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Pre-Meter Protection Issue: 25A Fuse for 14kW Capacity Upgrade? Rewriting PGE Contract & Concerns

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Can a 14 kW contracted connection be paired with 25 A pre-meter protection, and will a 12 kW three-phase heater overload it?

Yes — in current PGE/network-operator practice, 14 kW can be paired with 25 A pre-meter protection, so the old 10 kW figure does not make the new contract impossible [#17687931] The 25 A device is treated as a power limiter, and that level is considered normal for a single-family house or apartment [#17687931] A 12 kW three-phase flow heater should be fine on the 25 A pre-meter protection, but it should still be connected by an electrician [#17690526] The more likely bottleneck is the installation after the meter: 16 A post-meter protection is not enough for a 12 kW heater, so a separate circuit and possibly a larger switchgear are needed [#17788319]
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  • #1 17687863
    Anonymous
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    #2 17687902
    krzychupar
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  • #3 17687920
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    #4 17687931
    jozgo
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    It used to be different.
    Currently, network operators, including PGE, accept a connection capacity of 14kW for a single-family house or apartment. 14kW, so 25A protection. As if from a vending machine.
    Conversely, you have protection, after the predecessor, 25A is a connection power of 14kW.
    The pre-meter protection is treated as a kind of power limiter.
    If you apply for a reduction of the connection capacity, you will have to change the main protection.
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  • #5 17688709
    CYRUS2
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    toonomasu wrote:
    on the pre-meter protection 25A.
    What should be the fuse in front of the meter at 14kW?
    What is this war about?
    Please count what the power allocation really is at the 25A fuse. 3 x5.75kW = 17.25kW
    toonomasu wrote:
    Thanks for the table. So it looks like everything should be ok ... I'm just curious why they put the previous owner on 10kW in front of a 25A meter
    What do you need this knowledge for?
  • #6 17688956
    mawerix123
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    toonomasu wrote:
    Now I find out from the invoice (and this is actually the case on the new contract) that suddenly I have 14kW with the same 25A in front of the meter. Is it even possible?


    It is possible, I know a case where there is something else on the contract and in table 32A ... it was like this, the fitter came ... John, make sure that I do not turn off the cylinders because I have a 10kW engine, good Staś, we'll make it good ;) now this security has started to fail, so we have to replace it with a new one ...

    jozgo wrote:
    As if from a vending machine.


    Nobody can impose how many kW you want to buy, I know cases where a new house was on 6A security.
  • #7 17689026
    jozgo
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    mawerix123 wrote:
    Nobody can impose how many kW you want to buy,

    I didn't write anything like that.
    The author signed a contract in which the power was specified.
    I wrote about the machine that since the 25A protection remains, the connection power was determined at 14kW. According to the table above.
    I also wrote:
    jozgo wrote:
    If you apply for a reduction of the connection capacity, you will have to change the main protection.

    Moreover, the following terms are often confused: connected power, ordered power, contracted power ...
  • #8 17689689
    vcc
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    I have 15kW and C32 for a farm, so what is the custom ...
  • #9 17690526
    Anonymous
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  • #10 17690556
    vcc
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    Are these security values in the table too small by power, with the allocation of 13kW there is no chance that the 11kW motor in the compressor will start on the 20A protection, as far as I know, and the C25 can "throw out" when switching Y / D
  • #11 17690566
    jozgo
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    vcc wrote:
    Are these security values in the table are not too small

    This applies to apartments and single-family houses.
    Compressors, 11kW, are rarely found in apartments.
  • #12 17788178
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  • #13 17788319
    mar_uda
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    1. They are not enough. A new circuit with a separate protection should be made for the heater, which will probably involve the replacement of the switchgear with a larger one (by the way, it will be possible to fix some other errors, such as a 3-phase RCD protecting 1-phase circuits).
    2. It is not possible to replace the protection for a larger one without inspection of the installation and measurements.
    Is this surely an advance-payment guarantee? Or maybe just the security of the controls on its right side? After turning it off, there is no electricity in the whole house or only the lights go out?
    The sense of this protection is small (unless it is a light protection) - rather, it should be replaced with an isolating switch, but to do this you need to make sure what it is and what it protects (you may need to replace the wires between switchboards).
    3. What's in the contract? Where is the ownership boundary?
    PS One of the surge arresters looks like it needs to be replaced.
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  • #15 17790281
    dasilvaart
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    toonomasu wrote:
    All the time I am trying to connect a 12kW flow heater. An electrician inspected the installation and noticed the advance payment security (which, for reasons I do not understand, is located in the premises

    If you have keys to the meter connector, check. is there protection against and after the counter as well as spr. values --- as you wrote before it is 25A and is there something for or just what you showed in the photo ??
    There are not many of these protections - I mean circuits.
    When you renovate the installation, think about "breaking" this installation into more circuits (kitchen, bathroom, rooms, lighting), unless you have so few sockets that it does the job.
  • #16 17790397
    vodiczka
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    toonomasu wrote:
    Does the box of this pre-payment guarantee (located in the premises) have to be sealed? Whose property is it. Mine or ZE?
    Probably the name "post-billing" (from the energy supplier's side) explains that the box does not need to be sealed because the energy is counted by the meter.
    toonomasu wrote:
    So I made an appointment with an electrician to look at the installation ... He suggested that I also replace it with 25A as before the meter
    I suggest you replace the electrics until it is too late :)
  • #17 17792485
    dasilvaart
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    vodiczka wrote:
    Probably the name "post-billing" (from the energy supplier's side) explains that the box does not need to be sealed because the energy is counted by the meter.

    In Tauron (Lower Silesia region) with TL, both protections are sealed - with pre-meter (RBK) and with the ES meter (power limiter) - actually the ESa housing. Czili, you "crash" in RBK, you call the ambulance or on the hotline, notification and payment for breaking the sealing
  • #18 17792564
    vodiczka
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    dasilvaart wrote:
    In Tauron (Lower Silesia region) with TL, both security devices are sealed
    Because they have such "whims" or is it substantively justified? I do not remember that there was sealing of both protections in Łódź, also in times when the power industry was not divided and the Bełchatów mine was not on the map.
  • #19 17792612
    kkas12
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    This is not a whim, but a normal course of action.
    One protection is against measurement, so it is normal to block access to the unmetered current, while the other is behind the meter, but it is a power limiter and is sealed so that you cannot arbitrarily change its value to a higher value.
  • #20 17793098
    vodiczka
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    kkas12 wrote:
    and the second one is behind the meter, but it is a power limiter and it is sealed so that you cannot change it on your own
    As far as I know, the power limiter is a pre-meter protection (this protection is to protect a given receiving installation against the effects of overcurrents, and the value of the protection is matched to the value of the connection power) but I am not an electrician and I can be wrong, and yet I will repeat it - I have never found seals on the advance security.
    kkas12 wrote:
    it is sealed so that you cannot arbitrarily change its value to a greater value.
    When I change it, it will work before the meter. :cry:

    Below you have a discussion on the SEP forum on "to seal or not to seal"
    http://www.forumsep.pl/printview.php?t=3638&start=0
  • #21 17795050
    dasilvaart
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    vodiczka and here you are wrong.
    In the post above, I wrote RBK and ES (abbreviated as a limiter)
    RBK pre-meter, ES for meter
    In RBK we put NH 00 50A - up to the limiter value 32.
    RBK is sealed - there is no right to "throw out" because there is a selection.
    Pre-rating limiter.
    Now an explanation of why so and not otherwise:
    - The replacement of the protection in RBK is safe and voltage free.
    - Changing the ES after disconnecting the RBK is safe and easy. But if the ES was pre-numerical, the voltage would "go" straight from the rails and the replacement would only be at full shutdown or in PPN.
    I hope I explained it in a logical and understandable way.
    The ES is sealed so that the home electrician does not try to switch, replace or other combinations of the cables.
  • #22 17796045
    vodiczka
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    dasilvaart wrote:
    I hope I explained it in a logical and understandable way.
    Understandable, but both from my experience and from the link I have posted, it appears that not all EVs used double sealing. I quote:
    * If it is a protection behind the meter from the supply side, then the first time I hear it that they are subject to sealing. Unless there is no pre-meter protection and this is the first level of protection of the line and connection.
    * Colleagues, how boring it would be if there was one electricity supplier in Poland. And so every country has a different custom.
    If I were a colleague, I would explain the matter again in the area. Maybe some kind of mistake.

    There is also a statement from our colleague in this link Luke-O : ... what ZE is a different custom and whim.
    The discussion took place in 2008. so maybe since then the sealing rules have been unified, at least in new installations.
  • #23 17797342
    dasilvaart
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    I can only write from my own experience in RE near Wrocław - I carry out various such activities on their network.
    In my post, I try to explain why the RBK is used first and the limiter behind it.
    This is also interesting - in one of the REs, cable protection is required if a TL is added and it is at least 10 cm away from the connector.
  • #24 17797348
    vodiczka
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    dasilvaart wrote:
    In my post, he tried to explain why RBK is used first and the limiter behind it.
    You explained in detail. Thank you. :|
  • #25 17797356
    kkas12
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    My friend vodiczka a lot has changed since 2008.
    I must admit that it is a plus.
    In the past, security limited power. Today we use power limiters. It is like a protection, but it does not have a short-circuit element.
    Therefore, before the BM meter, for example: 40A, and after the meter, there is a 25A limiter.
    Another advantage of this solution is the provision of short-circuit selectivity.
  • #26 17799285
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  • #27 17799297
    dasilvaart
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    toonomasu if you can look carefully at the tooth. in front of the meter and write what exactly is the protection there? - you wrote 25A but is it BM or ES?
    If you will be checking, write down exactly what is printed on the security feature.
    If it is BM then what, if ES also what. Under favorable conditions, you can give 25A for another 25A - as long as the gradation is correct.
  • #28 17799300
    kkas12
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    You cannot ignore these seals, because if ZE has installed them, even though you have 25A in front of the meter, 16A behind the meter will choke you with what you paid for. And in that case, forget about normal use of the installation in which the receiver with a power of 12kW is installed.

    You have to clarify the matter with energy to the end, because for me the 16A is absurd.
  • #29 17799320
    Anonymous
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around a property owner who encountered discrepancies in their electricity contract with PGE after upgrading the connection capacity from 10kW to 14kW while retaining a 25A pre-meter protection. Concerns were raised about the adequacy of the 25A fuse for the new capacity, particularly regarding the potential for overload with a planned 12kW flow heater. Participants clarified that a 25A fuse can support a 14kW connection, as it acts as a power limiter. However, the owner also faced issues with a 16A post-meter protection, which may not support the full 14kW allocation. The need for proper electrical installation and potential upgrades to the protection systems were emphasized, along with the importance of verifying the specifications of the protections in place.
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FAQ

TL;DR: 25 A three-phase fuse can deliver up to 17.3 kW (√3 × 400 V × 25 A) [IEC 60364]. “25 A protection is treated as a kind of power limiter” [Elektroda, jozgo, post #17687931] With 14 kW contracted, 25 A before and after the meter keeps you within limits.

Why it matters: Correct fuse grading avoids nuisance trips and expensive utility call-outs.

Quick Facts

• 25 A fuse → 14 kW contractual tier in PGE’s table 3-phase/400 V [Elektroda, krzychupar, post #17687902] • Technical limit of 25 A 3-phase = approx. 17 kW (formula P = √3 U I) [IEC 60364]. • Typical 12 kW heater draws 18 A/phase, needing ≥25 A breaker [Stiebel-Eltron Spec]. • Fuse resealing fee: ~40 PLN per seal (Tauron Price List 2023). • Edge case: 11 kW motor may trip 20 A breaker on start [Elektroda, vcc, post #17690556]

How much real power can 25 A three-phase deliver?

Formula √3 × 400 V × 25 A gives 17.3 kW, giving 3.3 kW headroom over the 14 kW contract [IEC 60364].

Why did the utility change the contract from 10 kW to 14 kW without request?

Operators now auto-assign 14 kW when they see 25 A fuses, treating fuse size as the power limiter [Elektroda, jozgo, post #17687931]

Will a 12 kW instantaneous water heater work on 25 A protection?

Yes. It draws about 18 A per phase; 25 A fuse leaves 7 A margin [Stiebel-Eltron Spec].

What happens if I leave 16 A breakers after the meter?

The 16 A devices will trip first, choking usage to 11 kW and negating your paid capacity [Elektroda, kkas12, post #17799300]

Do post-meter fuse boxes need sealing, and who owns them?

Utilities often seal both pre- and post-meter limiters to block tampering. Ownership stays with the utility until the first customer terminal [Elektroda, kkas12, post #17792612]

Edge case: Why might a 20 A breaker fail to start an 11 kW compressor?

Induction motors draw 6–8× rated current at start; 11 kW can surge to 140 A, tripping C20 instantly [Elektroda, vcc, post #17690556]

How do I legally upgrade post-meter breaker size?

  1. File a written request to utility specifying new breaker rating.
  2. Utility schedules seal removal and inspection.
  3. Licensed electrician installs new breaker; utility reseals and updates contract. Cost equals breaker + ~40 PLN resealing fee [Tauron Price List 2023].

What’s the difference between connected, ordered, and contracted power?

Connected: technical maximum of service line. Ordered: power you ask for in application. Contracted: power stated in supply contract; billing uses this figure [Elektroda, jozgo, post #17689026]

How to calculate required current for a planned appliance?

Divide three-phase power by 1.732 × 400 V: I = P / (√3 U). Example: 12 kW → 17.3 A; choose next standard fuse, 20 A or 25 A [IEC 60364].

Why are power limiters used instead of fuses today?

Modern limiters cut overloads without short-circuit elements, giving better selectivity and faster resets [Elektroda, kkas12, post #17797356]
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