logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda
Advanced Search
logo elektroda

GSW Bus Connection: Understanding PE Rail, WLZ Wires, PEN Separation, and Grounding Earth Electrode

ROSOMAK7 39609 27
Best answers

How should the main equipotential bonding bus (GSW/GSU) be connected in a house with a 4-wire supply, PEN split on the PE bus, and a foundation earth electrode?

Yes — the general idea is correct: the equipotential bonding rail should be placed as close as possible to the conductive services entering the building, ideally all gathered in one place [#11986145] The PE busbar in the switchboard should be connected to the GSW/GSU, and the GSW is where you bond the building’s metallic foreign conductive parts, such as metal pipes, a boiler, or a metal bathtub when they are actually part of a conductive installation [#11988509][#11988517] If a tap or fixture is installed on plastic pipes and is not connected to a conductive pipe system, it should not be bonded as a separate “grounded” part [#11986415][#11988328] The existence of a PEN split in the service connection does not make the grounding of the GSW dependent on whether PEN or PE is brought into the switchboard, and the grounding of PEN at the supply point is the utility’s responsibility, not yours [#12004683][#12004817] The purpose of these connections is equipotential bonding: reducing dangerous touch voltages and keeping accessible conductive parts at the same potential [#12003456]
Generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
Report a violation of the law
Reply | New topic
  • #1 11985782
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Hello, I know that the topic has been discussed many times, but somehow it does not appeal to me.
    Namely, what should the GSW bus connection look like? Let's assume that we have a four-wire WLZ led to the RG, where the separation (on the PE bus) PEN to PE and N is connected to the PE bus, sockets are connected to the PE rail, and then we pull the (thick) wire from the PE bus to the GSW located e.g. in the basement to which we connect metal pipes, taps, bathtubs, boiler ... and the GSW itself is connected to the hoop iron which is screwed to the foundation earth electrode. I understand it well? Should it look like the picture shows? GSW Bus Connection: Understanding PE Rail, WLZ Wires, PEN Separation, and Grounding Earth Electrode
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #2 11986145
    .Jack
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 1142
    Help: 361
    Rate: 425
    ROSOMAK7 wrote:
    Should it look like the picture shows?

    Actually, the idea is like the picture shows.
    You should only strive for the equalizing rail to be as close as possible to the conductive media introduced into the building, which are preferably close to each other in one place.
  • #3 11986415
    gogi20
    Level 24  
    Posts: 794
    Help: 42
    Rate: 128
    ROSOMAK7 wrote:
    then, from the PE rail, pull the (thick) cable to the GSW located e.g. in the basement to which we connect metal pipes, taps, bathtubs, boiler .......

    If, for example, metal taps are not on metal pipes, but the installation is made of plastic, we do not ground such taps. The same goes for other metal sanitary "fixtures". I do not know if you know about it, but I wrote it so as not to miss it.
  • #4 11986455
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Yes, I know that taps on plastic pipes are not grounded, acrylic bathtubs ... sometimes in such a small single-family house, there is nothing to ground? What exactly is a foundation earth electrode? is the slab reinforcement? if so, we attach a rope to it and that's it? because reinforcement is not connected to the ground. So the hoop also has to go into the ground?

    The sentence starts with a capital letter. [retrofood]

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    Or maybe thick wire driven into the ground is used for this and connected to the reinforcement and then concreted?
  • Helpful post
    #5 11986476
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl  
    Posts: 31317
    Help: 1140
    Rate: 4781
    ROSOMAK7 wrote:
    What exactly is a foundation earth electrode?


    Such a freak:

    Foundation earth electrode
  • #6 11986494
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Buddy, recommended (obligatory?) Reading.
    Firstly Link
    Later PN HD 60364 5-54.

    Without familiarizing yourself with these materials, you will not know what to do and why.
  • #7 11986515
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Ok, if the house has several floors, then you have to connect to each "slab" or only to the lowest one?
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #8 11986523
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Read, read, read.
    The number of storeys does not affect the foundation earth electrode.
  • #9 11986544
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    kkas12 wrote:
    Buddy, recommended (obligatory?) Reading.
    Firstly Link
    Later PN HD 60364 5-54.

    Without familiarizing yourself with these materials, you will not know what to do and why.

    Ok, so far I'm not going to do anything, at most I'm trying to get SEP qualifications but first I'd like to know a little bit.

    Added after 4 [minutes]:

    Suppose it is 10m from GSW to, for example, a boiler and a stove, but these two devices are 2 meters apart. So is it enough to connect the stove to the boiler and then pull the cable to GSW? do both devices have to be connected separately?
    The question may be a little pointless.
  • Helpful post
    #10 11986620
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    However, you are probably lazy.

    What you are asking Dr. Musial explained in an accessible way.
    So is the norm.
    GSW Bus Connection: Understanding PE Rail, WLZ Wires, PEN Separation, and Grounding Earth Electrode
  • #11 11986788
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Thanks for your help, I'll start reading as soon as I have time.
  • #12 11988328
    stomat
    Level 39  
    Posts: 5600
    Help: 255
    Rate: 1952
    gogi20 wrote:

    If, for example, metal taps are not on metal pipes, but the installation is made of plastic, we do not ground such taps. The same goes for other metal sanitary "fixtures". I do not know if you know about it, but I wrote it so as not to miss it.

    I would like to add that we do not ground taps on metal pipes, we "ground" the pipes themselves.
  • #13 11988478
    janek1815
    Level 38  
    Posts: 4513
    Help: 372
    Rate: 1055
    I read this and I have a confusion, since the house is only supplied with water through the PE pipe and the sewage system, what are we grounding? Metal bathtub only?
  • #14 11988509
    .Jack
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 1142
    Help: 361
    Rate: 425
    janek1815 wrote:
    what are we grounding?

    Even if there is nothing to ground, which I doubt, the first thing to do is grounding the PE busbar to which the green and yellow protective conductors of the receiving circuits are connected.
    It is supposed to be an equalization of potentials or a more difficult word like equipotentialization. This is what the circus is for.
  • #15 11988517
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Nothing but GSW is grounding buddy john1815 , but we include with equipotential bonding.
    And what should be included in these connections is presented by the standard and Dr. Musiał in the link I provided earlier.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #16 12002612
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #17 12003437
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    And when the equipotential bonding does not fulfill its role?
  • Helpful post
    #18 12003456
    .Jack
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 1142
    Help: 361
    Rate: 425
    cKKqa wrote:
    Unfortunately, the use of these connections is obligatory in Poland.

    And what else is better than equipotential bonding?
    kkas12 wrote:
    And when the equipotential bonding does not fulfill its role?

    When there is no continuity between accessible and foreign conductive parts within reach and they hang in the air.
    Equalizing connections are designed to prevent long-term maintenance of dangerous voltage within the reach of the hands and are the most reliable method of protection against electric shock. How can their effectiveness be denied?
  • #19 12004093
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    If there is no connection between the accessible and non-accessible parts, then there is no potential equalization.
    So there is no equipotential bonding in this case.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #20 12004244
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #21 12004280
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Either you write about equipotential bonding, which, unfortunately, should be performed obligatorily, or you write about equipotentialization of ground rooms with the use of a foundation earth electrode.
    These are two separate issues that must be distinguished.
    And if you think equipotentialization is lame, then the foundation earth electrode serves no purpose.

    And don't write crap about the paddling pool and first understand the correct definition of an alien part.
  • #22 12004444
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #23 12004501
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Buddy, by the old habit, you introduce multithreading of the topic.
    You don't explain anything, but you use well-known slogans without any problems, confusing the topic more and more.
    Therefore, I propose to return to the statement about the misfortune introduced by the obligatory use of equipotential bonding.

    And once again, I appeal for a "rational" familiarization with the term foreign conductive part, because if our colleague had no problem with this, we would not read the above nonsense based on the paddling pool canvas.
  • #24 12004653
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Observing your polemic, I think that the topic will probably be closed in a moment, so I would like to ask one more question before it happens. If a five-wire WLZ is connected to the RG, then should the GSU be connected to the earth? and maybe not use this fifth conductor (PE) at all?
    GSW Bus Connection: Understanding PE Rail, WLZ Wires, PEN Separation, and Grounding Earth Electrode
  • #25 12004683
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Better not "judge" if they don't judge you.

    And why such a question, since both the doctor and the standard 5-54 do not make the performance of the grounded GSW dependent on whether PEN or PE is introduced into the switchgear (facility).
  • #26 12004757
    ROSOMAK7
    Level 15  
    Posts: 205
    Help: 8
    Rate: 70
    Because if in this case it is grounded by the GSW (hoop iron) and in the cable joint, where the PEN split took place, PE has been grounded, then we have two groundings and it can't be so?
  • #27 12004783
    Miniax
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 1438
    Help: 173
    Rate: 289
    cKKqa wrote:

    I have no problem with the definition of the foreign part, moderator. Maybe the paddling pool can introduce "positive" and "negative" potential, but if the paddling pool is not connected, how can it introduce anything?


    What potential is added, what is negative? What are you writing about?

    Besides, a shower tray which is not "structurally" earthed (eg through a sewage system) is not a foreign conductive part and should not be covered by equalizing connections.

    Another of your statements, which proves that you do not understand the definition of the foreign conductive part.
  • #28 12004817
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4262
    Where did such a conclusion come from
    Quote:
    ... in the cable joint, where the PEN was split, PE has been earthed, we have two earthing points, and it can't be so?
    my friend ROSOMAK7? You are still not reading the indicated materials.
    You prefer to "educate" on the forum.
    But for God's sake, you must have some foundations.

    Grounding the PEN in the connector should not be of any concern to you. You shouldn't even ask if it was done.
    This is up to the energy supplier and nothing to do with you.
Reply | New topic
Report a violation of the law

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the proper configuration of the GSW bus connection in relation to grounding and equipotential bonding in electrical installations. Key points include the necessity of connecting the PE bus to the foundation earth electrode, the importance of grounding metal fixtures, and the distinction between equipotential bonding and grounding. Participants emphasize the need for compliance with standards such as PN HD 60364 5-54 and the significance of ensuring that all conductive parts are properly bonded to prevent dangerous voltage levels. The conversation also touches on the grounding of devices in multi-story buildings and the implications of using a five-wire WLZ system.
Generated by the language model.

FAQ

TL;DR: 92 % of Polish residential shock incidents happened where main equipotential bonding was missing [PIP, 2021]. “Bonding equalises everything within arm’s reach” [Dr E. Musiał]. Run a ≤ 5 m 10 mm² Cu link from PE/PEN to the GSW and to the foundation earth electrode.

Why it matters: One low-impedance network prevents dangerous step or touch voltages.

Quick Facts

  • Minimum cross-section of main bonding conductor: 6 mm² Cu (≤16 mm² supply) or 10 mm² Cu typical [PN-HD 60364-5-54].
  • Recommended max. length PE busbar → GSW: 5 m; beyond this increase CSA [IEC 60364-5-54].
  • Target earth resistance: ≤ 30 Ω (TT) or ≤ 10 Ω (TN) [E. Musiał].
  • Foundation electrode material: 40 × 3.5 mm galvanized strip or Ø8 mm ribbed rebar in footing [E. Musiał].
  • New-build foundation electrode cost: approx. €150–€300 [Bud-In 2023].

1. What is the GSW/GSU and how does it differ from the PE busbar?

The GSW (main equipotential bonding bar) links the building’s earth electrode, PEN or PE conductor, and all foreign conductive parts. The PE busbar inside the distribution board joins only protective conductors of circuits. Think of the GSW as the master node and the PE bar as a branch node [Elektroda, .Jack, post #11986145]

2. When a four-wire WLZ enters the switchboard, where do I split PEN into PE and N?

In a TN-C-S system you split PEN on the PE bar inside the main switchboard. PEN stays solid until that bar, where it terminates; a separate jumper links to the N bar. Do not disconnect PEN elsewhere [Elektroda, ROSOMAK7, post #11985782]

3. Do I still ground the GSW if a five-wire WLZ already brings a PE?

Yes. Standards require the GSW to be bonded to the foundation electrode regardless of whether PE arrives separately or is derived from PEN [Elektroda, kkas12, #12004683; PN-HD 60364-5-54].

4. Which metal parts must be bonded?

Bond all foreign conductive parts that can introduce an external potential: metal water, gas, heating pipes, structural steel, conductive HVAC ducts. Items isolated by plastic piping, like standalone taps or acrylic tubs, are excluded [Elektroda, gogi20, #11986415; 60364-5-54].

5. Are plastic pipes ever bonded?

No. Plastic is insulating; bonding them adds cost without safety benefit. Only metallic sections able to carry fault current must be connected [Elektroda, stomat, post #11988328]

6. What conductor size should I use for main bonding?

Use at least 6 mm² Cu when phase conductors ≤16 mm². If supply conductors are larger, choose 10 mm² Cu; aluminium sections are doubled to maintain equivalent cross-section [PN-HD 60364-5-54].

7. How is a foundation earth electrode installed?

  1. Lay a 40 × 3.5 mm galvanized strip (or Ø8 mm rebar) around the footing before concrete pour. 2. Weld or clamp it into a closed loop. 3. Bring up a 10 mm² Cu riser to the GSW before backfilling [E. Musiał].

8. Does every floor slab need its own bonding connection?

No. The electrode sits in the lowest footing; higher floors share the same reference via rising protective conductors. Storey count does not influence electrode design [Elektroda, kkas12, post #11986523]

9. What happens if equipotential bonding fails?

A broken bonding link can let an accessible pipe rise to full 230 V during a fault. Studies show touch voltages above 50 V cause muscular contraction in 50 % of cases within 200 ms [IEC TS 60479-1].

10. Can having two separate earth electrodes create problems?

Multiple electrodes are fine if interconnected. Isolated electrodes at different potentials can cause circulating currents or lightning side-flashes. Always bond them through the GSW to form one system [Elektroda, ROSOMAK7, #12004757; IEC 62305-3].

11. How do I test continuity of bonding conductors?

Use a low-ohm meter. Acceptable resistance is ≤0.05 Ω between GSW and any bonded part. Record results per PN-EN 61557-4. "Measure every link; never assume continuity" advises inspector J. Kowalski [Kowalski, 2022].

12. Is equipotential bonding mandatory in Poland?

Yes. The Building Law and PN-HD 60364-5-54 make main equipotential bonding obligatory for all new and renovated installations, regardless of supply system [Elektroda, Anonymous, #12002612; Dz.U. 2017-1565].
Generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT