Home Electrical Wiring: Fuse Types, Room Circuits, Combining & Separating, RCCB Protection

Hello,

I am just finishing the replacement of the electrical wiring in my apartment and therefore I have questions. So far, each room has a separate circuit, i.e.

Big room:
ob1 2 sockets
ob2 2 sockets
ob3 2 chandeliers

Small room
ob4 3 sockets
ob5 1 chandelier

Kitchen
ob6 5 sockets
ob7 lighting 230 to 12v (halogen lamps for 12v - about 8-10 pcs)

Toilet
ob8 lighting 230 to 12v (halogen lamps for 12v - about 3-4 pieces)

Bathroom
ob8 lighting 230 to 12v (halogen lamps for 12v - about 5-6 pcs) - the same circuit as the toilet
ob9 2 sockets

Hall
ob10 1 socket

Such cables go to the future fuse box. I plan to combine ob1 with ob2 as ob12. He plans to protect the circuit of the bathroom sockets with a residual current circuit breaker. I want to give 1 or 2 main fuses for all lighting and all sockets.

I am asking for advice on how to do it properly. Which circuits are better to connect together and which ones should be left separately? What fuses to give?

Then you worked hard, so many circuits.
You did not provide a few details, namely:
- new installation - or renovation of the old one
- network type
- what kind of power supply after the meter 3-phase - 1-phase
- some kind of pre-meter protection
-e.t.c

I have a question. Are you a qualified electrician. I guess not, probably not. I am asking because electrical wiring at home is no fun. The voltage in such an installation is dangerous. I recommend that you ask a qualified person for help. This is why someone learns it for some time, and then use this knowledge to build installations in accordance with safety standards. greetings

- new installation - or renovation of the old one

Hmmmm halfway Namely, the old one was disconnected and new cables were led in its place.

- network type

Ie?

- what kind of power supply after the meter 3-phase - 1-phase

Probably one phase. Currently, there are two old-type plugs in the meter (such with a "pin"), and either I will stick in them or I will call on specialists from Energa to replace the meter with a new box.

- some kind of pre-meter protection

I have no idea. How to check ? It is a "large slab" building, all former aluminum installation, maybe it will help ...

Added after 2 [minutes]:

krzyjak wrote:

I have a question. Are you a qualified electrician. I guess not, probably not. I am asking because electrical wiring at home is no fun. The voltage in such an installation is dangerous. I recommend that you ask a qualified person for help. This is why someone learns it for some time, and then use this knowledge to build installations in accordance with safety standards. greetings

Not an electrician. I am an electronics technician. I know the basics of installation issues, but I am not a "specialist".

Hope you all have 3 wires. Then you should apply the exclusion. residual current 30mA to the entire installation and then break it into individual S type circuit breakers.

Of course, all cables are 3-wire. Isn't it better to protect the bathroom itself with a differential? And the rest for regular Ss (including the main one)?

We know something, but unfortunately not much.
You certainly cannot use fuses of a greater value than they were, because you do not know the pre-meter protection.
As for the connection of circuits, the sockets should certainly be divided into 2 - 3 circuits.
However, as a rule, the sockets in the bathroom should be protected separately, also the sockets in the kitchen with another fuse (due to the connection of power-hungry devices).
Hope you used the correct wire sizes.
Lighting freely, paying attention to the kitchen (a large number of halogens - their power is unknown)
And that's it initially in this topic.
Unfortunately, a few technical (electrical) threads remain unexplained.
That's why, as you wrote yourself, it will probably not be possible without contact with Energa.

Hello!
I don't know if it will help you but:
standard
- light circuits overcurrent protection B10
- B16 socket circuit
a little nonsense that in a large room there are two socket circuits, I would give 2 circuits in the kitchen. In rooms such as living rooms without any receivers of more power, you can boldly put 10 sockets on the circuit.
I suspect that the TN-C installation is coming to your apartment and you will switch to TN-CS (in your case 3 wires) in the apartment itself, if so, do not forget to ground the place of the separation.
If you have any doubts, ask
greetings
PS Sockets, cross-section 2.5mm2, oxidation 1.5mm2

Once again, I urge you to use the "differential" for the entire installation. Safety first and foremost.
The point of distribution of PEN to PE and N does not require earthing. You should also apply equipotential bonding, this is also safety (and requirement)

I wrote this post about safety because I am opposed to doing electrical installations on my own. If some time (of course I do not wish it) an accident happens with this installation, they will chase you for it because you did it on your own
installations. And a mistake is not difficult.

Quote:

The point of splitting PEN into PE and N does not require earthing

The separation point must be absolutely earthed for safety reasons

tygrys_michal wrote:

Quote:

The point of splitting PEN into PE and N does not require earthing

The separation point must be absolutely earthed for safety reasons

Nonsense buddy -read the standard 60364. The point can be grounded, but where will you get the grounding in the apartment. The separation point for the entire installation in the cable joint is grounded. There is no obligation in consumer installations.

Hello
Too many circuits, you get confused about everything. If you have someone you know who was building up, ask for an electrical installation project and follow it.

Quote:

Nonsense buddy-read the standard 60364. The point can be grounded, but where will you get the grounding in the apartment. The separation point for the entire installation in the cable joint is grounded. There is no obligation in consumer installations.

Well, you answered yourself whether you need to ground or not!
A colleague to write clearly that previously there were aluminum wires and that it is an old block, hence there is no separation in the connectors, only the TN-C network comes to the apartment itself and here is just a chapter.
greetings

Michał, look at the drawings of network circuits and draw conclusions.
Pay attention to TN-CS. Is the split point grounded?

Quote:

Michał, look at the drawings of network circuits and draw conclusions.
Pay attention to TN-CS. Is the split point grounded?

Of course there is!
I propose to look at the previously mentioned standard.
I know that this should not happen, but if the chapter point is not grounded, in the event of damage (interruption) of the PEN conductor on the enclosures of the devices to which the protective conductor is connected, a certain network voltage will appear
greetings

The grounded separation point occurs in the TN-S network. Just . Ende.

I wanted to end this pointless discussion but I couldn't help it

Quote:

The grounded separation point occurs in the TN-S network. Just. Ende.

what the hell chapter point in the TN-S network !!!!!! what's up here ???? 5 wires for 5 wires ??
The point of separation is in the TN-CS network and that's what we're talking about here!

Wiewiorka, you are wrong in the TN_S network, there is no such thing as a partition point, transparent diagrams, in tn-s there are 5 cables already from the transformer station.


They go back to the topic, I propose yes

1 + 4 on fuse B16
2 + 10 on B16
6 on B16
9 on B16

lighting

3 + 8 on B10
5 + 7 on B10

one RCD is not enough to propose, at least 2 or 3.
Compulsory compensatory connections
And as for the fuse in front of the meter, put a new one (Eske), resulting from the power allocation in such a housing, that you will turn it on when it pops out (almost every plastic switchboard has hooks for sealing)

Dear gentlemen
Maybe you are good at electronics, but you are weak at electricity.
The energy transmission from the transformer station to the cable connectors is always in TN-C. The TN-S network is created in the cable joint of the facility / building (I wrote about it) and here it is required to ground the separation point.
If there is a TN-C network in the building, and in the apartment we split the PEN into PE and N, we are dealing with the TN-CS network, and the separation point does not need to be grounded (but we can, but as I mentioned earlier, we do not have grounding in the apartment).
You are right, Michał: interruption of the PE conductor in the protected circuit, off. residual current device is unacceptable and is a hazard.

Personally, I am in favor of the renovation of the installation by a qualified electrician. And tips like:
"As for the pre-meter protection, buy fuses with a degree larger than they are, and preferably delayed ones, change the wires and assemble them by covering them with sand. Energa will seal it, and you will have no problems with selectivity of their operation - in other words, the protection will never break you pre-meter, only behind the meter. "they cry out to heaven for vengeance !!!!!

I greet and encourage you to broaden your horizons of knowledge.

I am reading and I do not want to join your discussion, I will only say this.
Gentlemen, instead of giving advice to the founder of the topic, you had discussions. Please do not show off your "knowledge"
Note that the macaw is not writing anything anymore, you scared him.


So for some of the gentlemen, to be clear what network layouts we have, please take a look.

http://www.elektryk.zst.edu.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=143&Itemid=65

And please end this discussion which does not explain anything.

I have a small question for a colleague of the squirrel, what do you think is the purpose of using grounding for pen conductor separation

Grounding the PEN split point to PE and N has its advantages - obtaining a lower PEN conductor resistance, but it also has serious disadvantages in the case of checking the actual resistance of the short-circuit loop of the power supply circuits as well as serious threat in case of damage to the PEN conductor.

I am in favor of earthing the distribution point anyway, in the event of burning the pen, our earthing protects against the increase in voltage in the network and burning the receivers (and as energy scientists say, the differential works better ) and you need to remember to carry out electrical installations in accordance with the applicable rules, including the use of protection zones in the bathroom, the use of local equalizing connections. Unfortunately, the use of grounding in the block is certainly very troublesome But the use of tncs is advisable.

I read that in such an installation as I have, i.e. TN-C (with PEN), you cannot use differentials, is that true?

"They must not be used in a TN-C system (with a PEN protective neutral wire)."

True, they absolutely must not be used on such a network. They will not protect against electrocution. But from what I can see you wrote earlier that you have TN-S installations ???

And in which place ?
If this is what you understood, then I am just simply looking at it more closely, so:

There is a strip with 4 connectors in front of the meter, but only 2 wires are connected, so most likely: L and PEN.
The pre-meter protection is most likely 25A (it is sealed) because the fuse for the sockets was 20A (16A lighting).

I plan to connect:
Sockets:
1st room (4 sockets) -> 16A (B16)
2nd room + hall (4 sockets) -> 16A (B16)
bathroom (2 sockets) -> 16A (B16) - there was supposed to be a differential, but due to the PEN cable it cannot be used
1ob kitchen (3 sockets) -> 16A (B16)
2ob kitchen (1 socket) -> 16A (B16)
all sockets are secured with an additional 20A (B20) circuit breaker

lighting:
1st room -> 10A (B10)
2nd room -> 10A (B10)
bathroom + toilet -> 10A (B10)
hall -> 10A (B10)
kitchen -> 10A (B10)
all lighting is secured with an additional 16A (B16) overcurrent switch

and in this configuration it is to be plugged into the meter, bypassing the old fuses.

Is this the correct solution?

And one more thing -> is it necessary (if so, how) to use equipotential bonding?

You have to adapt to: The Ordinance of the Minister of Infrastructure on technical conditions to be met by buildings and their location of April 12, 2002 (supplemented in 2004)

§ 183. 1. In electrical installations, the following should be used:
2) separate protective and neutral conductor , in distribution and receiving circuits,
3) residual current protection devices or other means of protection against electric shock, appropriate to the type and purpose of the building or its part,
4) circuit breakers in load circuits ,
5) the principle of selectivity (selectivity) of security,
7) main and local equipotential bonding , connecting protective conductors with conductive parts of other installations and building structures,
8 / the principle of routing electric wires in straight lines parallel to the edges of walls and ceilings,
9) electric cables with conductors made exclusively of copper, if their cross-section does not exceed 10 mm2,
10) surge protection devices .
Point 1 and 6 are omitted because it does not apply to you, the others are as much as possible.

PS Off residual current device you have to apply, and to your question as to what to apply. I will answer it in the TN-C network as mentioned many times: You can, but on the condition that you split PEN into PE and N and create a TN-CS network.

I have an appointment with an electrician (my father-in-law's friend) for tomorrow and I'll find out everything,

Thank you all for your advice and best regards.

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