For how many hours of TIG welding you need an 8l argon bottle

Hello

As in the title, for how many hours of welding you need an 8l argon bottle (150At) in the tig method.


Today I connected the migatronic delta 160 welder to the tig ... I'm just starting to "play" with the tig.
I wonder how much gas (argon) is available.
There were 145 atmospheres in the bowl, but after not the whole hour (maybe 40 minutes) from the 8l bottle. 110 atmospheres left gas flow 8 l / min 1.6 electrode and NR7 ceramics (because it was installed in the new cable), but I figured out that a lot of gas went, I read that such a bottle lasts for 10 hours, so where is the problem ?? Let me mention that the reducer by perun ..

Could you please write me what gas flow settings for given electrodes and ceramics, and in what configurations they should be used. By design, I will be welding with an electrode of 2,4 and ceramics No. 7, is this a good connection? Of course, for welding ordinary sheets, pipes, etc. How and how is it manifested that there is too little and too much gas?

PS. Is there a virtual course in the network or explanations (tips) about tig welding I watched videos on YouTube and read posts on various forums. But there is not everything in one place, in fact only answers to specific questions .. And there is no step by step (with photos) described what and how.

you can calculate
Ar chemical symbol
Atomic number 18
Molecular weight 40 g / mol
Boiling point - 185.9 ° C
Liquid - Gas Conversion Table *

1 liter of liquid = 0.8243 m3 of gas
1 m3 of gas = 1.2132 liters of liquid
1 kg = 0.5915 m3
the cylinder contains 6 kg of argon
6 * 0.5915 = 3.549 m3 unit 3549l with a flow of approx. 15l / min 236.6 minutes> 3.94 h calculated but usually it is not exactly 6 kg, which is shorter.

That's right, but as you can see in the calculations, 1 kg is assumed, not 1 liter of liquid.
The data comes from the gas distributor and there is 6 kg of compressed gas in the description.
Personally, I measure the contents of the cylinder by weight, i.e. 6 kg. The pressure will be below indications and there is still 0.5 kg in the cylinder
greetings

How is it possible that they write on various forums that they have enough gas for 10 hours of welding. So they would have to have 2-4l / min gas flow, it is possible to weld at such a low flow ... ??

Yes, it is possible to weld with a flow as low as 2-3l / min. Low currents, "wet" handle.
A small cylinder should last for 10 hours, but on one condition that you are using a good 2-section reducer and you have a short cable connecting to the welding machine. I recommend that you add a gas saver.

The Optimator ELGA is a good solution to reduce the amount of shielding gas loss. It is not a cheap solution, but after "4 months of WORK" a certain reimbursement of the purchase costs of this reducer. After a year, MIGATRONIC DELTA 160 returns. You have not written whether it is DELTA E or HF. If E, you don't have anything to buy super reducers, it remains to accept gas losses. If you have problems with DELTA, I provide warranty and post-warranty service. Website at ww.arc-serwis.pl

bori1 wrote:

The Optimator ELGA is a good solution to reduce the amount of shielding gas loss. It is not a cheap solution, but after "4 months of WORK" a certain reimbursement of the purchase costs of this reducer. One year later, the MIGATRONIC DELTA 160 returns.

Everything is correct only the cost of the purchase; /
I recommend optimizers for PLN 100, available here http://www.spaw.info.pl/
It is an additional single-chamber low pressure regulator. It is connected to the output of the reducer and that's it.

Here is descriptive information with additional pictures: Link

Basically stabilization of the gas flow obtained by an additional section. It is not possible for one chamber to provide a stable gas flow at the start and during the pressure drop in the cylinder. No pumping effect, comfortable operation and savings.
Some theory for dessert Link

http://www.gasiq.se/econtent/463/250.html

With all due respect to my colleagues from SPAW B. but I never trusted cheap inventions

Where in Warsaw you can fill your own 8-10L argon bottle.
So far, I have met companies that only lease their own gas cylinders for the appropriate Air Products daily fee Air Products
I deal with jewelry repair and I need to fill 2-3 bottles a year.
The cost of the lease far exceeds the value of the gas purchased, and I do not want to risk my life by buying "disposable" cylinders converted from a fire extinguisher on Allegro.
If anyone can help, please do not hesitate.

orwo777 wrote:

I deal with jewelry repair and I need to fill 2-3 bottles a year.

Don't worry, just make a connector and look for a welder with argon and a large cylinder.
He will let you go for a few zlotys and after the trouble.

By the way, I do some TIG welding. occasionally I bought an original 8L cylinder and at the point where large cylinders are replaced, they always have 1-2 small cylinders for replacement.

I understand that it is about transferring gas from a large cylinder to a small one and this should generally work?

orwo777 wrote:

I understand that it is about transferring gas from a large cylinder to a small one and this should generally work?

It should not and must !!!!!!!!!
This is how I pass oxygen into the 5l cylinder. It is used for the propan-butane-oxygen burner. Due to the fact that I deal with refrigeration, I use this burner quite often.

Well, find out at the cylinder exchange point. Preferably a small one, maybe for a few zlotys. they will arrange one legalized and you will have a legal exchange without any problem.

Bottles with Allegro sometimes have a counterfeit legalization, which a trained eye will recognize. As for the CO2 cylinder converted into argon, it is possible, but it must have a higher strength test. There are many such cylinders in circulation.

More details on the operation of optimizers, gas consumption and the Optimators themselves can be found here

It will heat up the cutlet a little.
I had an idea to get rid of the "puff" at startup, which is to save expensive argon. I know that you can mount the optimator, but in my opinion it is a considerable expense for an amateur welder.
So the idea is this. I buy a solenoid valve, such as is used inside the welding machine (cost about PLN 30), I disassemble the welder and take it out with an additional cable to control this internal valve. I install the purchased valve right behind the reducer and connect it in parallel with that from the welding machine. In this way, the welder closes the gas at the same time in the welder and behind the reducer, thanks to which any increased pressure is created only in the reducer and not in the entire hose, so "pufff" should no longer take place. What do you think about it?

Maybe a good idea, but the valves would have to close at the same time. It would be best if they were the same. And the question is whether the welder will "handle" two solenoid valves at the same time.

These valves are usually powered from 230V and pull about 50mA and are switched on by a relay, so it shouldn't be a problem. Even if just one relay will do the trick. Basically, after installing such a valve, this valve in the welding machine becomes unnecessary and it could be unplugged and the gas should be fed directly to the torch lead. Trza will order and test the valve.