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Upgrading to a 3-Phase Connection for 11kW Power in Apartment with 25A Protection

Elektronik2013 30558 25
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 14256897
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    Hello. In the apartment I have a connection power of 5kW, protection 25A. The power of the devices is constantly growing, some new kettles, irons are almost 3kW each, so I am thinking of increasing the connection power and switching to 3 phases. I have 4 4mm wires connected to my apartment (no protective wire) so separation is possible. At the moment, after turning on the 3000W iron and 2100W kettle, I already have the theoretical contractual power of 5kW exceeded, the protection is 25A, so the maximum power is actually 5750W. Standard appliances in the apartment - washing machine, dryer, electric kettle, iron, plasma TV, microwave, oven, computer, laptop, etc. In some blocks electronic meters are already installed that control the maximum power and probably in some time the supplier will check whether someone does not exceed contracted power. I think it is worth dividing into 3 phases, 16A protections which will give a power of 11kW. After switching to 3 phases, I would divide the circuits, e.g. kitchen into one, rooms and lighting into another, bathroom into a third. Do you know how much it costs at PGE to increase the connection power by 6kW if it is a flat and the wires are already there, there is also a three-phase access to the connection point. There are amounts of about PLN 150 per kW on the Internet, but in most cases it is about houses and new cables, more work when connecting. In my case, all that is needed is a meter replacement and new security measures. Thank you in advance for your answer and I wish you a happy holiday.
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  • #2 14256919
    karolark
    Level 42  
    Not so fast and cheap :-( , I tried to replace it with 3f, when I counted the costs, I assumed priority points :-)
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  • #3 14256954
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    A priority relay is a solution, but I would prefer to switch to 3f and increase the power, one-time expense and peace of mind for years. After getting into good electronic meters, suppliers will probably monitor this maximum consumption if someone often exceeds the extra money for them.
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  • #4 14256958
    zbich70
    Level 43  
    Elektronik2013 wrote:
    Do you know how much it costs at PGE to increase the connection power by 6kW if it is a flat and the wires are already there, there is also a three-phase access to the connection point.

    The amount of the connection fee is in operator's tariff
    But it is not a fee for adapting the receiving installation to the increased power.
    You pay for this to an electrician who will adapt the installation and certify it in an appropriate letter.
  • #5 14257004
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    According to this tariff, the cost of the increase itself is PLN 58.38 x 6kW (I increase it by this amount) = PLN 350.28 + the cost of replacing the meter and security. The security and the meter are not my property, so I do not know how the costs are counted here, I guess they do not count the price of the new meter and new security because it will still be theirs and the old ones will not come back to me, only some replacement cost?
  • #6 14257025
    karolark
    Level 42  
    Where's your counter? new wlz, new cables, new security, do not you think that it will be done for PLN 400?
  • #7 14257028
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    Counter in the stairwell 2 meters from the apartment. The wires from the apartment to the meter go 4x4mm copper. At the moment, 2 wires are used, and the next ones are prepared just for 3f. There is 3f to the box on the cage.
  • #8 14257036
    zbich70
    Level 43  
    Elektronik2013 wrote:
    Security and the meter are not my property so I don't know how the costs are calculated here

    Replacing the meter is at the operator's expense no matter where it is located.

    Whether the pre-meter protection is the property of the operator or yours is determined by the ownership / operation boundary / place of energy supply included in the existing contract with the operator.
  • #9 14257057
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    Elektronik2013 wrote:
    I have 4 4mm wires connected to the apartment (there is no protective wire) so separation is possible.
    Yeah, is it possible, only or the right one? :D
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  • #10 14257230
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    elpapiotr wrote:
    Yeah, is it possible, only or the right one? :D


    I know it should be 5 stranded. The installation in the apartment is 2-core, during renovation I will slowly replace it with a new 3-core.

    karolark wrote:
    don't you think that it will be done for PLN 400?


    That is why I am asking here how much it will all be. The costs in a new home are different than in an apartment. I am asking for the approximate cost of increasing the power, switching to 3 phases and all the works to make it possible.
  • #11 14257393
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #12 14257648
    michcio
    Electrician specialist
    16A pre-meter is not enough, because this is how much is installed in the socket circuits, and where is the security grading? There should be at least 20A ahead of the meter.
  • #14 14257767
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    michcio wrote:
    16A pre-meter is not enough, because this is how much is installed in the socket circuits, and where is the security grading? There should be at least 20A ahead of the meter.


    At the moment I have 25A with a power of 5kW and I would like to increase the power and switch to 3f so the smallest reasonable power at 3f is probably 11kW with 3x16A protection?

    Possibly, increasing the power to 7kW for this one phase, but I do not know if it will pass because the cable to the apartment is 4mm, the costs would certainly be lower and I think such power would be enough.
  • #15 14257800
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Nowadays, a person forcing the value of the pre-meter protection with a value of less than 25A (no matter if it is one or three phases) does not know what he is saying.

    And you will not avoid replacing the Wlz anyway.
    So don't wipe your ass with glass.
  • #16 14257996
    michcio
    Electrician specialist
    kkas12 wrote:
    Why not 25A ???

    As I said, a minimum of 20A, 25A is of course better.

    PS. Again, the problem with these three phases. As if it was humanly possible to take one phase with a 50 or 63A protection, then there would be no problem with ordering more than enough power just for the pre-meter protection to have some usable values.
  • #17 14258021
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #18 14258073
    jann111
    Level 33  
    Elektronik2013 wrote:
    In my case, all that is needed is a meter replacement and new security measures.

    No buddy, in your case it needs to be done in accordance with the Technical Conditions you will receive and the current regulations. And the rates for 2015 for connection capacity increase slightly and I repeat that the main protection smaller than 25 A is a shot in the knee. :D
  • #19 14258264
    slawekx
    Level 29  
    Elektronik2013 wrote:
    Hello. In the apartment I have a connection power of 5kW, protection 25A. In my case, all that is needed is meter replacement and new security measures. Thank you in advance for your answer and I wish you a happy holiday.

    Ask your PGE, set the conditions and commission a specialist to perform it.
  • #20 14258741
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #21 14263669
    michcio
    Electrician specialist
    It's not just about power. With B16A and gG 20A there will be no selectivity (if there will be a fuse at all ...).
  • #22 14268837
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    Thanks to everyone for your help. I decided to come back to the topic of increasing the power in a year or two or maybe later. In some time they will replace me with an electronic counter and then I will read from it how much of this power I actually use, it probably controls the maximum consumption and other parameters.

    @michcio at the moment I have a C 25A ES protection in front of the meter.

    Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice.
  • #23 14269155
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #24 14269171
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    @Jerzykowski Today I checked with my friends and the display showed 3 different values in turn. I have also seen one with a button that displays various information after successive presses.
  • #25 14269209
    karolark
    Level 42  
    Different or maybe they have a dual tariff? I have the same shows total, 1st tariff and second.
  • #26 14269236
    Elektronik2013
    Level 11  
    The one with the button is Corax, and the other one with alternating information, unfortunately I don't know, probably some older single-phase one, there was no obvious name on it.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around upgrading an apartment's electrical connection from a single-phase 5kW to a three-phase 11kW system due to increasing power demands from appliances. The user currently has a 25A protection and is concerned about exceeding the contracted power limits. Participants discuss the costs associated with the upgrade, including connection fees, the need for new wiring, and the replacement of the meter. Recommendations include consulting with an electrician and the energy operator for specific conditions and costs. The consensus suggests that a minimum of 20A protection is necessary, with some advocating for 25A to ensure adequate capacity. The user ultimately decides to postpone the upgrade until they can better assess their actual power usage with an electronic meter.
Summary generated by the language model.
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