8903447
    SzokalML
    Level 36  
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    Well, then I will consider some form of mezzanine in some rooms when some funds arrive.
  • #36 9092403
    wnoto
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    To the author. A very sensible approach to the subject. Congratulations.
    I do not know what you did with the tiled stove, but it can always be used as a system heating and the dynamic stove can heat up the room .. Although the tiled stove takes up a lot of space.

    As for the ceiling, you did not consider lowering the ceiling. It is not terribly expensive and the cubic capacity for heating is decreasing. Even one room is something.
    Which energy services to use - check the offer, maybe they have the so-called weekend offer - it will be a bit better.
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  • #37 9100972
    SzokalML
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    You haven't read previous posts - I was considering making a false ceiling. I also wrote that the tiled stove is connected - but I have not yet turned it on. And it probably won't happen.

    It is the dynamic furnaces that serve as system heating. Tiled is unused.

    In Krakow, electric tiled stoves are very common in tenement houses, because the City has long been subsidizing the conversion of stoves (now it is also possible to obtain funding for the purchase of dynamic ones). So many of my friends have such heating - and few are satisfied.

    Why?

    - wrong location of the stove, usually in the corner of the room. It is hot by the stove and very cold by the windows. A great "start" to wet the wall.
    The stoves must be under the windows, i.e. in the coldest place in the room, which ensures proper air circulation.

    - poor temperature distribution throughout the day. Much too warm, in the middle of the night when we sleep, and coldest between 4:00 PM and 11:00 PM, when we are most often at home, because the stove did not warm up between 1:00 PM and 3:00 PM.

    - The only control option is - 1,2,3 heaters turned on.

    And, of course, huge bills, despite the unfavorable temperature.

    Therefore - people who installed a dynamic storage stove of the same power instead of a tiled stove felt a significant improvement - both in temperature and in the bills.
  • #38 9101006
    wnoto
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    The tiled stove is poorly controllable - therefore it should be used as a system heating.
    The dynamic furnace should heat up when more thermal comfort is needed at a given moment. Thanks to this, it will be much smaller. The existing fan in it should give the heat to the room well. Placing it under the window will actually give the best results, i.e. temperature equalization.

    The temperature should be controlled by a fan in an accumulation furnace.
  • #39 9101066
    SzokalML
    Level 36  
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    It should not be used at all. Because what for?
    Dynamic stoves can handle it without any problems and I would have no profit from starting the tiled stove apart from overheating at night and bigger bills.

    Unless someone is considering saving and buying a smaller stove to use a tiled and accumulative stove - but this is pointless, because a used 3 kw stove costs about PLN 1000-1100, and a 5 kw stove - PLN 1400-1500.
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  • #40 9101104
    wnoto
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    Having a tiled stove, you can get the PLN 400 about which you write.
    Here comes the tactile value (if the tiled stays) that it is slightly warm - everyone who comes here wants to touch such a stove ... don't they?

    Of course, as you wrote, the difference is small in terms of price. Sometimes the size of the furnace is too big or too heavy etc.
  • #41 9142496
    SzokalML
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    However, the PLN 400 will settle out quite quickly on the bills. In general, I am opposed to tiled stoves because of their ineffectiveness - which I described a few posts earlier. Cases where, when using tiled stoves, the electric bills are acceptable and at the same time decent temperature prevails are rare.

    Next month report:

    between 9/01/2011 and 12/02/2011 (34 days)
    I used electricity for the amount of:
    PLN 68 - tariff I
    270 PLN - tariff II (including DHW)

    taking the correction for DHW and 34 days, heating for a month, cost about 230 PLN. Of course, January was very warm compared to previous years.
  • #42 9382789
    SzokalML
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    The heating season 2010-2011 has probably ended. Summary.

    Together,
    From the beginning of October to April 10, 4,000 kWh was used in the second tariff, which gives a sum of approx. PLN 1,350. (+ consumption approx. PLN 50 per month on the first tariff).
    This amount also included water heating with a boiler - which I estimate is about 100 kWh, or PLN 33 per month, compared to the summer months.

    Thus, the costs of heating itself during the heating season amounted to approx. PLN 1,200.

    So I will not consider building a suspended ceiling, as its construction has no chance of paying off in the near future.
  • #43 9476834
    dzelka
    Level 1  
    Posts: 1
    And I would recommend infrapanels here. So infrared heating panels. I have it myself and I am very pleased. They are not very cheap, but the running costs are fairly satisfactory. I have low electricity bills. The heat is pleasantly moist and not as dry as in the case of other heating systems. On the website www.infrapanele.pl you have everything described what and how. I also have and recommend it

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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around options for heating a 60 m² tenement apartment with a 12 kW power allocation and no gas supply. Various heating solutions are considered, including electric boilers, accumulation stoves, infrared panels, and air conditioning. Users suggest that electric boilers may be too costly and complex due to installation and radiator costs. Accumulation stoves are favored for their lower initial investment and efficiency, with recommendations for dynamic discharge models. Infrared heating is also mentioned as a viable option for high ceilings. The importance of proper installation and power management is emphasized, with users sharing personal experiences regarding costs and effectiveness of different heating methods. The conversation highlights the need for careful consideration of energy tariffs and the potential for significant electricity bills.
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FAQ

TL;DR: 6 kW of Stiebel-Eltron dynamic storage heaters kept a 60 m², 3.75 m-high flat at 20 °C for PLN 270–300/month—“With properly selected radiators the system should be financially viable” [Elektroda, SzokalML, #8885192; Elektroda, szymonjasiu, #8287679].

Why it matters: Tenement owners on a 12 kW G12 supply can cut bills and avoid cold spots by choosing, locating and wiring electric heaters correctly.

Quick Facts

• Typical heat demand in pre-war brick flats: 70–120 W/m²; OP achieved comfort at 100 W/m² with 6 kW total [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8885192] • Used 3 kW dynamic heater weight: 140–168 kg; budget PLN 1 000–1 200 each including transport [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8885192] • Night-day G12 tariff split: 22:00-6:00 plus 13:00-15:00 off-peak; off-peak unit price ≈ PLN 0.36/kWh, peak ≈ PLN 0.60/kWh [Elektroda, berga, post #8604968] • 12 kW 3-phase connection supports 3×16 A; loading one phase above 5.8 kW trips 25 A breaker on 2.5 mm² cable [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8605846] • Heat-pump air-cons with “winter package” operate down to −20 °C but lose efficiency below −7 °C [Elektroda, robertw28, post #8367923]

What size storage heaters do I really need for a 60 m², 3.75 m-high tenement flat?

Forum tests show 2×3 kW (≈100 W/m²) maintained 20 °C even at −15 °C outdoors [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8885192] Sellers suggested 8–12 kW, but that would over-spec the supply and raise costs.

How much will dynamic storage heating cost per winter month on a G12 meter?

The OP paid PLN 270–300/month for off-peak power in January (4 000 kWh over the season ≈ PLN 1 200) [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #9382789] Add PLN 50 peak use for lights and cooking.

Is my 12 kW allocation enough for heaters, cooker, boiler and other loads?

Yes—if loads are spread across phases and not used simultaneously. Planned loads total 11 kW typical; simultaneous worst-case exceeds 20 kW and will trip breakers [Elektroda, berga, post #8604968]

Where should I position storage heaters for best air circulation?

Place them under the windows on the external wall. This counteracts downdraught and evens room temperature [Elektroda, am44, post #8614285]

Do the fans in dynamic heaters disturb sleep?

Most models emit <30 dB; the OP reports they are “barely audible” in a quiet room [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8897644] Faulty bearings can raise noise—replace the sleeve fan for <PLN 80.

Are infrared panels cheaper to run than storage heaters?

Quoted install cost was PLN 9 000 vs PLN 2 400 for used storage units, and running cost would still be PLN 0.36/kWh overnight—no bill advantage [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8593491]

Is an air-conditioning heat pump a better option?

COP ≈ 3 at +7 °C but drops toward 1.5 below −7 °C; purchase + service can equal storage-heater cost, yet you gain summer cooling [Elektroda, robertw28, post #8367923]

Will lowering the ceiling save money?

Experts say temperature equalises above a plaster board; savings are negligible and rooms darken [Elektroda, am44, post #8901377] A mezzanine or ceiling fan gives more benefit.

How do I haul a 168 kg heater up two flights safely?

  1. Remove front panel and bricks (cuts weight by ~70 %).
  2. Strap chassis to a stair-climbing dolly.
  3. Carry bricks individually in buckets [Elektroda, am44, post #8613794]

Can I wire a 7 kW ceramic hob on a single phase?

A 2.5 mm² Cu cable safely carries 5.8 kW max; exceeding this risks overheating. Use a 3-phase 5×4 mm² feed to meet regulations [Elektroda, berga, post #8609208]

What’s the payback versus replacing with a gas boiler?

Gas at PLN 0.24/kWh is 1.5× cheaper than off-peak electricity, but installing flue and radiators cost PLN 8 000–10 000 [Elektroda, szymonjasiu, post #8287679] Payback exceeds 7 years at current bills.

Quick steps: How do I set the nightly charge level on a dynamic heater?

  1. Set charge control to 2⁄3 on first cold night.
  2. Next morning check surface still warm at 07:00.
  3. Adjust up or down one mark until heat lasts to 22:00 [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #8885192]

What happens if everything switches on and exceeds 12 kW?

Main breaker trips, cutting all power. Distribute heaters across phases and avoid running kettle, oven and washing machine during charging hours [Elektroda, berga, post #8604968] Edge case: a stuck relay can keep heaters charging in peak time, doubling cost.

Is it worth keeping the old tiled stove as backup?

No; it overheats at night, cools by evening and occupies floor space. Owners switching to dynamic units saw lower bills and steadier temperature [Elektroda, SzokalML, post #9100972]
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