Heating from a 33 kg cylinder - Combination boiler consumes 33 kg of gas per wee

Hello. I have a mega problem !!!! I have a Junkers Ceraklass dual-function boiler with a closed combustion chamber, I use it to heat a 33 square meter apartment in a tenement house and to heat water while showering, I cook practically nothing and I have a 33 kg propane gas cylinder in a week. At the beginning, the boiler turned on and reheated exactly every three minutes, after purchasing the TYBOX programmable thermostat, the boiler turns on every 10-15 minutes and the cylinder also lasts only for 7 days and the cost of one cylinder is PLN 200 every month is PLN 800 for heating 33 square meters of a studio apartment. What may be the reason for such consumption of gas, let me mention that my uncle has the same boiler and heats a large house with it and his boiler turns on every 40 minutes, which results in much lower gas consumption. I am asking for any hint. ; (

Heat losses, excessive ventilation, etc. The boiler and combustion efficiency alone.

Call a service technician here, adjustment is needed. And on the website www.inproel.pl there is an interesting form for calculating heat losses in rooms. Knowing the heat losses, the boiler efficiency and the calorific value of the gas, it is possible to approximately estimate the operating costs. Do you have new windows? Middle apartment? Insulated walls? These are the most common causes of heat leakage from an apartment.

Thanks for the answers
The apartment is corner, and the neighbors warm one wall a bit, two walls are completely outside, and one wall overlooks the staircase and nothing warms it, the building is an old, uninsulated tenement house. The windows were replaced with plastics in November. The door to the apartment is new and today the gasket has been replaced with a thicker new one (because it was cold from the corridor).

Propane is more expensive, but when we ordered propane-butane for PLN 150 at GAS-POL, 1/4 of the cylinder froze in severe frosts, so we decided to use propane. The service technician who started the boiler set it to the lowest power, although I have the impression that he simply did not know it.

HORROR!!!! Today we ran out of a cylinder (33 kg) after 5 days, the previous one after 7 days, i.e. 5 kg of gas per day, PLN 1000 for gas per month to heat 33 sq m of flat (gas goes mainly to heating the apartment and showering, and once per day, no cooking) We are considering dismantling this economical stove. Let me mention that we have a cable thermoregulator installed and although the stove turns on every 10 minutes and not every three, a 33 kg bottle is enough for a maximum of a week and now even for 5 days. HELP

Changing the stove does not do much here. You have to think about warming this apartment. The apartment is on the ground floor? If so, you can insulate the basement ceiling, it will not be so pulled from the floor. As for the external walls, you can also apply to the administrator for an insulation permit, sometimes it is successful, especially when the tenement house is not a historic building and the walls are facing the yard. I think that first you need to reduce heat losses and only then think about changing the heat source to a more economical one.

33 kg of liquid gas = ~ 16 m3 / 5 days = 3.2 m3 / day, which with natural gas would be ~ 12 m3 / day. This is the average consumption for a house with an area of 150m2. Call another service technician - let him check the burner settings by the first one.

Thank you for your answer. And what does it mean to check the burner? That is, checking the boiler power, because the power is reduced to 8kw, I mention that our boiler has a closed combustion chamber.

Hello.

Agata1985 wrote:

... The door to the apartment is new and today the gasket has been replaced with a thicker new one (because it was cold from the corridor).

And now he doesn't pull anymore? Are there two pipes in the chimney (pipe in pipe)? How are flue gases discharged and how is fresh air supplied to the boiler?

I read and I do not believe it would be cheaper to heat with an electric farel.

A special pipe, adapted to the stove, comes out of the boiler, an acid-resistant pipe with a pink pattern, so that it lets out the fumes and draws in air. it is mounted with a bit of bleed as it should be.
When deciding on a boiler, they announced that the apartment would be boiled with water and a beach. It is also cold, the thermostat is set to 21.5 degrees, the stove heats up for a long time, turning on every now and then. There are 3 heaters in an Apartment with a kitchenette
2 for the window, width 800 x 600, two-panel and one in the kitchen, height 800 x 600, 3-panel, ladder in the bathroom. it is cool in the apartment, sitting in shorts is almost impossible.

Unfortunately, it must be clearly stated here that such gas combustion in such a boiler is quite "normal". Previously, the technical documentation stated the approximate amount of gas that a given boiler burns during an hour of continuous operation. And so, for LPG it was about 1.5-1.9 kg / h. Since it consumes about 5 kg of gas per day, it is a possible result. In addition, the structure of the building does its job, and this is the issue that you should take care of. Replacing the boiler will not do anything, and probably also re-adjustment, although it can be checked. I think that such an obvious obviousness as the conversion of the LPG boiler took place ??

The apartment is on the ground floor, I am afraid that the cellars will have to be insulated with polystyrene, it is cold from the floor, possibly that could be the reason. I am a bit shocked because I thought that for a 30-meter flat, the radiators I have are enough, but as I mentioned, it is cold in the apartment, the stove turns on all the time and somehow cannot heat up the flat. He will try to call a service technician who will come and try to adjust it again. Maybe the earlier one didn't know each other very well. It seemed to me that this stove has great possibilities, and I can see that it can not even heat up the apartment. Others say that 21 degrees in the apartment is warm enough. In the new blocks, the temperature is the same and you feel warm, but here it is not, the thermometer shows 21 and you feel like 19.

Added after 4 [minutes]:

and the retooling, of course, of course, it was done by an earlier service technician, now I wonder if he screwed up something sometimes. How this stove can heat houses 150 m, how is it really hard to heat a flat 30 m. For common sense, if I count how much would such a heating of the house go, I think you need to rob a bank. Therefore, I am still of the opinion that there is something wrong with the boiler

What is your currently set boiler output and what is the heating water temperature?

Buddy, check how long it takes to cool down the flat from 20'C to 15'C after the stove is turned off.
And you already know where you are.
Just do not open the door and the ventilation during this time, it will let you know how quickly heat is escaping and how quickly it needs to be added.

boiler power is set to 8 kw. Apparently, this is enough for 100 meters, the knob on the stove is set to 60 degrees. Heats the water to 65 degrees on the thermostat from the stove pump.
I am also in constant contact with my friend who sets up the boilers.
Recently, he talked to a friend of a service technician, introduced him to what I wrote. The service technician stated that the costs should be half as much, i.e. PLN 500 per month. It may very well be that if I am 3 meters high, it is possible that the volume of the room itself is too large for the radiators I have, and the radiators do not give off the appropriate heat to the volume of the flat. Today I will measure the rooms exactly, my friend will see what radiators should be in the catalog.
I feel that in summer I will lower the ceiling and warm the floor. When I deal with the problem, I will write it. Perhaps one day someone will find some valuable tips.

Agata1985 wrote:

I am 3 meters high

It would be nice 40cm down + 20cm wool.

You have a few problems
1- heat escape to the basement, walls.
2. high flat
3. TOO SMALL radiators
4. Bad stove regulation.
Start with insulating the basement, lowering the ceiling will do almost nothing.
Add as many heaters as you have, and this ladder is laughter ..
Assume a power requirement of 200 W / m2 and a power supply of 75 degrees Celsius, count the radiators and you will be surprised ..
Now you have the classic effect of the system with a small volume of water (you do not have even 80 liters, measure how much you filled) and behind the small radiators --- effect - the room thermostat forces heating, the stove starts, after a while the circulating water reaches the temperature of the emergency shutdown (from overheating) of the stove As the stove turns, the circulation pump turns as the water cools down all over again. heaters (actually radiators ...) are unable to give off that amount of heat. Check - they are whole - top and bottom are hot.
AD HOC-
raise the water temperature on the stove to about 80 degrees. max. 85!
and buy these heaters .. and polystyrene for the basement ..
By the way, who designed it ??? Do you have any calculations ??
Is he an installer, what did he do with his brother-in-law?

Somehow I have not yet seen a heating project for an apartment in a tenement house
The losses are big and they take a lot of gas, the boiler regulation will not change anything here.
Without limiting the losses, such gas consumption will be and it is not particularly high.
say hello to Adam

I cannot agree that the gas consumption is not high because there are huge 33 kg of propane cylinder, which is enough for a week on average. as a colleague above wrote 12m 3 of natural gas a day. So this is a lot, I am looking for the cause in the radiators and the heat loss

I do not know..
about 20 m3 of gas a day for the house (half such a surprise, 1/3 adjacent to the neighbor, a post-German flat roof (20 cm of wool) insulated with polystyrene, two floors in total 200 m2 .... enough, in the middle of the 23st ... radiators ..

Walker29 wrote:

W.Wojtek wrote:

I do not know..
(..) Add these radiators ..

If he adds these radiators, the power of the receivers will increase and even more gas will go, but the thermal comfort will certainly improve.

But the boiler will be able to work all the time on modulation (if the service technician has not limited it to zero ..). No timing - very common with the rest.
Turn off the room thermostat and manually set the central heating supply temperature.
And this "towel" is a failure. I do not understand the purpose of the production (apart from the profit of the manufacturer and the seller of course) of small bathroom radiators. These several dozen watts (!) At low supply temperatures for the rest of the installation in the bathroom are completely pointless. After all, the bathroom has the greatest losses on ventilation (at least it should have) and at the same time should have the highest temperature to maintain thermal comfort!
The radiator is supposed to heat, not look. It is better to use a separate hanger / dryer for towels.

What is the purpose of this system ??
It MUST be warm in the hut.
If the radiators are too small, they will not give up the necessary amount of heat. the stove will go crazy and everything described above.
Install radiators and increase boiler water temperature.
The room thermostat may be, but the valves in the radiators open to max.

Walker29 wrote:

To what extent will this reduce gas consumption?
Because it seems to me that the topic was created for this purpose.

No back-to-back measures will help, you just need to do thermal insulation.

It would be good to look for a friend with a thermal camera and see `` warm places ''

I called an authorized service technician, he found that the stove had a fault, namely the control board, so the stove turned on every 3 minutes, then overheated and turned off in an emergency, and so on over and over again. I practically do not see big savings on gas because it is getting warmer outside. But one fault was found.

Added after 4 [minutes]:

The cost is PLN 50, the fact that the stove was under warranty because the plate itself costs PLN 800. But the previous service technician who cheated me took PLN 400.

Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:

I read and I do not believe it would be cheaper to heat with an electric farel.

Not necessarily a farelka, but a convector for sure. See http://www.drono.pl/konwektorowe/
Propane from a cylinder is more expensive than refueled into a domestic tank. And home propane heating is equal to or more expensive than electrics. From what I read earlier, this installation works at the performance limit. The proof is that the cylinder with a propane-butane mixture is freezing. Pure propane has a much lower boiling point, therefore the entire cylinder is emptied. However, propane is less caloric and more expensive than the mixture. So you should not use solutions such as a 33 kg cylinder at all, unless temporarily for the duration of the earth connection.