[Solved] What dual function gas boiler up to 50 m flat on the top floor in a block of fla

Boiler replacement please advice what boiler in 2018
Immergas or arriston or junkers, 50 m2 flat, 3 rooms, kitchen and bathroom, plus hot water.
I am asking for advice, I will add that it was 40 years old, I want a new one with a closed combustion chamber.

The brand is less important now, because they all stick to a similar hoof, so you have to treat the new boiler as an investment for 10 or over a dozen years.
Each condensing boiler has a closed combustion chamber. It is worth noting that there are also condensing boilers, not full condensate. Boilers with an open combustion chamber are now a niche.

central heating + domestic hot water is rather a 2-function boiler, although you can consider a slightly larger boiler with a built-in domestic hot water tank with a capacity of approx. 50 l.

In terms of what I would pay attention to, that the minimum power of such a boiler would be at the level of about 3kW, instead of e.g. 5kW, because 5kW will be useful only in cold weather -20, and for most of the cold you will need a maximum of half of it, i.e. 2.5kW .
Recently I saw Junkers Cerapur Compact ZWB 24-1 DE and as a 2-function boiler it seems to be OK.

I confirm the words of my friend BUCKS as much as possible - look for a boiler with the lowest possible minimum power for CO.

Find out in the cooperative what are the possibilities for a chimney for condensing boilers - is it possible to convert a "normal" chimney into one for boilers with a closed combustion chamber.

It's like colleagues write, look at the power of min. and look for a good service technician. Big city and probably every brand has several service technicians.

How much gas did you burn in previous heating seasons?

wnoto wrote:

How much gas did you burn in previous heating seasons?

Write directly that you want to propose electric heating, it will be easier, because someone else will believe that you actually want to advise on the choice of gas boiler

Put yourself in the place of the author / author of the thread.
Which is easier to replace a gas boiler with a new one, or plowing the current central heating / hot water and doing everything from scratch in terms of electricity.
For electricity to be profitable, this requires energy to be stored at night, when electricity is cheaper in heating tariffs.
In the event of switching to electricity, hot water requires an 80l boiler, which you will not hide in a 50m apartment.
There are visual and aesthetic aspects involved, space availability, the scope of necessary modernization works, etc.
If someone is not planning a major renovation, the transition from gas to electricity is virtually unrealistic.

I don't know if he wants to propose an electrician. It depends on how warm the apartment is and what expenses are needed to change the furnace.

However, questions about consumption in previous years should be in my opinion a standard in this forum - it's just like the question about the size of the apartment .. It is based on such information we are able to advise something and ... not always on one hoof. It is not even known if there are radiators or a floor (and only it makes sense to consider electrics)

BUCKS wrote:

Which is easier to replace a gas boiler with a new one, or plowing the current central heating / hot water and doing everything from scratch in terms of electricity.

That's what needs to be determined ... condensing boilers require a different chimney (insert) and condensate drainage. It is not always easy and cheap.
You saw yesterday's FACTS about the gas explosion.
It may be better to give the author an alternative (if it has economic sense). Let him make his choice.

There are more alternatives. The author lives on the top floor. With low demand for heat - it may be worth it to add an air conditioner and heat ... and cool the apartment. In my opinion, these elements are worth combining sometimes.
And not every time you write .... "I suggest .... Termet / Junkers with minimal burner output"



And when we write only about gas boilers, we do not give such an alternative. And 90% of those who write such questions have never calculated or sometimes it is not worth using other heating.

I will add that I have the chimney sweep's consent to the chimney, and I'm still interested in this air conditioning with the heating function?
The block is insulated, the windows replaced, radiators under the windows 4 pcs and a ladder in the bathroom, bathroom so small that the boiler will be in the kitchen.
Gas consumption 429 or 395 or 272 m 3 - depends how winter was.

Currently, each air conditioner can heat up to -10C. So it extracts heat from the "cold" air and provides heat to the apartment.
For example, at the current price of G11 55 gr and an average SCOP of about 3 (air conditioner parameter), you have heat at a price of 55gr / 3 = 18.33 gr / kWh heat. Compared to gas - I would risk even cheaper (because SCOP above 3.0 is no feat at present).
With such an air conditioner, e.g. in the living room, you can constantly heat this room and indirectly other (but poorly). The air conditioner can draw as much electricity as needed to provide heat in the room - most often it is several hundred Watt. The plus is that it cools in the summer. As you read the labels of air conditioners, now it is clearly said that the air conditioner on average works more time in winter than in summer - although many people have not even thought about it before But the air conditioner is such a heat pump in a compact version. There are people who heat only with air conditioners = but I do not recommend it (they are those who work up to -35C). I consider it down to -10C
Added after 21 [minutes]:

Zaz.a wrote:

Gas consumption 429 or 395 or 272 m 3 - depends how winter was.

Here @BUCKS he is better at these blocks (more meticulous ... almost like an accountant and I value it) ... but it is really low consumption. I will try to calculate something to show the costs and the relationship between annual operating costs and investment costs.

Let's assume (the highest consumption) 429 m2 is about 4300 kWh (but it will probably be less because the old boiler was probably very uneconomical and probably it is really worth taking 80% from 429m3). i.e. 4300 x 0.55 = PLN 2,365. This would be an approximate cost of heating with electricity if you were heating with an ordinary electric heater in the G11 tariff. Gas - it was probably much cheaper (probably closer to PLN 1,000).

If you would get all this heat from the air conditioner (SCOP 3.5), the cost of heating the apartment would be 2365 / 3.5 = 675 PLN !!!
An important difference The warmer the winter, the SCOP grows! But with one split air conditioner you won't heat the whole apartment.

I encourage you to install the air conditioner ... even if it is electricity. To reduce electricity costs, read about G12 tariffs, among others o G12as, g12w. In your case as found (even if you choose gas) !!!!

but this is not complete data to make a decision. It is worth and in my opinion collect the total costs of changing the boiler + chimney + condensate (will the boiler be in the place of the old one) and only then make the final decision. I don't delete gas !!! These arguments serve more to show that it is worth looking around and making informed decisions.

In your case, the downside is the lack of a floor that would accumulate heat for a long time. Are you planning a major renovation in the near future?

The disadvantages of air conditioning are mainly the breeze from the air conditioner (constantly blowing slightly).

wnoto wrote:

It is based on such information that we are able to advise something and ... not always on one hoof

Have you read the question?
To sum up, I have an old boiler, I want a new one that you recommend in 2018.
There was no question how and how to heat the apartment.
The hoof will always be the same. There is gas or electricity in the apartment, because there is usually no other alternative.

wnoto wrote:

condensing boilers require a different chimney (insert) and condensate drainage. It is not always easy and cheap.

If someone has an old boiler with a chimney liner and exchanges for a new one, there is usually no major problem. In the apartment, the boiler is usually in the kitchen or bathroom, and there is a sewage system, so there is no major problem with the drainage of condensate. Last floor, so the chimney is rather short, so the costs are lower.
For those who want nothing difficult, and problems can always be found.

wnoto wrote:

You saw yesterday's FACTS about the gas explosion.

I haven't seen it but if you mean Bydgoszcz then first of all it is not natural gas from the city network but probably propane-butane and this is trash. With a leak, PB cannot be ventilated like natural gas, because PB is heavier than air and lies on the floor, so even with the window and door open you may have an explosive mixture.
On the other hand, many people die in car accidents, you will be an advocate of cycling on forest roads, public transport, or maybe it is better not to leave the house.

wnoto wrote:

With such an air conditioner, e.g. in the living room, you can constantly heat this room and indirectly other (but poorly)

In short, 1pc is a poor idea in an apartment with several rooms for heating.
Another matter is the matter of formal consents for the installation of such miracles. The consent of the building owner is rare, and those who have it can feel lucky.
Maybe the climate is cool but not very realistic in practice.

Zaz.a wrote:

Gas consumption 429 or 395 or 272 m 3 - depends how winter was.

As an insulated building, it is also a small demand and then you can consider electric heating, you can only choose storage heaters or underfloor or wall heating to accumulate heat.
But there is no simple method here, the change from gas to electricity also means considerable financial outlays and basically a general renovation of the apartment.
Somewhere you have to live, so it seems logical that the least problem is replacing the boiler with a new one than switching gas to electricity.
The decision is yours.

I am still thinking about the immergas boiler