Comparing Efficiency and Cost: Electric Boiler (1500W, 60L) vs. Gas Water Heater

stasiu99 wrote:

Costs for gas:
-the cost for the W-2 tariff is [(2544.38 / 10.55) + 10%] x 1.79 PLN = 474.87 PLN
-the cost for the W-1 tariff is [(2544.38 / 10.55) + 10%] x 1.88 PLN = 498.75 PLN

Since the above calculations were carried out for the example of Wrocław, all of this must be converted to Szczecin.

G-11 - the cost of 1kWh is 0.53kWh
W-1 - the cost of m3 is PLN 1.92
W-2 - the cost of m3 is PLN 1.78

If you get rid of the boiler, electricity bills will drop by PLN 220 for 2 months, and gas bills will increase for 4 months by:
PLN 167 - if the W-1 tariff is maintained
PLN 207 (154 for gas + 53 difference in the subscription for the tariff) - in the case of switching to the W-2 tariff

Because, in principle, I share your position and on February 23, I wrote very similarly:

Quote:

If the boiler uses approx. 5 kWh / day, then after its disposal, your bills will drop by approx. PLN 150/2 months, and you will pay a little more than once for gas, i.e. approx. PLN 180/4 months.
Heating water with gas is much cheaper.

Different results come from, among others from the fact that we assumed different energy consumption per day by the boiler, me 5 and you approx. 7kWh / day. The author of the topic has already solemnly promised 10 days ago that he will give a more accurate value, but somehow the results are not there. However, your calculations are also a bit of a stretch, to the benefit of gas. They show that the energy from electricity is almost 3 times (exactly 1350/490 = 2.8) more expensive than from gas - which, unfortunately, is not true. Since it seems to me that you are not doing it on purpose, I would like to correct your wrong assumptions in my opinion.
First, the cost of 1m? of gas; it largely depends on the amount of raw material used, i.e. to which tariff group we belong; according to the tariff for gaseous fuels by PGNiG, effective from January 1, 2011:
for WI: (1.0262 + 0.6074) PLN / m? + (4.30 + 4.30) PLN / month + VAT = 2.01 PLN / m? + 10.60 PLN / month
calculating the same for WII (over 300m? / year) it is: PLN 1.90 / m? + PLN 22.4 / month.
On average, we can assume the price of gas, for the consumption we are interested in, between 200 and 400m? / year, including fixed charges, approx. PLN 2.5 / m?, where on the border of WI and WII tariffs it will be: for 300m? - 2.4 PLN / m?, and for 301m? - PLN 2.8 / m?, and even with the highest consumption in the WII group (ie 1200m? / year), the price does not fall below PLN 2.2 / m?. Only in the WIII tariff group, with consumption over 3000 m3 / year, the price drops below 2 PLN / m3. So only those who consume a lot of it and spend well over PLN 5,000 / year can buy natural gas at this price.
You also write:

Quote:

The gross calorific value of gas is based on the tariff, not some information material. Have you ever looked at the tariff? And it is this value that should be taken into account in the cost analysis. Not less than 38 MJ per m3, which gives 10.55 kWh per m3.

In fact, the value of the gross calorific value is given in the tariff, however, in our calculations, we must take into account the calorific value of gas, which is provided by PGNiG here:
http://www.pgnig.pl/dladomu/gaz_ziemny
and in my opinion, its minimum value should be adopted, because this is what PGNiG guarantees, and this is 31MJ / m?, ie 8.6kWh / m?, but certainly not more than 9.4kWh / m?.
If we includethe efficiency of the gas flow heater at the level of 90%, then it turns out that from 1 m3 of gas we get only from 7.7 to 8.5 kWh.
In the most favorable circumstances, ie assuming gas consumption of 300m? / year and dividing the minimum price of PLN 2.4 / m? in the WI tariff by 8.5kWh / m?, we get the minimum cost of 1kWh of PLN 0.28.
In unfavorable circumstances, ie PGNiG will provide us with gas only with a minimum calorific value, and at the same time we will fall into the second tariff group (consumption slightly over 300m? / year), then the cost can reach as much as PLN 0.35 / kWh.
Summary
Convincing that heating water with electricity is almost three times more expensive than gas, and that the cost of 1 kWh from gas is below 20 grosz is the same stretching as Col. Wnoto does, claiming that electricity is cheaper and its cost is below 30 gr / kWh.
Regards.

PS
Col. Najkon. If you want specific details, you must enter the daily el. Energy consumption. by boiler and daily (or annual in m? , current gas consumption. Otherwise, there will only be approximate discussions between gas supporters and supporters of electricity.

Welcome back,

I can see the discussion is raging. And in my head everything turned upside down.
I made a weekly measurement of the electricity consumption in the apartment in everyday life.

Results:

Wednesday: 037068 - reading 8:40
Thursday: 037091 - reading 10:10 pm
Friday: 037105 - reading 11:15 pm
Saturday: 037116 - reading 10:20 pm
Sunday: 037140 - reading 22:20

After the boiler was turned off on Sunday at 22:20

Monday 037150 - reading 22:00

I did not take a reading when I turned on the boiler and it was turned off all day.

But you can compare it, because on Wednesday evening, the whole family is a company, and of course, hot water was used on a daily basis (dishes, hand washing, face washing outside / working). Then the boiler was full twice. And he heated it to a temperature of about 40-50 degrees Celsius.
The same thing happened from Saturday to Sunday.

the percentage is similar to me, but I invested in a 60-liter boiler (replacement of the water installation - insulation at the entrance, old junkers saw it like a chimney sweep - death looked into his eyes) electronically controlled with additional functions. I can rent a flat in the bathroom (only 3 sq m) and the owner insisted that the junkers were operational. It turned out that when buying a new Junkers - the price of about PLN 800 plus the opinion of the chimney sweep for this gas generator is over PLN 1000. and there is also the cost of a new flue gas discharge, which must also be made of a suitable material, which is therefore expensive (the old discharge is 7cm * 10cm located at a height of 3.40m, the junkers themselves are at a height of 2m, junkers do not have a flue gas discharge pipe to the chimney, in addition, the drain passes through the bathroom through a channel made of ordinary rectangular sheet metal). So I am leaning towards the boiler. The boiler will heat the water during the second tariff hours, the washing machine washes during the second tariff hours. I have to pay for the electricity anyway. unless I can find a sponsor for all the gas fun. The boiler was half the price of a Junker.

Hello
I am new and reading the posts I can see that there are a lot of people in the topic.
Can someone describe to me what is better to heat the water in my case?

I have the option of connecting the gas, but I would have to pull it up and these are already costs (plans, projects, etc.)
and I wonder if it is better to buy a large electric heater by force.
My assumptions:
A family of 3,
I need hot water for a shower
and these are my rates:
gas PLN 1.1 + fixed fees etc.
electricity I tariff approx. 30 gr
II night tariff 19 gr

you can tell me what will be more beneficial.
Thank you in advance

Hello,
I will stick to the topic
I have read the entire thread, but I have a terrible message in my head ...
I bought a flat, the heating is from the city but the water needs to be heated, the previous owner had a Junker, but I got rid of him right away because he was old and it was scary to fire him. I thought that it was enough to buy a new one and swept it, but the stairs started, it turned out that the gas installation had to be replaced with a copper one, an acid-proof cartridge was needed for the chimney, for this turbo thermo, because it is safer, expertise, labor, I'm afraid I have to spend about 5,000 on all this, of course, the cost of buying a boiler would be incomparably lower, but I am afraid of electricity bills. I will add that I will only live in the apartment with my daughter. I wonder if it makes sense to pack in such costs related to the terma or to let go and install a boiler.
I am asking for help, maybe my head will brighten.
Regards

What was the gas installation like? Is it made of steel pipes? Is it not overdone with this necessity to replace? Perhaps it is enough to remove the leaks in the installation (if the pipes are not corroded). There are companies that seal gas installations by spraying polymers from the inside (this is done, among others, by Parametr in Krakow). Electric water heating will always be expensive (1 m3 of gas equals about 11kWh of electricity). In addition, the boiler takes up a lot of space and requires a solid suspension (it weighs often over 100 kg with water), and it usually takes a few hours for the water to heat up in the boiler (when you want to heat up to max.). The electric flow heater has a very high power, so it must have a three-phase power supply and an installation adapted to such a heavy load (only tiny heaters can be powered by single-phase current - even from a socket, but the water stream is very small and water only at body temperature). However, it would be best to give a JUNKERS (but a real one, i.e. the Junkers brand).
PS In my block, the Parameter company sealed the gas installation (riser) with polymers last year. The building is 48 years and 3 months old today.

RudY0LKR wrote:

you can tell me what will be more beneficial.

Financially, gas will always be more profitable. However, it all depends on what expenses you have to incur to be able to use gas water heating and for how long they will pay you back. You should calculate the costs of heating water, e.g. yearly, gas and electricity, calculate the difference and compare it to the costs you have to incur for gas, chimney and ventilation systems.
To compare anything, you need real information and numbers. After all, energy prices should be carefully calculated, and not just anything. If you would use gas for something other than heating water, you do not take into account the fixed components of the price of m3, then it is about 1.80-2.00 per m3, depending on the tariff. If you use electricity for something else (and probably so) than for water heating, you also do not take into account the solid components of 1 kWh, then it is about 0.55-0.6 per 1kWh.
As for the second tariff, it is a problematic matter, because you have to assume that the boiler will continue to use all the energy for heating water in the second tariff. In fact, it is difficult to meet this condition. And the second is that the costs of daily electricity consumption are a bit higher.
In fact, the amount of water you need to heat is decisive here. And unfortunately, the more this water is, the more profitable gas is.

Agy74 wrote:

I am asking for help, maybe my head will brighten.

The question is whether these changes to the chimney, pipes, etc. are required from you by the building administration and chimney sweep, or is it just a troublemaker.
When the administration, i.e. you launched the official replacement of the heater, "surely" nothing can be done about it and the costs of modernization adapting to the new requirements should be borne. You can only raise the issue in the administration, why only the new owner has to modernize the chimney and gas installations, and the previous owner did not have to do it. They were obligated to inspect, and they should force it on the previous owner. Ask why you should bear the cost of all this. Some people even go to court with such matters ...
If these expenditures were calculated by the fitter, then maybe the pipes and the chimney are not in good condition and need to be replaced and inserted, or he wants to stretch you. These steel pipes would have to be very old to have to be replaced.

If nobody knows about it yet that you want to replace the heater, hire a "normal" specialist, let him connect you with the new one (not a turbo, but an ordinary one) instead of the old one. If you are lucky, no one will find out about anything. Just make sure that after installation, this specialist checks the tightness of the gas connection, the chimney draft and whether the heater's protection is working in case of lack of draft ...

As for the costs, even the 5,000 what you will have to spend - the cost of the boiler will be returned to you after about 5-6 years. If you are going to live there longer, it will rather pay off. The differences in the cost of heating water between a gas heater and electricity are large.

Hello,
I was away for a long time, thanks for the advice, I still have a request, but I decided to use gas, I want a stove with a closed combustion chamber, I hesitate about a specific stove, between TERMET AquA COMFORT turbo G-19-03m and Junkers Celsius, Immergas Ceasar. Hint please, maybe someone uses the above-mentioned stoves and can share an opinion about them.
Thank you in advance and best regards