One Circuit with 4 Room Lights & Bathroom Socket: Electrician's Work, 1.5 mm Copper Wire, B10 ESM

Hello and welcome,

I have this problem to solve:
An electrician on one perimeter made me lights in four rooms (bathroom and room, living room and hall) and one socket in the bathroom. The socket in the bathroom is to be used to connect a hair dryer and a charger to the electric toothbrush. The whole is pulled with a 1.5 mm copper wire. Secured with "ESM" B10.

My question:
Does such a solution exist? Will it not be me constantly blasting this "esa"?

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

ktasior wrote:

Does such a solution exist?

Not. It is forbidden by law.

Who is this electrician?
A socket in the bathroom connected with a 1.5mm? cable and one more circuit with the light?

kozi966 wrote:

ktasior wrote:

Does such a solution exist?

Not. It is forbidden by law.

I see. In this arrangement, I have two solutions.
- I have a separate circuit for the washing machine - a 2.5 mm copper wire - can I lead the power to this bathroom socket from it?
- I can run a completely new circuit to this socket with a 2.5 mm cable to the switchgear and put it on "es" B10, but "es" is in front of the differential

Which is better?

Added after 5 [minutes]:

Krzychu7 wrote:

Who is this electrician?
A socket in the bathroom connected with a 1.5mm? cable and one more circuit with the light?

In two rooms, he led all sockets with a 1.5 mm cable. This is also not correct? A total of 9 slots.

Lighting in the bathroom should also be "behind the difference"!

ktaSIOR wrote:

In two rooms, he led all sockets with a 1.5 mm cable. This is also not correct? A total of 9 slots.

Of course, these sockets are "behind the differential" and protected with a circuit breaker ? 13 A?

Lighting in the bathroom must be protected with an RCD.

Provide a picture of the switchboard, it can fit RCBO B10 to the light. If the washing machine socket is in the bathroom, you can connect that to the circuit. Otherwise, you are pulling a new circuit from the switchboard.

elpapiotr wrote:

Of course, these sockets are "behind the differential" and protected with a circuit breaker ? 13 A?

Switch B16, but "before the differential"

And why this installation was made so sparingly, a colleague did not accidentally cut costs by force?

Krzychu7 wrote:

The socket is connected with a 1.5mm? cable

What is it if the protection is 10A Another problem is its location, something else, if there were RCBO B10A, it can be in the bathroom.

ktasior wrote:

Switch B16, but "before the differential"

It can not be.

mawerix123 wrote:

Krzychu7 wrote:

The socket is connected with a 1.5mm? cable

What is it if the protection is 10A Another problem is its location, something else, if there were RCBO B10A, it can be in the bathroom.

Basically nothing, just that the socket circuit is mixed up with the lighting and without the RCD / RCBO. Not to mention that we are writing about the bathroom.
Is it not enough?

Łukasz-O wrote:

Basically nothing, just that the socket circuit is mixed up with the lighting and without the RCD / RCBO

I am writing about a specific answer of one of my colleagues who does not allow the installation of the socket with a 1.5mm2 cable in any case. Of course, the installation in the condition described by the author is incorrect, the socket must be separated and led to the switchboard.

Photo of the switchboard in the attachment, from the left:
B10 - light in one room
B10 - lights in four rooms and a socket in the bathroom
B20 - 9 sockets on a 1.5 mm cable
B20 - 2 sockets + cable for the hood
B20 - empty
Differential
B20 - circumference to the washing machine 2.5 mm
B20 - dishwasher
C20 - induction hob 3 kw
C20 - 4 slots

kosmos99 wrote:

And why this installation was made so sparingly, a colleague did not accidentally cut costs by force?

I gave the electrician a free hand to buy what he needed. I drew him how it should look like, but I did not decide on the thickness of the wires, the number of circuits, etc., I just wanted a separate dishwasher, hob and washing machine.

And he starched the trash. Not even a comb.
I omit the values of security B and C with a value of 20 A. Kichaa all over.
I wonder what our pre-meter protection is.

elpapiotr wrote:

I wonder what our pre-meter protection is.

25A fuse

Return this gold purchase of yours to the store.

opornik7 wrote:

Return this gold purchase of yours to the store.

Fuse?

ktasior wrote:

Photo of the switchboard in the attachment, from the left:
B10 - light in one room
B10 - lights in four rooms and a socket in the bathroom
B20 - 9 sockets on a 1.5 mm cable
B20 - 2 sockets + cable for the hood
B20 - empty
Differential
B20 - circumference to the washing machine 2.5 mm
B20 - dishwasher
C20 - induction hob 3 kw
C20 - 4 slots

https://static.elektroda.pl/attach/2016-11-10_21_02_24_2021586.jpg

I love such small pseudo switchgears, you will not press your finger on expansion or speech

ktasior wrote:

Fuse?

Sorry, I fell victim to several open windows. My answer was on a different topic. Sorry for the confusion.

ktasior wrote:

Photo of the switchboard in the attachment,

Now call this bastard, let him take home the fruit of his stupidity and let him pay you compensation in accordance with the provisions in the contract

C20 at home? Security features probably selected randomly. B20 - protects the 1.5 mm2 wire, cramps errors and errors. Full-packed switchgear, where can there be a reserve?

To sum up:
- I have to remove the socket from the circuit with the light and lead a new 2.5 mm circuit so that it is covered by the differential and secure it with B16?
- throw out the freshly laid 1.5 mm wires to these 9 sockets and lead the 2.5 mm and secure the B16 and also has a differential to cover it?
- leave only the lighting in front of the differential?

Added after 2 [minutes]:

kozi966 wrote:

Not. It is forbidden by law.

Could you please give us the exact recipe? Because I have to point it out to the electrician. Thank you in advance.

Ideally, you should put in a larger switchgear so that there is room for expansion. Overall, a rough job to get it out on people, rather than a topic on the forum. Typically 16A protection is used for 2.5 mm2 wires, up to 1.5 mm2 10A.

ktasior wrote:

- I have to remove the socket from the circuit with the light and lead a new 2.5 mm circuit so that it is covered by the differential and secure it with B16?

- yes, but as colleagues wrote, bathroom lighting is mandatory with the RCD.

ktasior wrote:

- throw out the freshly laid 1.5 mm wires to these 9 sockets and lead the 2.5 mm and secure the B16 and also has a differential to cover it?

- yes, unless you want a B10 protection for the sockets.

ktasior wrote:

- leave only the lighting in front of the differential?

- you can, but outside the bathroom, see above.

ktasior wrote:

Could you please give us the exact recipe? Because I have to point it out to the electrician. Thank you in advance.

Link

§ 188. 1. Electrical installation receiving circuits in a multi-family building should be run within each area
flat or business premises.
2. In the electrical installation in the apartment, separate circuits should be used: lighting, plug sockets
general purpose socket outlets in the bathroom, socket outlets for appliances in the kitchen and
circuits for receivers requiring individual protection.

This is just one more question: Is there any provision that 2.5 mm cables should be led to the sockets?

ktasior wrote:

This is just one more question: Is there any provision that 2.5 mm cables should be led to the sockets?

There isn't.

ktasior wrote:

To sum up:

In conclusion, let the electrician take what he wears and give the money back. What he carved cries out to heaven for vengeance. I don't even ask why he didn't apply the RCD to other circuits.
In fact, most installations have to be made from scratch, use another larger switchgear, which will be equipped with appropriate overcurrent circuit breakers, RCD, main switch. Voltage signaling is also a good solution.

As for the circuits:
1. Lighting 3 and 4x1,5mm2 eg RCBO - B10;
2. Working sockets in the kitchen 3x2.5mm? - B16;
3. dishwasher socket 3x2.5mm? - B16;
4. oven socket 3x2.5mm? - B16;
5. Circuit of the induction hob 5x2.5mm? (on the side) - B16;
6. Washing machine socket 3x2.5mm? - B16;
7. bathroom socket (if the washing machine is located in a different room) 3x2.5mm? - B16;
8. Sockets in rooms (max 10 sockets per circuit) 3x2.5mm? - B16.

It is worth to separate the circuits of general sockets into rooms, e.g. living room and bedroom separately.
I also remind you that the socket circuits must also be protected by an RCD. Lighting in the bathroom also with RCD or RCBO.

Here is an example of an apartment switchboard:

ktasior wrote:

This is just one more question: Is there any provision that 2.5 mm cables should be led to the sockets?

There is no, but on the condition that the circuit is secured to max B13, which in practice means little functionality. A stupid start-up of the vacuum cleaner may trigger the security, and yet other devices will be connected in the circuit.

ktasior wrote:

Could you please give us the exact recipe?

Regulation of the Minister of Infrastructure on technical conditions to be met by buildings and their location
of April 12, 2002 (Journal of Laws No. 75, item 690)

§ 188.
2. In the electrical installation in the apartment, separate circuits should be used: lighting, general-purpose plug-in sockets, plug-in sockets in the bathroom, plug-in sockets for kitchen appliances and circuits for receivers requiring individual protection.

It's a pity the question asked after the installation is complete, not before.
I wonder if this performance is due to the electrician's ignorance or the need to obtain this order.

Thank you very much for all your help. I already know what I have to do, unfortunately, dismantle the whole freshly installed installation and make it from scratch.

As for the electrician. He had no restrictions on purchases. In addition, he canceled 70% more than what we agreed on. Already on the first day after firing the new installation, the pre-meter protection broke down (interestingly, the differential and esy did not crash, but were still in the on position). On the second day, the same thing again. On the third day, there was no lighting in 3/4 of the apartment and when I checked the letters, sparks went all over the switchboard. That is why I started to explore the topic and look for answers to whether its installation is surely properly done. Unfortunately, I do not know anything about it, and by hiring a "specialist" to do it, I believe that he is doing his job correctly. Unfortunately, I did not write any contract with him and now I do not really have much to claim compensation.

ktasior wrote:

Unfortunately, I do not know anything about it, and by hiring a "specialist" to do it, I believe that he is doing his job correctly.

References, exemplary performance (photos) and the contract are the basis.
You can hit anyone.