Gas Heating in 50sqm Apartment: Combi Condensing Boiler & Tariff Advice (2nd Floor Tenement)

Hello
as I am a layman in this topic, I would like to ask for advice
I have a 50 sqm apartment for sale on the 2nd floor in a 3-story tenement house. As there is only 1 tiled stove in the apartment, I thought to make gas heating
I read a bit, but I'm still not sure which stove / boiler to choose a combi condensing boiler, apparently, would be the best, but I would like to advise you so that the gas charges are not from outer space
and I would like to advise you about the tariff as you choose when it comes to gas

Is there gas from the pipe?

Currently, the gas is from the water heater - if that's it, and the owner of the apartment on the first visit said that it is possible to do gas heating

Buddy, it all depends on the technical condition of your apartment.
What windows, is the building insulated, is the apartment gable or in the middle of the building? Mainly the heating costs depend on it.

If it would be gas heating from the boiler (i.e. with radiators), then each (or almost every) boiler may be oversized and will "clock", especially if the apartment was strongly insulated. And wouldn't it be possible - at least in theory - to convert a tiled stove to a gas one - to install an appropriate gas burner in a "tile"? Something like this is often practiced in, for example, Ukraine.

PVC windows, non-insulated building, air-tight apartment, the apartment is located on the 2nd floor of the 3rd so it is inside
when it comes to the conversion of a tiled stove, I do not know because honestly I have not heard about something like this yet

viderr wrote:

Currently, the gas is from the water heater - if that's it, and the owner of the apartment on the first visit said that it is possible to do gas heating

The above quote shows that the water heater produces enough gas for gas heating. I would also install one

Last year, we changed a coal stove to a condensing gas 2-function boiler. Apartment on the 1st floor, windows, 3 panes, insulated building.
We changed the boiler itself, the pipes and cast iron radiators remained. Apartment 120 sq m. 7 heated rooms. Constant temperature of 21 degrees.
Lower Silesia, 3 adults, January bill 320 PLN.

viderr wrote:

PVC windows, non-insulated building, air-tight apartment, the apartment is located on the 2nd floor of the 3rd so it is inside

Much depends on what your real heat demand is in your building.
If we take 85W / m2, we have:
50m2 * 85W / m2 = 4250W, which is about 4.3kW of constant power for frosts -20, which on average in winter gives a constant demand of about 2kW.

When it comes to 2-function boilers, they can have a minimum power of 3-4kW, so such a boiler will be oversized but stubbornly you can accept it.
When it comes to 1-function boilers, they can have a minimum power of 2.2kW, which means that such a boiler will fit better in terms of what
But for DHW then you need an extra water heater that takes up extra space, so you have 2 options.
Either a 2-function boiler with a maximum power of 20-25kW or, if you have space, a 1-function boiler with a maximum power of 14 / 15kW + additional hot water tank
In general, for such a small apartment, the lower the minimum power, the better, so be careful, because you can buy boilers with a minimum power of 5-6kW, which would be a bad idea for your apartment.

As for the brand and model, there are so many sentences, so it's hard for me to recommend something specific.
Personally, I am planning a 1-function Junkers Smart ZSB14-5C boiler with a minimum power of 2.2kW + a Biawar Quattro 100 l hot water tank after the collapse of the current atmospheric boiler with a minimum power of 9.5kW after the collapse of the current 100m2 apartment. In tandem, it will be a 2-function boiler Junkers Smart ZWB28-5C or Junkers Compact ZWB24-1DE. At least for the time being I have these types. You have to choose your type

helazbyś wrote:

Last year, we changed a coal stove to a condensing gas 2-function boiler. Apartment on the 1st floor, windows, 3 panes, insulated building.
We changed the boiler itself, the pipes and cast iron radiators remained. Apartment 120 sq m. 7 heated rooms. Constant temperature of 21 degrees.
Lower Silesia, 3 adults, January bill 320 PLN.

120m2 and 509m2 is a big difference. In the case of an area of 50 m2, it may be difficult to select the boiler so that it is not oversized even at minimum power. One more thing. If hot water is to be obtained through flow (as in a bathroom stove), then the combi boiler must also have a sufficiently high maximum power to heat the water to the bathtub (heating the water requires many times more thermal power than heating this small living area - bathroom stoves have the power of generally 19.2 kW or 23.6 kW).

The "obvious obvious" thing is that you need to start by inviting a chimney sweep to your apartment, who will check whether there are conditions for installing a gas boiler. Then, a gas plant. Then you can ask the designer what and how to install it.

Zbigniew Rusek wrote:

If hot water is to be obtained through flow (as in a bathroom stove), then the combi boiler must also have a sufficiently high maximum power to heat the water to the bathtub (heating the water requires many times more thermal power than heating this small living area - bathroom stoves have the power of generally 19.2 kW or 23.6 kW)

And have you seen a 2-function boiler with a power below 20kW, so that it makes sense to write with a sufficiently high maximum power?
If the power is lower, the hot water will be at a lower flow, but the boiler will heat it up in the apartment without much problem.

For example, the pressure is so small for me that on a 2-function boiler I get a maximum flow of just over 9l / min.
The effect is that I have a 24kW boiler, which I cannot physically use, because these 24kW is too much power for my conditions.
In my building, even in winter, cold water is so "warm" that the 24kW boiler, which I currently have twisted to approx. 17kW, heats the domestic hot water calmly, so for me a 20kW boiler would be ideal, because 24kW is unnecessary.

helazbyś wrote:

The "obvious obvious" thing is that you need to start with inviting a chimney sweep to your apartment, who will check whether there are conditions for installing a gas boiler.

It is best to do it in the first place, so that the current owner said that there is no problem with the gas boiler, and the chimney sweep will say that the boiler falls off, because there is, for example, a free flue gas pipe.

But now there is a gas thermo, I suppose, in the bathroom (and the place of its installation meets the requirements for ventilation and volume). It is enough in this bathroom, instead of a thermal bath, to put in its place (and using the free flue after the thermal bath) a 1 or 2-function stove. Replace the chimney insert with a pipe in the pipe and distribute the central part from this bathroom to the whole apartment.

Why does he need 2 gas boilers, a separate one for CO, one for DHW?

There is a chance that the bathroom also has an exhaust ventilation grille somewhere under the ceiling. Finally, is the volume of the room where the thermal bath is located, at least 6.5 m3?

Wojewoda82 wrote:

But now there is a gas thermo, I suppose, in the bathroom (and the place of its installation meets the requirements for ventilation and volume). It is enough in this bathroom, instead of a thermal bath, to put in its place (and using the free flue after the thermal bath) a 1 or 2-function stove.

As long as there is no consent from the chimney sweep, it will not be enough.
The mere fact of having a hot utility water gas heater does not guarantee the possibility of installing a gas boiler in 100%, so you have to be careful about such cases, because you can step on a mine.

Maybe I will interfere because I was doing a gas stove (apartment house 86m2).

In my case, it was a capital letter. It started with the fact that the gas stove was already there ... but? he was registered as junkers so we had to re-ask for permission, chimney sweep, designer ch * muje wild snakes. Cost? 2.5 thousand for consent + with what the chimney sweep is in the chimney sweep to look favorably at our chimney. Adding to this that everyone in the riser had to sign a consent that they would not climb into that chimney. Oh god, how much nerves.

We had to add the costs of insulation to the costs of obtaining approval on our part. The tenement house was made in the German style, so the front walls did not require insulation. On the other hand, the walls from the staircase, the ceiling and the floor (the apartment on the ground floor) needed to be insulated. We've already done the underfloor heating (I recommend it, the costs aren't that big, you don't have to be smart to install it yourself). The entire investment - insulation, plus a stove, plus 27,000 permits Including about 4,000 we received a return from the city.
Do I recommend? Of course. However, in the cottage I would decide to buy a heat pump (only).

Monthly costs? We do not save. I have a written meter reading from October 29, and so far we have used 927 m3 of gas. That is about PLN 2,100. With the same on the programmer 21 degrees, and even 2 people take baths in the bathtub, where we like to warm up our asshole. It seems to me that we could easily break down from 200-300 m3, then it would have amounted to pennies.

When it comes to a 50m2 apartment, I would honestly advise against it. The furnace is in vain, and the costs are high. I recommend electric mats. Write on PW and I will send you a link. I have recently installed them in my family house and I will tell you - a beautiful thing. You throw under the panels and you don't worry about anything. The team in the area makes these for PLN 130 / m2 with the material, but as I am Jewish, I prefer it alone.

Take a walk around the neighbors and see what heating they have. Go to the roof and see how many chimneys there are. Go to the cooperative or building manager and talk humanly. Then, when you see that there is a chance to connect the boiler, you will apply for a chimney sweep's opinion. Disagreements on power are out of place here, because no one in 50 m2 will hang a single-function boiler with a tank. Since you do not have heating, you have to install the boiler and even if it is going to be treated, it is difficult.

as007 wrote:

Disagreements on power are out of place here, because no one in 50 m2 will hang a single-function boiler with a tank.

Information about the power is in my opinion the most appropriate to show you what the options are.
In fact, no one will install a single-function boiler + hot water tank for a 50m2 apartment, but who knows, it must always be the first time ;-)

as007 wrote:

Since you do not have heating, you have to install the boiler and even if it is going to be treated, it is difficult.

Nevertheless, it will be much better for a 50m2 apartment if the timing is with a 2-function boiler with a minimum power of 3-4kW than with a boiler with a minimum power of 5-6kW. In that case, this 1-2kW can make a big difference.
And my experience shows that a typical layman buying a boiler has no idea how to choose the power of the boiler and allows himself to press a boiler with a wrongly selected power, although he had a choice and could buy a model better suited to his needs.