Electric boiler - Water heating in the old block (what boiler?)

Question

Good morning, I live in a block of flats from the 1960s, in which water is heated by means of flow gas stoves, I personally have Junkers, who was in the apartment when I bought it 5 years ago. This year, the stove has been serviced twice. However, this did not save me from problems with carbon...

krisxxl · Answer

Hello

The description of the electrical installation shows that the electric boiler will be a mistake and a problem generator. This installation may not be able to cope and the issue of electric shock protection remains. I am afraid that it will be free of charge here. not to mention the consumption of electricity.

As for the described problems with a gas water heater, it looks like an airtight apartment, i.e. an airtight entrance door and no micro ventilation in the eyes. What can you do here ?: as it was mentioned, open temporarily, or at least unseal windows, perform a proper review of the chimney and ventilation system, install a decent grille in the bathroom door if it is not there, and invest in a good carbon monoxide detector. All this should be done in the perspective of a few months hot water installation.

best regards

Krystian

a.pe · Answer

Thank you very much for your reply, unfortunately the matter gets complicated because:

the administration says I have to open / unseal the windows and ventilation will work. In addition, I have to open the bathroom door, because despite the drilled holes in the door, ventilation works only then (I checked it by putting a piece of paper on the ventilation grille). Chimney sweeps from the administration carried out checks and in fact everything works when the windows are open (only at -10C outside it is difficult to take a shower / wash the child with the windows and bathroom door open).

Junkers' serviceman said that even if the stove is operational (and I suspect it is not, because it stopped shutting down despite flue gas receding), it will not allow its use, if there is no proper ventilation and he does not care about the opinion of the administration people - operate also with windows closed. In the administration, however, I heard that stove servicemen don't know each other and mislead people.

I have already bought the sensor, it was thanks to him that I discovered carbon monoxide at the level of 150 ppm for the last time - the fire brigade came and forbade using the stove until I got the consent of the service technician.

This way the circle closes. Hence the idea for an electric boiler: /

krisxxl · Answer

Hello

Well, if so, then it remains to call a qualified electrician, who will check the condition of the installation in the premises and answer the question: is it safe to use the boiler here. It's hard to go on without it. The boiler has a load of 1500 watts up, so the installation must be operational. But the most important is electric shock protection - if it is not provided, then the boiler cannot be operated.

best regards

Krystian

Zbigniew Rusek · Answer

No electric water heater will work. First of all - electrical installation. The boiler must have a large capacity, i.e. it takes up a lot of space. Heating the entire boiler also lasts - the heater is usually 1500 or 2000 W and heating the whole e.g. 80-liter tank is a couple of hours (but heating up to 80 degrees so that there is enough for a shower for more than one person). Electric instantaneous water heater - no way. To ensure the comfort of using hot water, it would have to have enormous power (at least 18 kW), and this requires almost industrial power supply (not only 3-phase, but adequate power). Junkers should stay, but you have to earn some extra money in the windows. ventilators and chimney sweeps should remove the chimney fault.
Was it a simultaneous switching on the washer and dryer that was about the hair dryer? The dryer works briefly, but the current ones sometimes have a lot of power. In the blocks from the 1960s, there was one light circuit and one for all plug sockets in the apartment, while both the lighting circuit and the plug socket circuit were protected with a 10 A fuse. If 10 A light is much more than necessary, but for plug sockets it is definitely not enough. I once had a problem with an automatic washing machine, which means that when you were washing on a program that requires slightly higher temperatures (longer operation of the washing machine with the heater on), the automatic fuse would pop up, even if only the refrigerator was turned on with the washing machine (the fridge does not turn off sockets, except for defrosting). The washing machine had 2260 W, and the current had a voltage of 220 V (today 230), i.e. 10 A it was then 2200 W. So the washing machine itself has already exceeded 10 A. Refrigerator - probably about 150 W. I asked the former conservator of the estate (technician-electrician ), could a 16 A fuse be given. He said that the cables have some reserve, but he suggested that 16 A should not be fully loaded, because 16 A will give these wires completely without reserve. I changed the fuse (myself - it was also necessary to unscrew the calibration insert and change it to a 16 A fuse - it was an automatic screw-in fuse, not eska) and now I have 16 A (the wires have 1.5 mm2). I believe that the computer should not go with the laundry at the same time, and even avoid turning on the TV set (so as not to burden the installation) and there is no question of turning on the air conditioner together with the washing machine. Now it is built differently (in one apartment there are more electrical circuits for sockets) and good, because the then construction in terms of electrical installations does not work today. By the way, a 10 A fuse can be blown, e.g. with an electric kettle switched on together with another power receiver. And today the sockets are adapted to 16 A (then 10 A sockets were produced), i.e. - nominally - today one plug socket will withstand a greater load than the then entire electrical circuit of all plug sockets in the apartment.

kortyleski · Answer

Dude, don't write nonsense. With a 1.5 mm cable, the maximum protection is 10A. The exchange for larger is later mentioned on the TV under the slogan fire.
I suggest meeting the electrician and maybe adding a separate circuit to the boiler. Electricity is always safer than rocking, because what, when you use warm water will you open windows?

a.pe · Answer

From what I learned in the Cooperative, the electrical installation in the apartment is adapted to 4kW. So I wonder if assuming that the boiler has a power of 1.5-2 kW and not using the washing machine / dishwasher / dryer / iron at the same time, the current installation should be ok?

I honestly admit that I do not want to generate costs, because this is a temporary solution for the next few months (hence I would not really like to create a completely new boiler circuit).

As for the device itself, I was considering buying a 50l boiler. Is there a company worth recommending? I have heard about Kospel, Lemet and Galmet - maybe some of you have experience with devices of these companies? Or maybe in this particular case it is worth buying a used boiler?

The next issue is the cost of electricity. I really need hot water twice a day - a quick shower in the morning, a shower for me and the child in the evening. Could anyone of you help me calculate the approximate cost of energy consumed in a single tariff system?
I would also like to ask about the use of this type of device - is it more profitable for the above needs to turn on the boiler about 2-3 hours before bathing, or maintain a constant water temperature of about 45 degrees? I know you can get a timer, but that's another cost I want to avoid at the moment.

I will be very grateful for any hints, because I am a complete layman in this topic.

vodiczka · Answer

It is difficult to answer because it depends on the thermal insulation of the tank. Theoretically, it is always more profitable to switch on only before bathing, but with good thermal insulation of the tank and water temperature not exceeding 45 ° C, the differences in costs will be minimal. I have a 60l boiler on the plot, turn it on before washing and heat to 40-42 degrees. Water is enough to wash (shower) two people and remains a little warm in the boiler. Minus solution - sometimes I forget to turn on at the right time

Zbigniew Rusek · Answer

That is why this electrician (technician-electrician) warned me that if I give this 16A fuse to the socket circuit, I would not use this 16A to the maximum, because with this wire cross-section it would be without reserve. Unfortunately, such was the construction that for the whole apartment (not only 1 room with kitchen, but e.g. 3-rooms with kitchen), one electrical circuit was provided for all sockets, with 10A protection (1.5mm2 wires; for lighting there are probably wires 1mm2 and 10 A fuse, but too much for lighting). It can be said that from today's point of view, such an electrical installation is unusable (a 10 A fuse can blow up the washing machine working together with the fridge). I had this before changing the fuse - only washing at 40 degrees (short) was carried out without blowing the 10 A fuse - washing already at 50 or 60 degrees caused the fuse to blow, let alone washing at 90 degrees. At the time when this block was put into use (1963, i.e. I was not in the world), washing machines were unknown, the average vacuum cleaner was below 200-300 W, up to 400 W, iron - up to 600 W, but the average TV set - 200 In (and today 50 W). And there were no electric kettles (the first were 1000 W - ceramic ones, and the current ones usually have 2000 W or more - I saw a 3000 W kettle in the supermarket once).

Electric boiler - Water heating in the old block (what boiler?)

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