Tire balancing. Does a large number of weights matter? - discussion

Hello.

If I put this topic in the wrong section, please move it or let me know where I should put it.


Recently, I had an interesting conversation with a friend, or rather an argument, regarding the balance of the wheels in a passenger car.

The main topic is: "Does a lot of weights stick to the rim matter?"

In my opinion, it matters because it is increasing the unsprung mass, which affects comfort, but besides, if the wheel is balanced, even if it has 200 or 300g of weights on it, it does not interfere in any way.

I omit aesthetic considerations here, because what does it look like when there are two rows of weights stuck on a nice aluminum rim, and that this is a mega unprofessional approach of the vulcanizer, which should optimize their number by turning the tire on the rim, and not delete additional weights. In addition, the greater the number of weights, the greater the likelihood of losing them.

According to my colleague: it can't be like that because ... well, he doesn't know why, but he heard somewhere that there should not be more than 50g per wheel, the maximum can be 100g, but he couldn't say why there can't be more.

Is my way of thinking correct? If there is overweight somewhere (let's say in the tire), it is leveled with a weight, but it may well be that the tire is overweight in two places that reset each other.

Then the weight of both wheels is identical.
one overweight tire + rim + weights = two overweight tire (which zero) + rim

Regards Rafał

I have already seen cars with 100-130g on one wheel and 25-50 on the rest, and everything flickered without any problems. However, more (200g-300g) is a vulcanizer's total laziness, because then he should turn the tire, and it will surely be less.
As for aesthetic issues, the vulcanizer should stick the weights on the inside in such places that, on the other hand, they should not be visible.

rafal_13 wrote:

and not to delete extra weights

This is total nonsense, this is the first time I hear something like that, they always canceled me only for balancing a fixed sum, no matter how many weights were to put on.

rafal_13 wrote:

one overweight tire + rim + weights = two overweight tire (which zero) + rim

It is possible, but it depends exactly on where the wheel is overweight / underweight (rim + tire), but in general it should not bother us, because this is what the wheel is balanced for.

pawel-jwe wrote:

I have already seen cars with 100-130g on one wheel and 25-50 on the rest, and everything flickered without any problems. However, more (200g-300g) is a vulcanizer's total laziness, because then he should turn the tire, and it will surely be less.

...

As for aesthetic issues, the vulcanizer should stick the weights on the inside in such places that, on the other hand, they should not be visible.
This is total nonsense, this is the first time I hear something like that, they always canceled me only for balancing a fixed sum, no matter how many weights were to put on.

the case is purely theoretical, as for aesthetics, when sticking 200g it will be rather difficult to stuff them so that they are not visible, as the rims have narrow shoulders

As for the cancellation for additional weights, I have already balanced my wheels a dozen times and several vulcanizations there was information that the tire is entitled to weights punched in in the amount of x pieces and glued in the amount of one strip, and you have to pay for additional ones and an unaware blacksmith will pay instead of telling you to turn the tire, for additional weights.

however, this is not the case here, perhaps dropping the question:

if on the balancing machine, set to tolerance 0, (although I do not know if it is possible), we get a 0/0 wheel balance, but we have 200g of weights glued on it, is the same as a 0/0 balanced wheel with glued 30g

in my opinion, how is it balanced, no matter how many weights there are, it is important that it is 0/0 on the balancer and, apart from the weight, nothing changes

rafal_13 wrote:

in my opinion, how is it balanced, no matter how many weights there are, it is important that it is 0/0 on the balancer and, apart from the weight, nothing changes

I am of the same opinion, it is balanced and that's it, the car is constructed in such a way that these minimal differences in weight should not have an impact. The more so that the weight of the wheel may be lower / higher because the tire may be more "torn" or, for example, a few pebbles get stuck in the tread of the tire and the weight is also changing.

Pebbles in the tread must be removed before balancing, but 200-300g are no longer pebbles or a flat-spot, but a "square" rim ...

I saw a 60g new rim + new tire and it's no wonder.
If the vulcanizer is not very careful, he can add weights every year instead of giving them only in the right places.
Adds info as a curiosity:
If the vulcanizer balances the aluminum and 5-15g remains, but does not want to stick it again, it switches the balancer mode to steel and it is already 0--0.

I will dig out the topic because I have a similar question.
Yesterday I bought brand new Dunlop tires, went to change and the vulcanizer says that I have crooked 3 out of 4 rims.
Well, he said he would balance it out anyway.
Everything has been balanced. Yesterday I did quite a few kilometers on the highway at speeds of 100 to 170 km / h.
No feel, no hitting, no chewing etc.
Do I have to rush and straighten them, or if I don't feel any vibrations, etc., don't worry about it yet.

tzok wrote:

Pebbles in the tread must be removed before balancing, but 200-300g are no longer pebbles or a flat-spot, but a "square" rim ...

It seems to me that you would have to stand by every professional and look at their hands. But the client does not have to know everything, so he goes to him to do it well. But in the workshop, no one sees that the rim is, say, knocked against the curb and has a small distortion, it is only necessary to balance the next customer.

This is how I come to the conclusion that 80% of the balanced alloy wheels are skewed ...
As I can see the work of vulcanizers, it is just grinding work. Just stick the weights and drive.
In my case, I have 20g on one, 40g on another, 60g on another, 95g on another - but the final was such that the machine showed 0/0 on each wheel ...
And I don't know whether to worry about it or to drive and that's it.

Each curve of a circle can be balanced. It will be 0/0. But it will still be crooked. A reliable vulcanizer should first check the axial and transverse runout of the rim and then balance it. And certainly a large number of weights should make him wonder what is wrong. Only a reliable vulcanizer is like an honest attorney ... There is no.

Holy words ... but the question again, if you don't feel the vibrations, beatings and pulling, can you ride a little bit or straighten these rims?

kortyleski wrote:

Only a reliable vulcanizer is like an honest attorney ... Not available.

This is how to hit the lottery jackpots.

I will ask again if you do not feel vibrations, beating and pulling, can you drive a little bit or straighten these rims?

You can. In time you will replace the bearings, maybe cupids. But no one knows how the rim and tire curve. You would have to have it on the machine and watch it.

I looked very closely at this rim and you can not see any curvature on it, but the vulcanizer says that there is a curve, when I asked him whether to straighten it, he said that he did not know anything about it
This is just a competence
Well, I don't bother with it yet and I keep going. You do not feel anything, so it is possible that this rim is "kind of" curve from 30kkm ago when I changed the tires

You see, it looks a bit different, we don't know what car = speeds we're talking about. If it's 22.5 inches from a truck that's ok, if it's 18 from a car reaching 200 km / h, then these are different criteria. So write what kind of car it is.

Diabeel buddy, if you do not feel vibrations on the steering wheel, the vulcanizer must have imagined that you have crooked rims because despite the correction of tire runout, because this is what balancing is not supposed to beat, the rims will be ok. curvature because everything comes out when driving at a speed of over 100 km / h.
The vulcanizer showed you how the wheel mounted on the wheel balancer works?

Passenger car, MB W204 I drive a lot on highways with speeds of 140-170 km / h
The vulcanizer showed how the tire + rim works - he did not check the rim separately.
In my opinion, it could have been a gentle up-and-down beat, but I will not let my head be cut off.
I would like to add that according to the vulcanizer, 3 rims out of 4 are crooked and you do not feel anything while driving.

If it were a significant rim runout, it would have to be revealed by the shaking of the steering wheel. The vulcanizer was reliable because he showed his friend that he did not like something about the work of the rims and he could just say nothing. I do not defend a man from my industry, although I say that he behaved in order towards the client, but he should advise a colleague whether the rims should be straightened and not claim that he does not know and does not know because this is a lack of competence. We offer a rim straightening service on our website and it is our interest to inform the client about the curved rims, although I have met with cases where some vulcanizers did not mention such a problem to the client, and when the client came to correct the wheel balance, he paid for the service again, which for me is an evident lack of professionalism.

Buddy, how are you doing? You can ride with it and in a free moment drive up and straighten the rims, since I do not feel any beating or vibrations or it is necessary to start immediately.
I would probably drive them to straighten them, but unfortunately I am limited by the lack of availability of professional workshops in my location.

PS.
When should this steering wheel shake occur if it is severely bent?

There is nothing I can advise without seeing the problem and not being able to tell if it really exists. A very curved rim will be noticeable already at a speed of 50-60 km / h, a rim with minimal runout with the correct balance of the wheel will not affect the comfort of driving. The only thing I can do is ask my friends and colleagues what workshop they recommend and even if they did not offer straightening, at least a reliable vulcanizer would say whether the problem is and how serious it is. We assemble wheels for the Mitsubishi Wierzgoń service from Rybnik and I will say with experience that even brand new rims straight from the box have a slight beating, but this does not disqualify them from use because although a trained eye will detect these defects, experience suggests that such a rim will not cause problems. Runouts with inaccurate balance or slightly bent rim should appear at speeds between 100-140 km / h.

Added after 18 [minutes]:

It may be that some really curved rim has been screwed on the back and then any noticeable beatings will not be revealed, so it is worth finding a competent workshop and checking the condition of the rims. Unfortunately, the curved rim will destroy the tire that is on it because it will break or dent, but also the car's suspension will suffer because over time the shock absorber, rubber bushings in the swingarm and the bearing in the wheel hub will be damaged.

A tire may as well be ... according to the art, first you check the balance and runout of the rim itself, and then you put the tire on and balance the whole wheel.

Well, you calmed me down a bit, because I don't feel anything even at speeds of 170 km / h.
The only question is what can happen in practice when there is a slight up / down beat?

I agree with my colleague tzok, but the vulcanizer decided that something was wrong with the rims and there was not even a mention of how the tires behaved during balancing. Someone will write now that the tires were new and Dunlop, but that does not prove anything.

diabeel wrote:

The only question is what can happen in practice when there is a slight up / down beat?

Worse grip, faster wear of shock absorbers.

There is no vibration at 170km / h, but the question of the condition of the rims at the rear remains. As I wrote, ask for a good workshop and verify the condition of all rims. Demand an unambiguous answer from the vulcanizer whether the rims require straightening or not. A good specialist will answer this question.

Added after 14 [minutes]:

The crucial question remains? Are we talking about steel or aluminum rims?
Straightening steel rims is unprofitable because for this money you can buy a replacement rim of quite good quality. Aluminum rims are another matter. As for the number of weights, a lot depends on the skill of the balancer and the correct calibration of the balancer itself, but also on the tire being balanced.

I am talking about org. Mercedes alloy wheels.

As I wrote to you, my friend, for peace of mind and to avoid repairs of the car's suspension in the future, find a vulcanizer that will clearly determine the condition of the rims and assess whether it is necessary to straighten. There must be at least one reputable workshop in your city because I can't believe there is no such workshop.
If any rim or rims require straightening, consider the option of sending them to a specialized plant that deals with it and straightens it using the cold method, i.e. without heating the rim, because by such straightening, the rims will lose their stiffness and will bend more often.
You have to decide if you can put the car on stands for a while, because if you don't have a second car to commute to work, etc., then the matter becomes more complicated.

In the morning I left the car to the vulcanizer - supposedly the best in my area.
I told them to check all the rims and if they are crooked, they should straighten them.

I would prefer to be there when assessing the condition of the rims, but you will see what the verdict and the cost of the service will be.