Reed Switches in Windows: Alarm Integration, 4-Wire Contracts, WK1/WK2 Fittings & Keyed Handle

Question

Hello everyone :D I am green in the topics of alarms, electrics, etc. and unfortunately I faced the choice of windows and I was completely alone on the battlefield. We are currently building a house, but due to my husband's type of work, it was up to me to make most of the decisions. And...

zuczek1987 · Answer

The reed switches purchased together with the windows will be nicely hidden and will not hurt your eyes. However, if they are installed later by alarm workers, they will be additional window devices, visible and not as aesthetic as the factory ones. The 4-wire Reed switch in the window is rather standard, so there is no point in asking about them. It is worth remembering to distribute the wiring for these Reed switches already at the construction stage, and if there are also roller shutters, it may be worth thinking about Reed switches next to the roller shutter. Such a system would then have perimeter protection, and additionally it could remind that something was left open (window / roller shutter). Personally, I would also think about the reed switches at the top of the window to know if it is ajar, but this is just my private opinion. Coming back to the topic, the price they proposed results from the market and the competition is similar.

rokycky · Answer

No window is really burglar-proof, so it's better to set up an alarm and not think about it. Factory reed switches, yes, mainly because of the window warranty.

Whether they will be planted at the factory or later by an installer with some experience in this matter and artistic skills, the effect will be practically the same, it only depends on the degree of commitment of the contractor.

Personally, I would pay extra for the reed switches and ignore these fittings and handles because they are rubbish.

suworow · Answer

I guess there are junks that are not missing in agents what are surface reed switches on loops after installing window sills. Someone who has at least a little idea about it will do it on mortise no worse than factory . And on the subject, if for the PLN 40 they do it aesthetically and professionally (in the right places with the appropriate grabbing tolerance) and by the way we avoid scuffles with a guarantee, it is probably worth it. Let me remind you that the window can not only be opened but also broken. greetings

zendenman · Answer

Contractors in windows are a trick of window producers to attract customers. The alarm will go off a few seconds earlier than with a normal detector in the room. Is it worth paying for the connection, wires and space in the control panel to have a security that can be bypassed by breaking the glass? A shock detector on the doorframe would probably be a better solution.

suworow · Answer

similar to me, the windows can be persuaded and then it only washes over and over again ... It seemed to me that everyone who deals with alarm systems knows what is the idea of a perimeter system, one of the elements of which are reed switches ....... and here is such a surprise greetings

zendenman · Answer

Maybe a colleague will explain to everyone why invest in activating reed switches if they are so easy to circumvent. What is this perimeter security in which we have to protect the room with other sensors. Perhaps you could take part in the discussion using arguments rather than scoring someone else's supposed lack of knowledge. As for the window manufacturers, let them make windows and not trick people into selling windows with alarms.

luk9753 · Answer

Reed relays are installed primarily to protect the building during the presence of users in the facility. I implement it as a night zone, where the motion sensors are not armed or blocked. I used to install a lot of recessed reed switches, the assembly took place at the construction stage, where there was no plaster on the object and it was possible to install such a sensor professionally and without negative impact on the aesthetics. Each security feature has its advantages and disadvantages if the system is to be armed with the presence of users. the reed switches are definitely yes, because the typical external circuitry is, unfortunately, very expensive ...

iMarek9 · Answer

There are also wireless opening sensors, e.g. in Jablotron systems
Link
if Link .
The sensors are thin enough to be attached to the frame of the window when it is opened. They are practically invisible.
The downside is the price, exceeding PLN 40.

Tomiks · Answer

Are you intentionally using an incorrect item name to cynically highlight the contractual / business nature of the problem? Otherwise, the posts of "experts" are suitable for the trash because of their spelling.

The use of window frame opening sensors for alarm purposes is a far-reaching issue when the "opening" of the glass does not force the frame to be opened, eg when the glass is not durable enough.

luk9753 wrote:
Contracts are installed primarily to secure the building while users are present in the facility. I implement it as a night zone where motion sensors are not armed or blocked.

Why make life difficult for people and expose them to accidental alarm activation when, for example, they wake up at night to get some fresh air through the window?

You are not saying that the essence of using these sensors is to react only to the case when we close the sash without turning the handle and it is opened by a burglar who will just want to use it to enter without destroying the glass?

I think that the only greater sense of their use would be only in cooperation with another locking sensor of the lock to detect cases of leaving one of the unlocked windows when we leave the building and arm the alarm. This could prevent us from opening the window by the wind, flooding by cutting rain or triggering a false alarm by animals entering the room.
In addition, such a sensor could automatically turn off the heating in the room temporarily when we open the window to ventilate it.

_ZBYCH_ · Answer

Hello

I have been assembling alarm systems for 22 years (including for about 19 years perimeter systems with reed sensors recessed in frames and inertial detectors).
Never has any producer or seller of windows had any objections to the installation of sensors by us, let alone withdraw the warranty due to the installation of sensors outside the factory.

At the beginning, maybe a word about why installing reed switches at all.
Well, in order to:
1. Create an effective alarm system that quickly detects an intrusion attempt
(reed switches in combination with inertial detectors).
2. Be able to move freely around the house with an armed alarm system.
3. Being able to sleep with a tilted window secured by an alarm system
4. Be able to detect an open or tilted window or the position of the handle when leaving the house (depending on the type of sensor and mounting method).
5. Be able to leave pets at home.

It is not true that a good alarm system will replace mechanical protection.
You should not give up on fittings and glass with increased burglary resistance.
Only a combination of mechanical security (minimum WK1 fittings and minimum P2 glass) in combination with a full perimeter system (reed switches + inertial detectors) + motion detectors in the main points of the house (3 - 4 pcs.) Is an effective protection of the house. The thief will trigger an alarm at the first impact on a window or glass, try to hammer a crowbar or otherwise intervene in a window or door, and stronger mechanical protection (WK1 - WK3 hardware and P2 - P4 panes) will keep him outside. He won't have time to wrestle with the window any more, because an emergency patrol is on its way.

Nor is it true that reed sensors are easy to bypass.
First, you need to know how many sensors are in the window and where they are installed.
Second, you need a very large and strong magnet.
Thirdly, the reed switch is a sensor that complements the perimeter system - the main element of protection is an inertial detector.
Fourth, there are many types of such sensors - including fraudulent detection and RFID sensors - that cannot be bypassed.

Regarding the installation of reed switches by the window manufacturer - Customers threatened with the loss of the warranty in the case of installation of reed switches by alarm system installers, sometimes decide to install the sensors by the manufacturer. They pay a lot of money for this service, and the results are meager.
Here are some examples:

Badly installed sensor - not only is it not working, but it has also been destroyed by the magnetic roller of the fitting, which tore the plastic cover of the sensor and damaged the inside of the detector.

Here is another example of "expert" sensor assembly by the factory.
I think they used a penknife to pick holes for the sensors. Too small holes and the lack of chamfering prevented the sensors from being fully inserted, so they protrude slightly. Questionable aesthetics.
In addition, the sensors were hammered in and some of them were damaged.

Of course, alarm system installers also sometimes do not have the knowledge, appropriate tools and experience, so they bother installing the sensors.
World record here:

The client did not accept our offer because it was probably too expensive. Took another installer. This one had no idea how to install reed switches in the windows.
He glued ordinary, top reed switches to the bottom strips collecting water dripping down the window and made holes for wires in them - probably there will be no water leaking inside under the windows and window sills ...
This installer broke down after "mounting" the reed switches. The client later called us to finish, but due to the mass of other flowers, we did not take up the topic.

Here are pathetic attempts to match the magnet to the sensor - one too little, it gave two

In addition, drilling on the joint of the window frame (and multiple times) - with such an installation, the window manufacturer will probably automatically withdraw the warranty for the window!

Here, the top reed switch on the roof window - it seems to work, but the aesthetics leaves much to be desired ...

Here is another "professional" assembly with a magnet visible from the outside of the house!

In my experience, companies producing / selling windows install any kind of sensors, and after installation, they do not even check whether the installed sensor is working properly. People in production do not know at all how such a sensor works and, as a rule, are not able to set it up and test it. They do it without knowing it.
It is completely independent of the window manufacturer, price or type of sensor. Recently, one of the largest Polish companies producing windows and doors has installed the highest model of windows (oak, triple-pane with P4 anti-burglary glass + WK3 anti-burglary fittings and top-class opening sensors - RFID) for one of its clients. Windows for about 100 thousand. (medium-sized house). Several sensors were installed incorrectly. Their service came several times and they did not know what was going on and what to do with it. Ba! Even the chief technologist of such a large company did not know! Why go for something that you don't know?
The RFID sensors alone cost several thousand zlotys! Failure!

Several of our clients decided to install system reed sensors by the window manufacturer, because the window seller threatened them with the loss of the window warranty when installing the sensors outside the factory (!). It is known that the more the seller sells, the higher the commission he has, so they try to squeeze as many "factory" options as possible to their customers.

Many of the mounted sensors did not work because they were mounted incorrectly. Window suppliers were usually from distant cities (because it was cheaper ...), so there was no way to count on their service (apart from the professionalism of the service itself and their knowledge of sensors ...).

To sum up - window producers have no knowledge about the types of sensors, methods of operation, principles of assembly and regulation. Just wanting to earn extra, traders press customers to install sensors at the factory, and then Mr. Kazio in production has a dilemma how to install it ...
Ultimately, the customer and the installer of the alarm system are left with the problem.

By the way, in large cities it is easier to find a professional installer of alarm systems and commission him to install sensors. There is usually a problem with this in smaller towns :-(

Regarding the cost of assembly, for me, the reed switch sensor costs 45 PLN net with professional installation and connection to the alarm system in a double resistor (2EOL) configuration, so if the manufacturer has similar costs to drill a hole and press any, the cheapest sensor, it is expensive.

This is what recessed reed sensors installed by us look like:

This is what the recessed sensors mounted by us in roof windows look like:

Here are two reed switches in the sunroof - they detect both opening and tilting the window:

This is what inertial detectors look like:

I inertial detectors painted to match the color of windows and doors:

One more thing, thieves rarely break the glass in the window, and if they do, it is in order to turn the handle and open the window, not to enter through the hole in the glass.
As a rule, a crowbar moves and the window is balanced - here, an inertial detector is activated immediately or a hole is drilled in the frame and a handle or a sliding hardware is opened.
When drilling in the window, the inertial detector should also work.

Regards
ZBYCH

luk9753 · Answer

I also saw a lot of such a particle, but such a photo with a thermoplastic window is not yet. World Championship. Besides, I always manned and tuned contractors in such a way that they did not react to the tilt of the window.

mekkki · Answer

It looks nice in the windows, and what are your ways to install reed switches in external roller shutters?

sledzik1 · Answer

In roller shutters, due to the small distance at the bottom between the roller shutter and the strip (movable and fixed parts - e.g. I saw a small round neodymium magnet glued to the moving part (a magnet the size of 50 cents) and in the place where it is a sawn strip is mounted and a fixed element is installed in such a way that it covers the opening.Other solutions (e.g. K-1 satellite) look bad and there is not much to install to hide the blind completely

Yogi_ · Answer

Hello

Definitely with reed switches, although it adds to the wiring costs. But ... ignoring alarms, you can apply to something that is to control the opening of a window, e.g. heating or air conditioning.

greetings
Krzysiek

_ZBYCH_ · Answer

Here is another professional installation of reed sensors made by the window manufacturer - WindowsPlus (2017). The no-name reed switch is glued inside the frame, but on the outside. Only about 10 mm of plastic separates it from the outer part of the window. It can be blocked from the outside with just any magnet! In addition, it is mounted at the top of the window, which makes it impossible, for example, to sleep with a tilted window and simultaneously secured with an alarm! To what nonsense WindowsPlus writes on its website: Lie! The reed switches are only open sensors, not balance sensors. It is absolutely not true that the reed switches sound the alarm when the thief tries to get home! Such attempts to force a window open are detected by inertial (impact) detectors, not by reed switches. Lie! We gain nothing and we do not increase the chance of preventing theft. The reed switch will work WHEN OPENING THE WINDOW , i.e. a few seconds before the internal motion detector is triggered. Only inertial (impact) detectors detect attempts to force the window open (e.g. prying with a crowbar) and in combination with the so-called. burglar alarms give you valuable time and the ability to prevent theft. The alarm will be triggered when hammering the crowbar (and not only after breaking the window - as in the case of the reed switches themselves), and the thief remains outside and struggles with the window. This is what gives you that precious time to prevent theft! Another marketing crap suggesting that only at the production stage it is possible to aesthetically and invisibly mount the reed switches. Just look at my photos in this thread ... Only marketing gibberish is perfect here ... They mislead customers on purpose! The client does not know each other, so he believes in a large, well-known company ... At our client's, they installed sensors in several windows so that they do not work, so they did it simply - without checking. We'll see how they handle it :) To sum up (information for customers) - the alarm system should be installed by a specialized company (also window sensors). Then one company is responsible for the whole and you have a chance to protect perfectly! A good perimeter system is a combination of reed switches and inertial (impact) detectors + several internal motion detectors. Of course, the investment in window fittings (i.e. hinges and locks) with increased burglary resistance greatly improves the entire security system. Anti-burglary fittings give additional time to stop the intruder outside with the alarm already wailing and the intervention crew on their way to the scene. .

sosarek · Answer

@_ZBYCH_ You are right, but why should the client order it to an installer who will do it properly as you can do the art and collect additional PLN 150 each. out of the window, and that it has no aesthetic value about anti-balancing, not to mention anything else. Many customers, when they learn at the construction stage that there is such a thing as a reed switch, come with a similar advertising brochure and sometimes find it hard to explain that it has nothing to do with security. The best thing is that customers are afraid of losing the warranty, but most manufacturers allow the possibility of mounting recessed reed switches, and they are also available for surface mounting. As for the inertial - Lord, what do I need this for, after all, the neighbor will hear someone trying to break into me - then I'm asking why set up an alarm? You can also hang a string with cans around.

pasikonik5 · Answer

I do not understand in the first photo, why is the mounting screw marked in a smaller circle? It is a WinkHaus reed switch which is probably installed like this, of course the very position of the reed switch is bad, which caused the reel to damage it.

_ZBYCH_ · Answer

Find the difference :)

pasikonik5 · Answer

Well, I'm still asleep or I can't see anything except that the screw is in a different hole (we're talking about a smaller red circle all the time) Will you dazzle me?

_ZBYCH_ · Answer

I do not know if I will dazzle you, but I will explain what it is about. Pay attention to the size and type of screws. In the photo with the screw marked in the red circle, the sensor is attached with large, standard window hardware screws (C). The wrong screws with a countersunk head used make it impossible to adjust the sensor (moving to the sides), not to mention dubious aesthetics. The sensor should be screwed with cheese head screws (A, B) of a size that allows the sensor to be moved sideways within the range provided by the manufacturer. The fittings fitter did not want to do a few more steps (marking places for screws, drilling holes, unpacking the screws from the sensor kit, using a different screwdriver, etc.). It was easier and faster to knock down the sensor with a screwdriver for fittings screws with one move ... The magnet in the hardware component is weak, so the sensor must be precisely mounted and adjusted, not just screwed on to hold it securely. Knowledge and work culture are bowing :) .

pasikonik5 · Answer

I get it now, that's right.
As for the sensitivity of the sensor, I found that it was mounted with a "dry gauge" (checked when it closes at what position), but after installing the control panel, it turned out that it did not work. And it was indeed necessary to adjust the position

_ZBYCH_ · Answer

In my experience, these sensors can be quite unstable over time.
Probably this mini magnet in the roll demagnetizes, or the reed switch itself changes its parameters under the influence of temperature.
Therefore, I do not recommend them to my clients - the cost is inadequate to the benefits.
.

margorz · Answer

Can you reveal which reed switches you use in the windows of your clients?

Reed Switches in Windows: Alarm Integration, 4-Wire Contracts, WK1/WK2 Fittings & Keyed Handle

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