Seeking Recommendations for Comfortable, Durable Car for Long Journeys, Budget 30-50k

What car would you recommend with the following assumptions:
- comfortable (comfortable armchairs, well-soundproofed, rich equipment)
- soft suspension
- little failure, reasonable operating costs with high mileage
- moderate engine power, sufficient for smooth driving at highway speed. Nobody will race it. More emphasis on durability and economy.
As for the budget, you can assume 30-50 thousand. as used, but it is not a strict limitation.
I have no prejudices about the brand, country of production, etc.

Audi A8 used

c5 with diesel 2.0 engine - super comfort
lagoon- 2.0 diesel
mondeo

So rather, premium segment cars.

Skoda Octavia Tour II - you will be pleased

Volvo v70 or s80 2007-2008 2.4 D5

Hi Peugeot 607 2.0 hdi 136KM OR 3.0 LPG, for 50,000 you will also buy a Peugeot 508 2.0 hdi 163KM I have a machine that drives beautifully in the autoban, the speed from 140 to 180 km / h does not impress it, if you can stretch the budget a little (by itself) I'm at the stage of reflection) mercedes in 211 after lift 2.2 cdi they improved it terribly, but the price is a bit higher, you write that it is not stiff - maybe? Mercedes is back in the game in my opinion. espace 2.0 tz lpg, lagoon lpg or 2.0 cdi - maybe a coupe?

yes, fast ford s-max.

607 as above, and a bit more unusual, and good:
Vel satis with a 2.0T / 3.5 engine (probably the highest comfort / price ratio), Sonata IV / V, Grandeur, Chrysler Pacifica, Cadillac STS and here a surprise: Honda Odyssey 3.5 + VCM.
And so one could long ...

But C6 crushes everyone's tits ...
http://allegro.pl/osobowe-citroen-4033?string=c6&bmatch=base-relevance-aut-1-5-0408&order=m

C6 has a significant drawback for the average questioner on this forum - it is not German.

Like the Lexus GS and LS.

wichurewicz wrote:

C6 has a significant drawback for the average questioner on this forum - it is not German.
Like the Lexus GS and LS.

Hello
Not true, a colleague asking for feedback clearly wrote:

piotrd76 wrote:

... I have no prejudices about the brand, country of production, etc.

You can pay attention to the Alfa 159 with a 150KM or 210KM diesel engine.

wichurewicz wrote:

C6 has a significant drawback for the average questioner on this forum - it is not German.

I am currently driving the C5 and I am very happy with it. And I started the thread because I was wondering whether to buy another one (it would be my fourth "French" in a row) or maybe try something new this time.

I recommend depending on the preferences; kia sportage 2010

VW Sharan, Seat Alhambra, Ford Galaxy. 7 seats, any configuration of seats, rich equipment, a large range of engines to choose from.

Omega C combi 2.0 or 2.2 petrol plus gas
C5 station wagon petrol 2.0 gas or without
Mondeo mk 3 gasoline minimum 2.0 plus gas sequence

Well-equipped and quiet cars, I especially recommend the Omega C, unless you are skinny, the seats will be a bit too big.
The C5 has narrower seats and a bit worse equipment, but in my opinion you will hit better.
Mondeo is huge and often wavy.
I advise against diesels with an annual mileage of 50 thousand.

search for c5 II and you will be satisfied.

I will suggest a Lexus is220d or 250, I will add that the 220d had problems with the head gasket and carbon deposits. Perhaps years after 2008 have been corrected.

As for the volume of the car, I have the impression that the producers try to hide this parameter. If they already say the volume at 90/100 km / h. On the other hand, a silent car at 100 km / h can get very noisy at 140 km / h.

In the link there is a list of dozens of brands and models with the given volume at different speeds.

Volume table

I used to have an Audi B4 that was great. Later other cars but none to compare.
I suggest the A4 station wagon or A6. best regards

If you drive the C5 and are looking for comfort, you will probably not find much more at this price, certainly not in the Audi A4. Of course, the C5 with Hydroactive suspension. This car can be considered a standard of comfort.

the sharan galaxy above 120-130 km / h is not pleasantly loud, and the comfort on the seats on long routes was the reason for the sale, the alfa 159 jtd super car has worked for me in terms of faults - no, but if someone is over 180 cm I do not recommend due to the tightness overhead, combustion (sparingly)! about 7 lw 1.9 jtd 120KM, it could be smaller 607 hdi, she did it without a problem. Opel insignia 2.0 cdti only not 160KM, engine not successful.

Lexus IS .. not for comfort. If you put comfort and ergonomics in the first place, you should have French cars such as Citroen C5 / C6 or a Peugeot. Suvami are also pleasant to travel. For example, I don't like it when it is almost on the ground in a car. It's cool in the city, but I wouldn't be able to do that in a longer tour If you want to spend 25-30k, look for 607 from newer years - a nice car in diesel, large, comfortable and obligatory in a machine. Unfortunately, something for something .. French cars, despite their beautiful suspension and comfort, have problems with electronics and may not appeal to everyone.

Maybe a BMW E60? 2.0d is ok for longer routes and the car is quite reliable, only in this money I would aim for models from the higher price range given by you.

kakibara wrote:

the sharan galaxy above 120-130 km / h is not pleasantly loud, and the comfort on the seats on long routes was the reason for the sale, the alfa 159 jtd super car has worked for me in terms of faults - no, but if someone is over 180 cm I do not recommend due to the tightness overhead, combustion (sparingly)! about 7 lw 1.9 jtd 120KM, it could be smaller 607 hdi, she did it without a problem. Opel insignia 2.0 cdti only not 160KM, engine not successful.

Insignia as already (and not insignia) and what is unsuccessful in the CDTI 160KM and is in, for example, the CDTI 110 or 130? I am already curious, because you are becoming a great specialist, I can see.

Do you know what matters most on the road, apart from the convenience? Reliability.
And here you recommend inventions like Vel Satis or 607. The first failure abroad and you double its value !!
Besides, I do not choose to buy such corpses with 35,000 zlotys at my disposal.

The C5 with 2.0 HDI can be quite an interesting choice due to its low prices and fresh vintages. I wouldn't necessarily be passionate about hydractive suspension. The problem may be only to buy a sensible copy, but this applies to all cars. Mileage is important in my opinion, the accident issue is a secondary issue if done right.

The Lexus IS is quite a tight car, but of course cool. But what engine? Isn't that the 2.2 D4D from Toyota?

I have an E60 after a lifts, and it's quite an expensive car to maintain. I just got a copy with which there are no problems, but with friends it can be different (they all have 3.0d considered better than 2.0d). You need good technical culture and a good wallet here so as not to regret on repairs. However, it seems to me that 35k is not a budget for a good e60, you would have to add some extra. The fact of the car is great on the road and the driving style is completely different than everything else.

On the other hand, a failure in a BMW never happens and does not double its value, because it is already expensive ...
The point is that I will find a neat and not damaged French car (or other "invention") in this budget twice faster than a German car. Somehow most of the car mechanics I know do not drive either Bavaria, or OOOO, or a star. Maja 407, Cromy, Mondeo, Toyota. Instead, they laugh at the owners of "decent" brands in mind: pay and cry because you wanted to show yourself. This is the reality. A German well-kept car is usually 30-100% more expensive than other brands, but this is not always justified in practice.
Haven't you thought that not everyone can afford an expensive brand? And that you can drive just as luxuriously with less money?
I wonder how these poor French people drive their scrap cars, after all, it keeps breaking down, and yet they don't just buy German ones.
I recently bought a great car of a large crossover class, from overseas, not beaten with a mileage of 120,000 km for money and a year of average, bare and poorly soundproofed S-Max, or a few years old tight Audi A4 or other Passerati. For example, a crumbly X3 (which is much smaller and prowaszi a little better than a beetle) I would have to pay extra 15,000, and for x5 twice as much ???
When giving vel satis, I suggested 2.0T or Nissan 3.5 engines with an indication of 2.0T. I didn't mention anything about the emergency dci.
When we talk about comfortable cars, it comes to mind, among others. middle class, but better upper middle. For one, the A4 will be luxury, and the A8 for another, depending on what you've driven before.
And in this class, if you want to eat oats, you don't buy a horse.
I will also add Toyota Camry, Nissan Maxima, Lexus RX to the list, but not IS.

Mr. Kune - because you can see otherwise, you can not talk to you and have your opinion, because you have your opinion and you should agree with it, or what, as in your other suggestions, you should recommend 1.8 t and gas it, I think it fits audi a4 or a6 what do you think? - other colleagues have been recommending their brands for years and do I or other colleagues constantly criticize them? You are a specialist, with the E60 what is so expensive in it that others cannot afford servicing and repairs? A car for just a few thousand euros? In your opinion, every car, let's say French, is scrap - the 607 may be in better condition from 2004 than from 2009, with a 2.2hdi engine. And what does that prove?
607 abroad for repair - hm do you think that the engine or gearbox will always be more expensive to repair in a foreign workshop? I am not writing the website on purpose - you are wrong.
Besides, if you have time, sit and read, because I will not sit and write to you why the Opel Instygni cdti 160 KM engine is more defective than 110 or 130 KM, after all you know everything and you know perfectly well that 160 KM is the hardest to get engine at auctions in Poland or abroad in our country - is the most sought-after - I wonder why? Most of the ones I brought on the tow truck also had a damaged engine.
If you already recommend quite nice cars like Lexus, maybe better Opel Astra after lift inside a little smaller than the Insignia, and the board is the same in appearance, and 130 KM repels it quite nicely, certainly better than 110KM, which I had but not too long.
PS tomeks no offense with lexus - cool cars.

It's rather hard to double, because the 2005 BMW costs 35k, and 607 8kpln. So after a few years of use, there is a chance that we will get something else for this car, which with Vel Stais or 607 is unrealistic. Unfortunately, this is how the European market values these super luxury cars. The situation is similar with A8 / S-Class / 7er class cars - they also cost pennies, because their purchase has no economic justification.

And who are the mechanics? This is some kind of higher deity? Any determinant? Most mechanics are nothing special, they don't know much about cars, just because they can fix them doesn't mean they know more about them. Most of this wisdom can be put between fairy tales, and cars have what they can afford. Where are they driving these cars? To "work" and go fishing? This is no determinant, because of my industry, I know a lot of mechanics and it has no real reference to it. They load themselves on crash mines, so their laughter is often an expression of frustration. It's like with food, one buys a ham for PLN 15 / kg, another one for PLN 100 / kg - the one who buys cheaper also says that there is no difference.

I didn't think someone couldn't afford a brand. Do you know what luxury means? There is no the same luxury for less money, because then it is not LUXURY! How can you talk about luxury for PLN 40,000?

If you wonder how the poor French drive their poor cars, go to France and see. Go outside the border of a small town and check it out. See what these great French carts look like in their country - I will give you a hint, 3-year-old cars look like post-war, damaged, exhausted. They are treated like anything else, an object. They travel for a few years and go for new ones. It's an ordinary thing. They don't buy German? You're kidding, I suggest less internet, more sightseeing.
THIS IS HERE IN POLAND, a car is a cult, a sacred thing. If you want an Astra, go and buy Astra, but do not convince everyone that it is the best car in the world and BMW, although it costs 4x as much, is the same or worse. Don't hit that stupid thing.

What is a big crossover? Because crossover is a promoted term for a Clio in a higher suspension. Then there are the little suvs like the Q5. It's great that you are resourceful, I don't even know what kind of car it is, so with your suggestions I would not even want to consider this purchase. It is such hating on others: I have no money, so I can't afford better / more expensive stuff, it doesn't make sense, it's stupid, it's not worth it.

Just because I can't buy the Veyron, I'm not saying it's a car sucks. More distance, can you like to drive a BMW AUDI or MERCEDES here or do you have to be a Polish dodger and buy 607 for PLN 8,000 because you have what someone in A6 for 50k from the same year? Sad.

Point of view depends on the point of sitting. If someone goes and buys the first E60 for 30,000, after half a year he will make a turbine, dual mass and half of his electronics will fall apart. The second one will analyze the market, find something in Germany (because let's face it, it's best to buy a car there, just the fact that Germans value their cars), will spend 40,000 and will only do kilometers In a few years, he will sell for 20,000 and buy another car. Everything is fine in the French car, but I doubt it will be the same, and when the time comes to sell it, it will go for 5,000. Let it not be that I base my opinion on nothing, I will give a small example - on a daily basis I drive a BMW E53 from 2005 with a mileage of 300,000 and I have an Outlander in my family that I bought at the showroom in 2010. Many people would say that Mitsubishi is ok and BMW with this course is only suitable for scrap. However, it is different - BMW drives a hundred times better, it is more comfortable, more capacious and the operating costs are not that high. It is possible that in the case of French cars it is a bit different, but from my perspective I am giving here a small comparison of a car that cost 300,000 new in the showroom, and now is worth 35, and the second one, which cost 100,000 and is now also worth similar money. In my opinion, the difference in the price / year of premium cars and cars of lower classes is justified and there is no need to compare brands such as Opel and Citroen to Audi or BMW in such matters. But that's just my private opinion ..

607 2.0 Hdi - Certainly it does not cost 8,000 in the desired condition for trips abroad, for 8 - wheels, maybe he will buy a pseudo mechanic somewhere from a barn with an interface to VAG to check the EPROM content - haha. Of course, from your neighborhood, because how can you offend other mechanics, car fans.
In France I have been maybe more times like you, and the fact that they do not draw a manual so that the other driver under the block can make a place - this is no America, because if you compare someone who does not give a shit about changing the oil, or something knocks on them, that they smoke them Twisted pair instead of cigarettes, he opens the window and burns the seal, and he goes with a full ashtray, paint poured in the trunk and a dirty couch after a dog or a cat - to a normal person who drives a car every day from point A to point B - I don't see any comparison or sense further discussion.
Going further with your thinking that the proverbial European buys a car every 3 years is not a lot of truth, because a non-burdensome loan for a European to buy a new car is around 20,000 Euro NP for a car. FOCUS, with a bonus for returning an old car (minus EUR 1500 to ...) and their bonuses (where everyone is waiting for them - if they think about changing the car), starting from 300-400 EUR / month, and other mortgage loans, university, because you know that "ekole" - primary school is free and the state gives everything, so even with an average salary it is not so easy to pay taxes and buy a car, as we think here in Poland.
Rent from 700euro (no, no, no luxury, because you would pay a lot more for it, I'm not saying that in Paris itself, because Versailles is probably out of the question - where so many visitors every year, you would be tired),
eating 400 euro minimum,
tv from Poland, internet, some 100 euro prepaid phone, you have over 1000 euro
electricity, water, gas - for heating, well, not for a gas stove, it's dangerous! And where to go away from the computer and visit something? Where else does the French have to pay a minimum installment of EUR 300 for a new car - you ask why the installment do not know - WHAT YOU? Who would buy a car with cash - if the interest rate is only about 2%. and will give back after 5 years, maybe 500 or 700 euros more - do not believe? Read on, drive to France and ask your family friends again.
Nobody offers Astra to anyone - they wrote (my suggestions) in the first post, answer your nice written word about luxury for PLN 40,000?
If you are so enlightened and resourceful, write to the author what you would see him in, that the car will travel thousands of km and will visit all of Europe and a part of Asia, and the flap will not fall into the collector. We are waiting eagerly.


It's like with food, one buys a ham for PLN 15 / kg, another one for PLN 100 / kg - the one who buys cheaper also says that there is no difference.

....
PS move - or / and contribute to the nutrition forum (with my mother) you could compete what and where to buy good and for how much, what to harvest, what to breed, what to combine with and, with what not, good vitamins.

Author, choose some suggestions for what you would like to see, do not even post a new thread on the forum of the selected brand that you like and spend a few nights, get acquainted with the faults of a given model, it will probably be more helpful.

A lot of our (Poles) from England - drives and praises the Honda Accord station wagon for packing and low fuel consumption - 2.2 cdti - about the faults of the forum and of course my friend Kune will tell you something, I finished speaking and I apologize.

Smule wrote:

and there is no need to compare brands like Opel and Citroen to Audi or BMW in such matters.

Do you generalize brands, here are models that count: would you prefer a Citroen C6 or an Audi A2 ???
As for the approach to the car, it was about a comfortable car, and you can have luxury (from 15 years ago) for 40,000 and luxury in a 3-year-old car, if you like.
As for mechanics, I would like to write that of those I know, most buy nice and well-kept cars from their customers, which they repaired for their money. And they don't have to check them because they've already seen them from every perspective.
And they do not tear at the E60, because it is one of the more (minor-fault) cars in its class, which does not mean that these faults are cheap, as you wrote yourself. You have to earn in German, which is 4x more, so that the owner does not feel it too much.
@Kune This something you finally recommended to the author of the thread, or did you just criticize the suggestions of others? Because it comes out that you do not recommend the E60 at the end?
For 40,000 of my proposals, you can buy 4-6-year-old cars from the upper price range of the 2010-12 year with a much more likely mileage, from the first owner, or e.g. a 10-year E60 with the same criteria. And what looks like a bigger strudel here as you write? For them, the choice is obvious.
Most of the time, the mechanism of the snowball and sheep's rush works here, because since most have and praise German cars, their price increases without regard to the actual quality. And that's why I always avoid brands for which I would have to pay 50% for a stamp, the same for parts later. This is my task and I have the right to say it.
As for the large crossover, I have a pacific, a car larger than the hideous X6, not a Clio.
The car was not without its flaws, but cold, it was the best choice in relation to quality and price in this class of cars. From German cars it is comparable to the R-class (the same floor plate), but 10 thousand more expensive in the same yearbook with a croaking diesel under the hood and an unacceptable exterior and interior appearance for me, but with better finishing materials.

kakibara wrote:

I have been to France maybe more times than you ...

Don't be sorry, with your calculations you should become the Minister of Economics. I understand you've looked into everyone's pockets and figured out your income and expenses. One will survive for EUR 500, the other will not be enough EUR 10,000. So what's the talk about?

andrzej lukaszewicz wrote:

Smule wrote:

and there is no need to compare brands like Opel and Citroen to Audi or BMW in such matters.

Do you generalize brands, here are models that count: would you prefer a Citroen C6 or an Audi A2 ???
As for the approach to the car, it was about a comfortable car, and you can have luxury (from 15 years ago) for 40,000 and luxury in a 3-year-old car, if you like.
As for mechanics, I would like to write that of those I know, most buy nice and well-kept cars from their customers, which they repaired for their money. And they don't have to check them because they've already seen them from every perspective.
And they do not tear at the E60, because it is one of the more (minor-fault) cars in its class, which does not mean that these faults are cheap, as you wrote yourself. You have to earn in German, which is 4x more, so that the owner does not feel it too much.
@Kune This something you finally recommended to the author of the thread, or did you just criticize the suggestions of others? Because it comes out that you do not recommend the E60 at the end? ...

The E60 can be recommended if someone has a repair budget and does not buy this car for the last money. A decent service and maintaining this car in good condition costs money. BMW offers a lot and is great to drive, but also requires a lot from the owner. If for someone PLN 250 for blocks is a lot, or PLN 700 for discs, he should give it up. This engine (2.0d) includes more than 7 liters of 5w30 oil, the air filter costs PLN 180 - and where is the labor? Anyway, go to sklep.intercars.com.pl and you can watch.
In addition, the E60 has an aluminum front (as well as floorboards), so repair after an accident of this car requires professionalism, expensive parts favor wiring by traders. So I recommend it to someone as a good wallet.

Personally, with this budget I would look at:
C5 2.0HDI - due to a good engine, low prices of relatively fresh cars and good travel comfort.

Volvo S60 - Comfort comparable to BMW and Audi, but I think it's easier to find a good copy. The maintenance costs should be quoted by someone who has had and is using it.

P508 - quite a tough car, but you can also buy a fairly young car (2010+) for the money, although as some buyers will find out, it's hard to get a low mileage and a nice car. Watch out for cars from France that have no history on the site, there are a lot of taxis with cosmic mileage - this also applies to the C5.

Laguna II 2.0 DCI

Seat Exeo 2.0 TDI - it's a bit controversial car, on the one hand a modern CR engine and 90% Audi A4 B7, but it is also a disadvantage - the A4 B7 is based on the B6, and thus it is a car that technically remembers the beginning of the 2000s.

Audi A4 B7 1.9 TDI - it's quite a poor car on the road, although it is already driving on the chip, unfortunately often found with a 5-speed gearbox. The budget allows you to buy a copy with low mileage and a certain past, if we consider the expensive front suspension, the car should repay failure-free. The 115 horse engine was not offered in other VAG cars of those years. For 60kkm, I had no problem with this car.

The Passat should also be a good car, in this money, but the budget for the B7 was too modest, and even the B6 at the end of production did not have an engine that could be recommended 100%. Sure, you can buy a 2.0TDI and immunize it properly, but that's not the point.

In my opinion, the key to success is low mileage. It is mostly a guarantee of smooth and long operation.

andrzej lukaszewicz wrote:

As for the big crossover, I have a pacific

See, for me this car is a mine, I always wondered who was buying such inventions. I wouldn't recommend the Chrystler or the Mercedes R to anyone. I'd already be more inclined to buy the Grand Espace. Recently, my friend had this car for a long time, because the owner did not know how to buy a front differential (4x4) for this car in normal money and pulled it from the US. These are cars for enthusiasts who like such things, they will rummage around, look for and enjoy it. For normal people, this is an ordinary face, where, lured by the low price, they will be killed by maintenance costs and problems in the service.