Furrow in Ceiling: Large Slab Construction, Block Installations, Chandelier Wiring (OWT 67)

While the topic is more of a construction topic, it is also inextricably linked to block installations, so I hope I chose the right forum. I have read many times to forget about cutting grooves in the plate and I agree with it. I have a chandelier in my room (fastened with a double connector). There are three copper wires leading to the chandelier (although the rest of the installation is aluminum).

The conservator-electrician from the cooperative said that in this building (OWT 67, ground floor + 4 floors) wall lamps were provided, and this is a modification (a different type of wiring also indicates this). As far as I know, most of them have chandeliers, not wall lamps (I have not encountered the lack of a chandelier). It is possible that it was a massive alteration at the stage of handing over the building.

Another electrician (to do the installation for me) suggested that the wires could go to the neighbor above and on the other side of the tile in the floor.

I glanced at the wires and they looked like they were going "to the side", not up. With the help of a cutter, I removed about 3 cm of wires and they actually go under the plaster in some furrow. The word "picked out" fits better than "forged", because you can make a hole there practically without using a hammer. The ceiling there is soft, as if made of plaster, and is subject to light blows by the cutter itself.



The picture may not be too clear, but you can see that the wires under a centimeter layer of plaster run parallel to the ceiling towards the wall with the switch.

Do you think that if it goes so easily, I can safely break it off and replace these cables without the risk of damaging the building structure?

The fact that currently:
1) It is not possible to connect the ground to the chandelier (keeping the double switch, and in other rooms where there are only 2 wires, this is not possible at all)
2) There is no double insulation of the wires. I do not know if leaving it as it is will not allow me to take measurements from the cooperative after the renovation.

As a curiosity, I would like to add that the "experts" made the switches on "zero", so when I have the light off, I still have a phase on the bulb and it cannot be corrected on the switch - the connection is hidden somewhere in the wall.

Of course you can, the cable is in the plaster, so by tearing it out, you make a groove in the plaster and not in the plate, so you don't violate its structure.

I used to wash the wires at my father-in-law's
from the ceiling. I forged a piece and then
it was enough to pull harder. They went between the plates (conical groove).
In my case, the cans were under a layer of plaster.

marcintr wrote:

Another electrician (to do the installation for me) suggested that the wires could go to the neighbor above and on the other side of the tile in the floor.

And the neighbor is also renovating the floor above?
Or maybe panels, parquet or whatever - will you tear him off?

Quote:

Or maybe panels, parquet or whatever - will you tear him off?

@ zbich70 : Hah, no - I'd rather leave these wires as they are and look for a box in the wall to somehow connect to them from the mentioned circuit in the custom wall. At most, I would avoid metal chandeliers and conductors without grounding.

Quote:

They went between the plates (conical groove).

@ piotrek22101 It's not like that here. The joining of the boards is about a meter next to it (you can see the plaster crack along the entire joining line).

More than a centimeter of plaster is probably not there (I hope I'm wrong). I suppose someone cut the furrow earlier there. Since these several years have been all right, if I pick this plaster out of the furrow, maybe nothing will happen.

Edit: Photo from joining plates next to it (visible better when enlarged):

marcintr wrote:

Quote:

Or maybe panels, parquet or whatever - will you tear him off?

@ zbich70 : Hah, no - I'd rather leave these wires as they are and look for a box in the wall to somehow connect to them from the mentioned circuit in the custom wall. At most, I would avoid metal chandeliers and conductors without grounding.

Quote:

They went between the plates (conical groove).

@ piotrek22101 It's not like that here. The joining of the boards is about a meter next to it (you can see the plaster crack along the entire joining line).

More than a centimeter of plaster is probably not there (I hope I'm wrong). I suppose someone cut the furrow earlier. Since these several years have been all right, if I pick this plaster out of the furrow, maybe nothing will happen.

Don't worry about breaking the plaster, nothing will collapse ...
Since you wrote that the plaster falls off slightly, it would not hold the ceiling to you any more.

Rather, there will be no other option for laying the cable than making a groove in the ceiling. Sometimes you have a sip of luck and find a pairing, but I was not lucky.
Forging is torment.
Kątówka and you cut and forge a furrow and that's it. Optimally so as to hide the cable. I've always used rebar as handles You have to cope.

There are probably holes in the slab and they could be used, but they will be covered with mortar next to the wall.

Good luck

marcintr wrote:

It's not like that here. The joining of the boards is about a meter next to it (you can see the plaster crack along the entire joining line).

And do you think the plates are wider? You can expect various things in ceilings, various tiles, and the fact that there are cracks somewhere and they are not somewhere does not prove anything yet. For now, use the old groove, you are not risking anything.

zdzisiek1979 wrote:

Forging is torment.

Not so much a torment as a serious threat.

Drywall is sometimes useful for ceilings ...
Lowering the ceiling by a few centimeters has not killed anyone yet ...

There were round ducts in the large slab to reduce their weight, and it was often used by electricians of the time - especially in ceilings.

kot mirmur wrote:

There were round ducts in the large slab to reduce their weight, and it was often used by electricians of the time - especially in ceilings.

The so-called "gary". Holes in Żerań slabs or ackerman ceilings. Used by electricians during the construction of the block.

Under construction ...
And only construction works. Then it's not too much ...

kot mirmur wrote:

There were round ducts in the large slab to reduce their weight, and it was often used by electricians of the time - especially in ceilings.

These openings were not, for the sake of reducing weight, but for "drying" the slab with steam at the production stage - for cooling the concrete.
As a result, People's Poland was built faster in "house factories"

JAbłecznik wrote:

kot mirmur wrote:

There were round ducts in the large slab to reduce their weight, and it was often used by electricians of the time - especially in ceilings.

These openings were not, for the sake of reducing weight, but for "drying" the slab with steam at the production stage - for cooling the concrete.
As a result, People's Poland was built faster in "house factories"

Yes, they are for weight reduction, which does not mean that during production they were not used for faster drying.

Łukasz-O wrote:

JAbłecznik wrote:

kot mirmur wrote:

There were round ducts in the large slab to reduce their weight, and it was often used by electricians of the time - especially in ceilings.

These openings were not, for the sake of reducing weight, but for "drying" the slab with steam at the production stage - for cooling the concrete.
As a result, People's Poland was built faster in "house factories"

Yes, they are for weight reduction, which does not mean that during production they were not used for faster drying.

Scales above all, but not only. Openwork structures are stiffer than full ones, with similar strength. Had they been full better, nature would not have produced a hollow bird feather scape, and a blade of grass would also have been full, not tubular. And they would be heavy, which would encourage breaking, and the birds are not known if they would be able to stay in the air.

And I thought no one would write it - applause Mr. Fashion!

If you are already doing a renovation, it is worth replacing the wires with new ones in double insulation, so even if the old place of the wires does not come up, the new wire will not come in, you will make more and it will be ok. And so ap ropo, taking a break after zero probably does not comply with the current standards, so replacing the wires is probably necessary.

arkadio1973 wrote:

And so ap ropo, taking a break after zero probably does not comply with the current standards, so replacing the wires is probably necessary.

Yes "ap ropo" - and in a situation where the wires are already replaced, but the electrician made an assembly error and installed the connector in the N wire - also a colleague will recommend replacing the wiring again ???
It follows from the sentence above ...

Probably the electrician forgot to take the test tubes for the job [Colleagues, this is Hyde Park, or just trying to transfer the topic]

Quote:

Yes "ap ropo" - and in a situation where the wires are already replaced, but the electrician made an assembly error and installed the connector in the N wire - also a colleague will recommend replacing the wiring again ???
It follows from the sentence above ...

Of course, you are right in a situation where the electrician makes a mistake, it corrects your error and it's ok. I referred to the situation described in the first post. If I wrote it incomprehensible, I apologize. Regards