Should the disconnector in the switchboard also disconnect the N line ?

Question

Question as per topic ... And it came about in the fact that when I look at my (2) switchboards the disconnectors are only on the phases (FR 103) and the N wire is not disconnected. And when I look at various examples it is rather that all conductors are disconnected, except PE of course (using...

zdzisiek1979 · Accepted Answer

Some do it this way others do it that way

in order to disconnect N the disconnector must have this option and more specifically the N track must have a delay in disconnecting N and an advance in switching on the N track then the risk of asymmetry and damage to consumers is eliminated.
In my opinion, there is no need for N disconnection and you can theoretically save one field in a row. In addition, I disregard the fact that the possibility of N loosening in the terminal will, for one thing, burn out the disconnector and, for another, asymmetry may occur (two terminals two weak points along the N path).

zdzisiek1979 · Accepted Answer

I am not familiar with the methods. A distributor should always be selected with an allowance for the future, but probably more for the convenience of installation. If it is selected to fit, or if it is too big/expensive, this will pay off in time.

gogi20 · Accepted Answer

The conclusion is that one 3-f RCD for the whole is a mistake in art and there is nothing to discuss how to patch it. This is simply not how it should be done.

elpapiotr · Accepted Answer

. Then you have to use a switchboard with 80 fields, there will be space. And then it is done like this :

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

In a huge number of sites this works well. RCD 3F for the whole thing is not an error in the art. . A less comfortable solution. Just that. But widely used (low price). In your case, it's rumoured that you don't have room for a better solution.

pqma · Answer

That is, as I understand it, it is good and even better. Thanks!

gogi20 · Answer

I have the same opinion as zdzisiek1979. It has never yet occurred to me to pass N through FR. Passing N through the FR is, however, also an acceptable option, provided that the FR has a dedicated N track (3P+N) just as colleague zdzisiek1979 mentioned.

pqma · Answer

If you're so kind, I'll expand my question to include whether it would be possible to somehow reduce the number of modules used to connect the two switchboards (I'm running out of space to put in the automation so every module counts).

The connection is 3F and currently it is implemented so that in the main one there is Ska wide for 3 modules and in the second FR also for 3 modules.

Do you perhaps know of a solution (e.g. 2 module) to connect these switchboards correctly ? I've seen somewhere that people sometimes do without this Ski in the main, but I think that's overkill.

pqma · Answer

He just got his revenge, although I was unfortunately not asked by anyone if I wanted a spare ...

gogi20 · Answer

With something like that, it's off to the fortune teller:) This main eska is probably the protection for the cable to the second distribution board? The FR in the second switchboard will not be eliminated. You can always replace the switchgear, although that's a cost and quite a lot of work (certainly more than installing a switchgear with a spare right away:) ). Alternatively, a separate switchboard could be set aside for the 'automation'.

Anonymous · Answer

Conclusion from your statements - in every installation where there is one 3-f RCD for the whole, a diode jumper should be placed on the N contact in the RCD - so that the RCD does not make a break in N.

pqma · Answer

Well, yes with this Ska you are right ...

The switchboard is 3x12 clogged 100%. I've even already bought a second one for the automation, but I'm thinking of replacing the switchgear with a bigger one. I'm afraid, however, that it will turn out, for example, that some of the wires/cables are physically cut too short and there will be a problem with connecting circuits ...

Is it possible to solve this somehow? What to do if 15cm of wire from one of the circuits is missing ? I can't imagine too much hoeing, unless it can be done safely and legally ...

Added after 2 [minutes]:

Bronek22 wrote:
a diode jumper should be placed on the N contact of the RCD - so that the RCD does not make a break in the N.

.

And does it do ?? I don't know, I don't know. Maybe it only interrupts the phase ?

Sorry, I read it disconnects all

.

elpapiotr · Answer

. Surely there will be no shortage if, for example, such badges are used -. .

pqma · Answer

. But lovely, what is it called ? Are there any other patents of this type ?? I would like to have so much space in the switchboard

pqma · Answer

My wife would probably kick me out of the house,and certainly out of the pantry where this switchboard is .... Although a friend of mine who is just building a house has put two automation cabinets the size of a very large fridge inside ... now I know why ... Added after 2 [minutes]: This worried me even more mate because it was supposed to be one of the solutions to the lack of space .... and a mistake by the electrician because there are no RCDs on all circuits where they should be .... Added after 10 [minutes]: But on the other hand, I don't think it matters whether it's an RCD for the whole building or for one circuit (multiple RCDs). The scale is different but the problem of order of N disconnection can always arise.

Anonymous · Answer

Mate, RCDs 3-f on the whole work in very many flats and houses. The only inconvenience is that if the RCD trips frequently, it is difficult to determine the cause of the trip. But on a new installation and with functioning consumers, RCD trips are rare. So there is nothing to make a problem out of it. Added after 6 [minutes]: Not at all. The problem of N disconnection is only in the line or 3-phase conductor. With a 1-F RCD there is no such option. In a 1-F circuit, the N problem can be disconnected at will. There is no risk of a voltage increase.

pqma · Answer

. So you don't recommend serving the whole sub-distribution board from one 3F RCD (main also 3F of course, cable between them 5 wires)?

pqma · Answer

The issue of the 3F RCD relates to the second smaller sub-distribution board in the basement.
There is more space there, and I can freely insert a 3F RCD instead of a Ski in a 3F socket on the wall that is never used (disconnect the socket).

The problem with the basement is that the pump and the thermo are without RCD (the installation was supposedly professional, but 15 years ago), and the manufacturers of both recommend and even condition the warranty on this. I will not add that, for example, when pouring water into the pump, it pees left and right, and the basement itself can be slightly damp etc. etc. ... As I wrote the power supply of the building is TN-C-S.

kkas12 · Answer

Zero input.
To start with, I would suggest PN HD 60364 4-41. It is concerned with electric shock protection.
Secondly, PN HD 60364 5-54, which is about equalisation connections.
Finally, sheet 7-701 concerning bathrooms.
In addition, studies by Dr. Musial.

Apart from the content of the mentioned sheets as well as the works of Dr. Musial, I would like to inform you that everything you are asking has been repeatedly and thoroughly discussed on this and other forums.
So I would very much like to ask my colleague to get rid of the claiming attitude and put a minimum of your own work into your topics.
This is because there is a point in the rules:
3.1.17. It is forbidden to publish posts which lower the general level of discussion, which are the result of laziness or which contain a demanding attitude.
on the edge of which a colleague nonstop balances.

Should the disconnector in the switchboard also disconnect the N line ?

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