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Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.

GeoCa 30294 39
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  • #1 16384954
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    Hello,


    Please advise

    1. New house, no foundation grounding /the bricklayers rushed to pour/.
    2. The project assumes GSU/GSW grounded connected to the shower trays, pipes and possibly the housing of the stove, refrigerator and connected to the lightning arrester.
    3. Installations in the house made entirely of plastic.
    4. Electrical installation company made the internal installations
    5. In about a week they will be connecting the main switchboard in the house /Hager 2x12 for a house of 100m2/.
    5. Along with the WLZ 5-core 10m2 at a depth of 0.8m to the ZE box in the border /20mb/ galvanized steel cooper was laid and at the wall by the wire was introduced to the switchboard. Ultimately, the gentlemen want to connect this to the ZE grounding in the box in the boundary but I learned that this is illegal.


    Please advise what to do now, as I do not want to be green when I require changes from electricians listening to their wisdom. I will add the area is sandy, dry.

    I am able to do the work myself tj=/and force the electricians to connect them/ dig the lagging around the house at 0.7x 2m from the wall due to the terrain and lay the cooper with leads in it at 4 corners and near the boiler room. But what to do next. Layout of the network is probably TNC because it is so in the conditions, although the new earth connection 300m which pulled ZE d the border of the plot has its own ground and, 5 wires.


    PS switchgear is for 24 modules Hager Volta, into the switchgear goes 16 wires, the electrician says that there is enough room for all the protections???? boiler room, living room, kitchen, bell, bathroom 1, bathroom 2, upstairs lighting, first floor lighting, first floor sockets, upstairs sockets, stove power, outdoor lighting, outdoor sockets, stove socket, alarm power, ie. main disconnector 4 poles 100/4, surge arrester B+C 12/280/4, differential 4 poles 100/4, eski cls6-c3 eaton x1, cls6-b10 eaton x3, cls6-b16 eaton x9pcs, cls6-b16/3 eaton x1, phase power indicator.

    I'm already confused I asked another electrician and it is ok. I read the forum and according to is bad. What now

    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box. .
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  • Helpful post
    #2 16384959
    kozi966
    Moderator of Electricians group
    GeoCa wrote:
    1. New house, no foundation grounding /the masons rushed the pouring/.
    Not they rushed, just the construction manager is under-educated or wasn't there.
    GeoCa wrote:
    Hager 2x12
    To laugh or cry...?
    What the colleague described in his installation makes no sense, it will not fit in this switchboard, not to mention the space reserve.
    One differential for everything will take revenge in the future.

    GeoCa wrote:
    5. Along with the WLZ 5-core 10m2 at a depth of 0.8m to the ZE box in the border /20mb/ galvanized steel cooper was laid and at the wall with a cable entered the switchboard. Ultimately, the gentlemen want to connect this to the ZE grounding in the box in the border but I learned that this is illegal.
    Rather pointless. On the other hand, it is not illegal only ZE does not really want to perform such things.
    The earth ground should be made around the building in order to equipotentialize the ground on which the building is located and not just to give ground potential to the GSU/PE bus.

    GeoCa wrote:
    What now.
    Where is the DRAFT?
  • Helpful post
    #3 16384971
    Brivido

    Level 34  
    I exaggerate the other way, for a tiny 5x4m cottage, which was supposed to be an office, and will be an "apartment" for rent, I have 2x18. One apartment ~50m, divided into 2 separate ones is two 3x12. Well. "Electrician" apparently decided that it will fit, 16 circuit breakers plus RCDs 4 track and already 20 modules, and still a spare 2 left :D
    What was the contract/design? Was the price set in advance for the whole thing with material? Fortunately, it's not too bad yet and you can give it bigger. The cooper from the ring enter the GSU bus. Will there be what to connect to it? Gas, water? The shower trays, stove and refrigerator have a lead to connect the equalization wire? :)


    Cable rather 4 conductors, cooper is not needed there.
    3 track disconnector, RCD 2 track for 1F circuits, ze 3 + one/two 4 track for 3F circuits. "Fuse" for controls. Where circuits for washing machines, dishwashers, kitchens, pumps, and what not.

    Wrong or not wrong, maybe and "required minimum" is. A question of price and tefo who saved on it where possible.
  • Helpful post
    #4 16385119
    djlukas
    Level 27  
    2x12? Fellow switchgear 3x20 is now such a minimum by current standards in private homes.

    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box. .
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    #5 16385153
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    16 circuits + 3 disconnector + 1 controls + 4 RCD 4poly + 4 SPD
    GeoCa wrote:
    4 poles 100/4, surge arrester B+C 12/280/4, differentiator 4 poles 100/4, eski cls6-c3 eaton x1, cls6-b10 eaton x3, cls6-b16 eaton x9pcs, cls6-b16/3 eaton x1, phase power supply indicator.


    After all, this is already 29 modules
  • #6 16386570
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    I know but he claims that not every circuit will be on one esca because the lights are duplicated


    Added after 20 [minutes]:

    Brivido wrote:
    I'm exaggerating the other way, for a tiny 5x4m cottage, which was supposed to be an office and will be an "apartment" for rent, I have 2x18. One apartment ~50m, divided into 2 separate ones is two 3x12. Well. "Electrician" apparently decided that it will fit, 16 circuit breakers plus RCDs 4 track and already 20 modules, and still a spare 2 left :D
    What was the contract/design? Was the price set in advance for the whole thing with material? Fortunately, it's not too bad yet and you can give it bigger. The cooper from the ring enter the GSU bus. Will there be what to connect to it? Gas, water? The shower trays, stove and refrigerator have a lead to connect the equalization wire? :)


    Cable rather 4 conductors, cooper is not needed there.
    3 track disconnector, RCD 2 track for 1F circuits, ze 3 + one/two 4 track for 3F circuits. "Fuse" for controls. Where circuits for washing machines, dishwashers, kitchens, pumps, and what not.

    Wrong or not wrong, maybe and "required minimum" is. A question of price and tefo who saved on it where possible.


    Electrician says not every circuit will be on one overcurrent circuit breaker.
    Otok and Gsu I can make myself however will there be anything to connect to since everything in plastic? I want to make a lightning protection system later, first I want to finish the house and when the money comes together will be done.
    The price was per point 25zł, on the first floor came out 64 points.
    Differentials claims to give 3 phase for the entire installation.
    Apparently there is a separate wire for the stove, stove, dishwasher.
    Earth cable as in the picture 5 wires but cross-section I do not know what.

    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.
    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.
    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.

    Added after 4 [minutes]:

    kozi966 wrote:
    GeoCa wrote:
    1. New house, no foundation grounding /the masons rushed to pour/.
    Not they rushed but the construction manager is under-educated or there was no such thing there.
    GeoCa wrote:
    Hager 2x12
    Do you laugh or cry...?
    What the colleague described in his installation makes no sense, it will not fit in this switchboard, not to mention the space reserve.
    One differential for everything will take revenge in the future.

    GeoCa wrote:
    5. Along with the WLZ 5-core 10m2 at a depth of 0.8m to the ZE box in the border /20mb/ galvanized steel cooper was laid and at the wall with a cable entered the switchboard. Ultimately, the gentlemen want to connect this to the ZE grounding in the box in the border but I learned that this is illegal.

    Rather pointless. On the other hand, it is not illegal only ZE does not really want to perform such things.
    The earth ground should be perform around the building to equipotentialize the ground on which the building is located and not just to give the ground potential to the GSU/PE bus.

    GeoCa wrote:
    What now.

    Where is the PROJECT?


    The project is as I described in the 1st post, lagging, gsu, lightning protection, 56-field switchgear and a differential for each circuit.... But it is also added that these are only recommendations and a licensed electrician can change it and make it according to local regulations, etc.


    As I wrote I had several companies at the interview and each says that it is not needed gsu and lightning protection. And similarly.... This electrician was reasonable but surprised me with this switchgear. He got the design and it was supposed to be like in it with minor changes in location of points.
  • Helpful post
    #7 16386631
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    GeoCa wrote:
    Differential claims he will give 3 phase for the entire installation.
    Error.
    GeoCa wrote:
    As I've written I've had several companies on the call and each says no need for gsu and lightning arrestor.
    Second mistake
    Small switchgear - third mistake


    What is wrong with the electricians in a colleague's area ?
  • #8 16386640
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    elpapiotr wrote:
    GeoCa wrote:
    GeoCa wrote:
    He claims he will give a 3 phase for the entire installation.
    Wrong.
    GeoCa wrote:
    As I've written I've had several companies on the call and each says no need for gsu and lightning protection.
    Second mistake
    Small switchgear - third mistake


    What's wrong with electricians in a colleague's neighborhood ?

    The neighborhood is near Gdansk.


    I thought that everything will be ok since I will call a company engaged in electrical installation and not a student what after hours does installations in houses....

    They are the ones who should know, however, I see that the investor should also have habilitation in every field.

    The switchboard is not a problem to replace the 3x12 or 4x12 small cost, although it is a pity about the installed Hager Volta.
    Gsu and Otok I can connect myself and enter the cable to the switchboard and let the electrician do the rest with the switchboard. However, to the GSU I have nothing but that to connect. I will do the lightning protection at another time.

    I understand that the otok make with exits in the corners of the house 4, and 5 in the ground exit to the gsu and from there with a line to the RG. Ps can the lag be 2m from the wall of the house?
  • #9 16386855
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    GeoCa wrote:
    However, for the GSU I have nothing else to connect.



    Nothing else needs to be there but for the switchgear itself it needs to be done.... you don't have for example a gas stove :?:
    GeoCa wrote:
    I understand that the lagging to be made with exits in the corners of the house 4, and 5 in the ground exit to the gsu and from there a line to the RG. Ps can the cable gland be 2m from the wall of the house?


    You can make it that way.


    If the electrician claims to fit into this switchboard then let him install with the proviso that one RCD 4P is not enough, but let him not argue that "this is how it is done".
  • #10 16386867
    djlukas
    Level 27  
    GeoCa wrote:

    I thought that everything would be ok since I will take a company engaged in electrical installation and not a student what after hours does installations in houses....

    And I'm just doing after hours and I'm not a big installation company and now compare your switchboard and mine.
  • Helpful post
    #11 16386921
    stonefree
    Level 27  
    Buddy, post the descriptions of the individual cables. From the photo it is impossible to read them.
  • Helpful post
    #12 16387060
    GBW
    Level 31  
    Quote:
    PS switchgear is for 24 modules Hager Volta, 16 wires enter the switchgear, ie. main disconnector 4 poles 100/4, surge arrester B+C 12/280/4, differential 4 poles 100/4, eski cls6-c3 eaton x1, cls6-b10 eaton x3, cls6-b16 eaton x9pcs, cls6-b16/3 eaton x1, phase power indicator.

    Let's count;
    16 wires,
    . main disconnect switch 4 poles 100/4 4
    , surge arrester B+C 12/280/4 4
    , differential 4 poles 100/4 4
    eski cls6-c3 eaton x1 1
    , cls6-b10 eaton x3, 3
    cls6-b16 eaton x9pcs, 9
    cls6-b16/3 eaton x1, 1
    phase power supply. 1
    In total we have 27 fields and that's not all, 14 overcurrent and we have 16 conductors, where are the rest?
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  • #13 16388529
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    stonefree wrote:
    Kolego, post the descriptions of the individual cables. From the photo it is impossible to read them.


    1bell
    2gn floor rooms
    3gn stove
    4gn bathroom
    5gn bathroom floor
    6ośw floor
    7button?? whatever it means
    8ośw first floor
    9gn boiler room /gn washing machines also in boiler room/
    10gn rooms
    11gn exterior
    12gn kitchen
    13gn dishwasher
    14gn power stove
    15alarm
    16 unreadable

    Electrician suggested, main disconnector, B+C surge protector, 3f differential for the whole, phase indicator, 3f circuit breaker for the stove force, and the rest of the eski, with the fact that he wants to give sometimes several circuits per "eski". From the switchgear cable to the cooper along the power line to the ZE box.

    From my calculations, it seems that it should actually be RG 3x12 because;
    differential g 4, limiter b+c 4, differential 4, indicator f 1, circuit breaker 3, the rest of the circuits circuit breaker 13, which gives us 29. In the future, additionally 2 differential 1f. Well, unless as an electrician hooks up several circuits to 1 overcurrent circuit breaker. On the ISE forum they say that it is not bad because on 1f circuits many circuit breakers can cause the main protection to blow.

    I already know that I myself will make a lagging at a depth of 1m average distance from the house 1-2m with 4 outlets for future lightning protection, and the 5th outlet to GSW in the boiler room, from where the line to the RG. The question is whether to connect this with a cross link in the ground with a cooper over the PE?

    Thank you ALL for your feedback, there are very helpful tips here.
    Added after 4 [minutes]:
    djlukas wrote:
    GeoCa wrote:
    I thought everything would be ok since I would call an electrical company and not a student who does installations in houses after hours....


    And I'm just doing after hours and I'm not a big installation company and now compare your switchgear and mine.



    I'm not denying that and in fact now I'm coming to the conclusion that these wires I would lay and assemble the switchgear myself according to the advice of this forum. Worse with the reception and measurement:) Learning for the future.

    Fact the work is professional.
  • Helpful post
    #14 16388901
    stonefree
    Level 27  
    GBW wrote:
    14 overcurrent and we have 16 conductors

    GeoCa wrote:
    1bell
    2gn floor rooms
    3gn stove
    4gn bathroom
    5gn bathroom floor
    6w floor
    7button??? whatever it means
    8gn first floor
    9gn boiler room /gn washing machines also in boiler room/
    10gn rooms
    11gn external
    12gn kitchen
    13gn dishwasher
    14gn power stove
    15alarm
    16 unreadable


    I see at most 13. If you combine well, it would go 3 RCD single-phase. For peace of conscience, I would request a separate RCD for the central heating boiler and replace the switchboard with 4x12 modules. I don't see a problem with forging the wiring and embedding a larger enclosure. The old box the electricians will use, to the dried foam the new one will hold well :) . If already a larger enclosure, it would be useful arota pipe 50 or at least 40mm led in gentle curves from the switchgear to the outside of the building below ground level in case w. As for the grounding is a ban on splicing with ZE grounding. This is not why there is a 4-pole disconnector disconnecting the power supply in the switchgear to introduce a dangerous potential by means of cooper in case of a failure in the network. Introduce a ground with the lowest possible resistance, for example, in the boiler room, connect to metal pipes and PE bus in the switchgear. So much can be done in your building at an additional cost of 400 PLN, so I think it is worth the extra.
  • Helpful post
    #15 16388982
    GBW
    Level 31  
    One circuit for kitchens is definitely not enough.
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  • #16 16389037
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    stonefree wrote:
    GBW wrote:
    14 overcurrent and we have 16 conductors


    GeoCa wrote:
    1bell
    2gn floor rooms
    3gn stove
    4gn bathroom
    5gn bathroom floor
    6ośw floor
    7button??? whatever it means
    8gn first floor
    9gn boiler room /gn washing machines also in boiler room/
    10gn rooms
    11gn external
    12gn kitchen
    13gn dishwasher
    14gn power stove
    15alarm
    16 unreadable


    I see at most 13. If you combine well, it would go 3 RCD single-phase. For peace of conscience, I would want a separate RCD for the central heating boiler and replace the switchgear with 4x12 modules. I don't see a problem with forging the wiring and embedding a larger enclosure. The old box the electricians will use, to the dried foam the new one will hold well :) . If already a larger enclosure, it would be useful arota pipe 50 or at least 40mm led in gentle curves from the switchgear to the outside of the building below ground level in case w. As for the grounding is a ban on splicing with ZE grounding. This is not why there is a 4-pole disconnector disconnecting the power supply in the switchgear to introduce a dangerous potential by means of cooper in case of a failure in the network. Introduce a ground with the lowest possible resistance, for example, in the boiler room, connect to metal pipes and PE bus in the switchgear. So much can be done in your building at an additional cost of 400 zł, so I think it's worth the extra.



    The PE conductor to the building is introduced under the foundation arota fi 50 pipe with a gentle curve, from it the cable is already "loose" in the groove of the wall plastered.
    That is, as I wrote, I install GSW to it the grounding conductor and what is there, which I do not connect to the ZE box. This to the PE bus in the RG.
    Thank you.
  • Helpful post
    #17 16389045
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Throw out the N path interrupting main circuit breaker. It makes as much sense as splitting the PEN in a connector far from the building. However, the compilation of both solutions can prove dangerous for the loads.
    I think you asked earlier about ground connections. Everything should be connected underground by welding and protect the connection points from corrosion.
  • Helpful post
    #18 16389099
    stonefree
    Level 27  
    GeoCa wrote:
    that's for the PE bus in the RG
    I suggest LY16 yellow-green wire
  • #19 16405289
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    kkas12 wrote:
    Throw in that N-track interrupting main circuit breaker. It makes as much sense as splitting the PEN in a connector far from the building. However, the compilation of both solutions can prove dangerous for the loads.
    I think you asked earlier about ground connections. Everything should be connected underground by welding and protect the connection points from corrosion.


    Thank you. Is there an isolation switch that we can leave the N track uninterrupted? Would this even be the right situation

    RG Replaced. Applied additional circuits to the kitchen directly separate to the refrigerator, washing machine. GSU will be mounted on the same wall as the RG, by wire connected to the PE bus. Bedding wire will be "dug" a little later during the work around the house, for now I will connect to the GSU 20 m of cooper, which is located in one trench with the power line, since here it is not necessarily required a result of less than 10Ohm as in the case of lightning protection.

    Now I have to make sure that the RG is shorted. I like the implementation of wire with bushings and wire markers. But it is after plastering so that the apparatus does not get damp.

    I consider the topic to be closed. Thank you all for your interest.

    PS> thus I became interested in electrical engineering, a very interesting field that requires thinking and training. Maybe I will go to some course, school.
  • Helpful post
    #20 16405470
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    GeoCa wrote:
    Is there an isolation switch that we can leave the N track uninterrupted? Would this even be the right situation?


    There is and I see no need to produce one simply using a 3P disconnect switch for the phases themselves and the N feed wire is connected directly to the N bus.
  • Helpful post
    #21 16405573
    Brivido

    Level 34  
    Don't close, upload effects from work :)
  • #22 16408966
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    I am wondering about the possibility of using the concrete slab of the terrace along with its foundation as a place to put an earth/bed/ in the concrete. 6mx5m
  • #23 16412286
    RafZielak

    Level 12  
    Construction is nearing completion, the plasterers are getting ready, and here are a few more questions ...
    Is the cable (because the ground is a cable, not a wire) running to the connector in the fence (the so-called Internal Power Line) is 5 or 4 wires?
    What is its cross-section? To my eye, 99% does not have the required 10mm2.
    Why was it not led to the switchboard in the return so that in the future, in case of "W" I could push into the return at least a fiber optic cable for the Internet or, for example, some kind of intercom?
    Will the distribution point be in the connector or in the switchboard at home?
    What kind of power connection do you have, dear investor? What pre-metering protection?
    Unfortunately, these are the effects of paying per point. 1 circuit of sockets in the kitchen? :-)
    Are you not planning to have a 3-phase outlet anywhere? The only 3F reception is "stove"?
    No garages, outbuildings, etc. planned?
  • #24 16412342
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    GeoCa wrote:
    I am concerned about the possibility of using the concrete slab of the terrace along with its foundation as a place to put an earth/bedding/ in the concrete. 6mx5m
    That is, the terrace will have potentials equalized. What about the rest of the house?
  • #25 16434383
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    RafZielak wrote:
    The construction is coming to an end, the plasterers are getting ready, and here are a few more questions ...
    Is the cable (because the ground is a cable, not a wire) running to the connector in the fence (the so-called Internal Power Line) is 5 or 4 wires?
    What is its cross-section? To my eye, 99% does not have the required 10mm2.
    Why was it not led to the switchboard in the return so that in the future, in case of "W" I could push into the return at least a fiber optic cable for the Internet or, for example, some kind of intercom?
    Will the distribution point be in the connector or in the switchboard at home?
    What kind of power connection do you have, dear investor? What pre-metering protection?
    Unfortunately, these are the effects of paying per point. 1 circuit of sockets in the kitchen? :-)
    Are you not planning to have a 3-phase outlet anywhere? The only 3F reception is the "stove"?
    You don't have any garages, outbuildings, etc. planned?



    The ground wire is 5 conductors and has a cross section of 10mm2.
    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.
    Fiber optic cable will not be needed. I have been using LTE forever. Under the intercom, there is a peszel introduced to the distribution point and to the fence.
    Distribution point seems to be in the connector box, new Energi ground network about 300m including grounding.
    Connection power for the time of construction was given 7kW. And the proper plans so far 15kW.
    I was not aware /unfortunately, this is Poland building a house you need a master's degree in any profession/, that one circuit for outlets is not enough. Surprisingly in the project is similar!!! I added on my own additional circuits for the refrigerator, dishwasher.
    I do not think there is a need for 3f additional, tesla I will not buy, and space in the boiler room I do not have unless by the ceiling, while giving it on the facade is not aesthetic.
    Only a carport and I think I will lead an additional peszel in this direction.
  • #26 16566249
    GeoCa
    Level 8  
    RG replaced, it looks better from the start Hager Volta 4x12:) :)


    Routed additional circuit to the kitchen, changed outdoor lighting. I am in the process of digging the cooper around the house. For the sake of time it will take some time.

    I have a question, should a cooper go on the power line to the box in the border of the plot? The box itself shows the cooper going into the ground. A neighbor made a water connection next door and supposedly broke off this cooper and did not report to anyone and Energa on the hotline did not accept such a report from me. Here is a photo:

    Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box. .
  • #27 16566572
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    GeoCa wrote:
    I have a question should a cooper go on the power line to the box in the plot boundary?
    Why?
  • #28 16566798
    slawekx
    Level 29  
    And what does this picture represent ?
  • #29 16566873
    polaklbn
    Level 24  
    RafZielak wrote:
    What is its cross section? To my eye it is 99% not the required 10mm2.
    Why has it not been led to the switchboard in the arot so that in the future, in case of "W" I could push into this arot at least a fiber optic cable for the Internet or, for example, some intercom?


    And since when can telecommunications etc. be laid along electrical cables in a single pipe?
  • #30 16593902
    thomyk
    Level 11  
    As for me, the otok is an unnecessarily spent money. Dug out someone after 10 15 years. I recommend. If already collapsed foundation is difficult. In Poland this is the imagination of kierbud and investor. Why the hell take an electrician before pouring the footings .... a waste of money. The effect of the same bubbles foundation grounding is to be found in 1 in 100 buildings. Installation done at a colleague very poor indeed. As for spd b plus c I will not comment , but the effectiveness can be poor depending on the distance spd cooper. Most manufacturers max 1 m .

    I am curious how much the colleague paid to do the installation ? Maybe here the price does wonders. Often the investor chooses the cheapest electrician , and then there are such results.
    I have to the kitchen 5 circuits including one power circuit.

    Wlz should be yky 4x10 but it is unnecessary cost only. Now use blue and green together as N.

    And where the intercom , external gates, etc ?
    What about the internet tv ?

    Greetings

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the grounding and electrical installation in a new house where the foundation grounding was rushed. The user seeks advice on the legality and adequacy of the grounding setup, which involves a 20m copper connection from the WLZ to the ZE box. Concerns are raised about the installation's compliance with regulations, particularly regarding the connection to the ZE grounding. Various responses highlight the importance of proper grounding techniques, the necessity of a larger switchboard (suggested to be at least 3x20 modules), and the need for multiple circuits for kitchen appliances. The conversation also touches on the use of differential circuit breakers, the potential for future lightning protection systems, and the implications of using plastic installations. The user expresses a desire to ensure the installation meets safety standards and is not misled by the electricians.
Summary generated by the language model.
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