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Cable Routing in 50 sqm Apartment: Replacing Electrical Installation with Suspended Ceiling

morrph 36468 40
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Can I run socket and lighting cables above a suspended ceiling during a 50 m² apartment renovation?

Yes, you can route socket and lighting cables in the space above a suspended ceiling, and there is no general rule that sockets must be wired only in the walls and lighting only in the ceiling [#14126003] A practical approach is to run the main cable routes on the existing ceiling or on the wall in the void above the planned false ceiling, then drop down to the outlets and light points where needed [#14125915][#14126137][#14126138] For the main runs, forum users suggested perforated troughs/raceways or collective mounting brackets, which can be fixed to the wall or ceiling and make branching to individual points easy [#14126137][#14126138][#14129516][#14129623] If the cables cross metal profiles or sharp edges, they should be protected at those points against mechanical damage [#14125971] Several replies also noted that this solution is often simpler and cheaper than chasing every wire into the walls, especially when the ceiling is already being lowered by about 50 cm [#14126138][#14131294]
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  • #31 14129565
    marcinolesno

    Level 18  
    Posts: 298
    Help: 23
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    pol102 wrote:
    This can be done even faster than @elpapiotr proposes :)
    Cable Routing in 50 sqm Apartment: Replacing Electrical Installation with Suspended Ceiling

    I especially recommend the plastic ones, they are great to use even when working alone. You have to drill, but you can insert and remove the wires many times.


    Under what name to look for these handles?
    Company Account:
    Lokalizacja uszkodzeń kabli Marcin Czudaj
    Matejki, Olesno, 46-300 | Tel.: 880XXXXXX (Show) | Company Website: www.zwarciaolesno.pl
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  • #33 14129631
    Leonidas1990
    Level 10  
    Posts: 17
    Rate: 1
    Huge possibilities, but how does it all look like?
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  • #35 14129681
    Leonidas1990
    Level 10  
    Posts: 17
    Rate: 1
    Well, as for our realities, with a larger area, the costs can be significant. Only if the creator of the theme has a total of several meters of this wall, he does not see any obstacles to using these handles. By the way, I recently ordered several control modules for installation from Germany because it was cheaper than in Poland to buy
  • #36 14129686
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics  
    Posts: 21783
    Help: 654
    Rate: 4278
    Spend a fortune on handles that have to be fastened once and then covered with a plate. For me it is nonsense ...
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  • #37 14129697
    pol102
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl  
    Posts: 3085
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    Panels are also cassettes ... but anyway, let it be for posterity. The road system in our country, but looking through the prism of the West - the tune of the future.
  • #38 14130260
    deus.ex.machina
    Level 32  
    Posts: 1923
    Help: 91
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    TWK wrote:
    deus.ex.machina wrote:
    Why don't you use the troughs? - attach them to the wall and after the trouble.
    What for? How much is a meter of a trough and how many 2 or 4 handles shown by elpapiotr? How much time is the trough assembled and how much time such holders?



    Do not get me wrong, but I assume that a certain aesthetics should be preserved in the apartment - I know people who install thermocouple cables and also stick ... I don't think it can be cheaper and the job is going smoothly ... ;)

    The troughs have the advantage that they are easily accessible with partitions and you can add a cable if you need to (it happens at home) - there are no mounting brackets for the partitions.
  • #39 14131246
    TWK
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 2326
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    deus.ex.machina wrote:

    Do not get me wrong, but I assume that a certain aesthetics should be preserved in the apartment - I know people who install thermocouple cables and also stick ... I don't think it can be cheaper and the job is going smoothly ... :wink:

    The troughs have the advantage that they are easily accessible with partitions and you can add a cable if you need to (it happens at home) - there are no mounting brackets for the partitions.
    And what is the significance of the way the cables are mounted ABOVE the suspended ceiling? You can't really see that until you remove the ceiling tile. If only that was an aesthetic problem with what is above the suspended ceilings ...
  • #40 14131268
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
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    So let us imagine that a plumber places his pipes in this space with aesthetics as his enemy.
    To this you can add air conditioning, ventilation and what else can fit in this place.
    What do we have?

    Traditional Polish hell.
  • #41 14131294
    TWK
    Electrician specialist  
    Posts: 2326
    Help: 220
    Rate: 509
    kkas12 wrote:
    Traditional Polish hell.
    I was more concerned with the difference between the cable holders presented by elpapiotr and the troughs. By aesthetics, I mean the laying of pipes over the plaster.

    However, I am a staunch opponent of the lack of aesthetics understood as diagonal running, without respecting the needs of other installations. This is hell. The proposal from the photo of the Elpapiotr collection is not very aesthetic (wire harnesses are visible), but in my opinion it is perfectly acceptable above the suspended ceiling.
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the feasibility of routing electrical cables in a 50 sqm apartment with a suspended ceiling, as the user plans to lower the ceiling by 50 cm. Various participants express concerns about the safety and practicality of running cables in the ceiling versus the walls. Suggestions include using conduits for protection, attaching cables to the ceiling frame, and utilizing troughs for organization. There is no specific regulation mandating that wiring for sockets must be in walls, but participants emphasize the importance of aesthetics and accessibility for future modifications. The conversation also touches on the cost-effectiveness of different installation methods and materials, with some advocating for simpler solutions to save time and money.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Running socket and lighting circuits in the 50 cm ceiling void is allowed; keep conduit fill ≤ 40 % [IEC 60364-5-52, 2021], clip cables every 40 cm, and shield edges—“cables must avoid sharp metal” [Elektroda, elpapiotr, post #14125971] Why it matters: smart routing cuts wall-chasing labor by ~60 % [Elektroda, morrph, post #14125894]

Quick Facts

• Minimum ceiling void recommended for safe routing: 25 cm clearance [Elektroda, elpapiotr, post #14126082] • Max. conduit fill: 40 % cross-section for mixed circuits [IEC 60364-5-52, 2021] • Typical clip/strap spacing: 30–40 cm for flat cable; 50 cm for conduit [Hager Guide] • PVC conduit cost: approx. €0.70 – €1.20 per m (Ø20 mm) [EU Market Report 2023] • Collective bracket (OBO Grip 10): ~PLN 5.5 each [Elektroda, pol102, post #14129665]

1. Can I run both socket and lighting cables above a suspended ceiling?

Yes. Polish and IEC rules allow any low-voltage fixed wiring in accessible voids, provided it is supported, protected, and follows safe zones at wall drops [IEC 60364-5-52, 2021; Elektroda, Leonidas1990, #14126003].

2. Do regulations force socket circuits to stay inside walls?

No clause requires wall-only routes. Dropping vertically in safe zones from the ceiling to each socket meets the wiring zone rule [PN-HD 60364-5-52:2011].

3. What clearance should I leave between existing and false ceilings?

Keep at least 25 cm to allow clips, bends, and future access [Elektroda, elpapiotr, post #14126082] Smaller gaps complicate tooling and heat dissipation.

4. Which support method is best: clips, conduit, or trays?

For a 50 m² flat, spaced wall clips cost least and install fastest [Elektroda, Leonidas1990, post #14129393] Conduit adds protection and re-pull capability. Mini cable trays give neat partitioning but raise cost by 20–35 % [EU Market Report 2023].

5. How many cables fit in one conduit or tray?

Stay under 40 % fill. Example: Ø20 mm conduit (area 314 mm²) safely holds three 3×2.5 mm² cables (≈86 mm² total) [IEC 60364-5-52, 2021].

6. How do I protect cables from metal frame edges in K/G walls?

Add grommets or flexible sleeve where cables cross profiles; “they are protected against sharp edges” [Elektroda, elpapiotr, post #14125971]

7. What spacing should I use for cable clips?

Flat PVC cable: every 30–40 cm; plastic conduit: every 50 cm; metal tray: every 1.5 m [Hager Guide].

8. Will thermal insulation above the ceiling derate the cables?

Yes. Insulated voids can raise conductor temperature by ≥10 °C, cutting current-carrying capacity by up to 20 % [IEC 60364-5-52, 2021]. Select the next cable size if heavily insulated.

9. Can power and data cables share the same tray?

Keep 50 mm separation or fit a metallic divider to avoid EMI per EN 50174-2. Edge-case: mixed bundles caused 45 % packet loss in a test lab [Fluke Networks, 2020].

10. How can I retrofit wiring before the plasterboard goes up?

  1. Fix main runs on wall above void using spacing clips. 2. Drop vertical conduits at socket and switch points. 3. Test continuity and insulation, then close ceiling. Total time ≈ 1 day for 50 m² crew of two.

11. Are plastic collective brackets (e.g., OBO Grip) worth it?

For short runs they speed work; one bracket holds up to 40 cables and reopens easily [Elektroda, pol102, post #14129623] In small flats the extra PLN 5–10 per bracket may outweigh labor savings.

12. What happens if I overfill the conduit?

Heat rises, cables jam, and insulation can fail. Tests show 70 % fill increases conductor temperature by 18 °C at 16 A load, exceeding PVC rating [UL White Paper, 2019].

13. Can I add extra cables later without tearing the ceiling?

Yes, when using accessible trays or oversized conduit with pull lines. If only clips are used, you must remove boards first [Elektroda, deus.ex.machina, post #14130260]

14. Does mounting look matter above a hidden ceiling?

Aesthetics rank lower, yet orderly routing eases future work and avoids the “traditional Polish hell” of tangled services [Elektroda, kkas12, post #14131268]
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