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Diagram of the electrical installation of the house with the breakdown of PEN

zigamor0 148618 16
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 9360666
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    I have a great request to fellow electricians regarding the house installation diagram, if the diagram is correct.
    I don't have much experience with the changes you are proposing.
    ZE conditions:
    - t nc network connected power 14 kw.
    - execution of a section of a four-core line from the measuring connector to the building's switchboard, where the earthing and conductor separation should be performed.
    - protection devices b, c, d.
    ................
    - the power supply to the house is 4x10 Cu.
    - it is not known exactly what the sauna heater will be.
    - what kind of protectors to use and whether to protect them?
    I will be grateful for any advice.
    In the green frame, I marked the connection from the power supply and what is the disconnector in it.
    Diagram of the electrical installation of the house with the breakdown of PEN
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  • #2 9360980
    michalekk1
    Level 24  
    A little larger picture would be useful, because the text is unreadable (it is possible for stubborn people, but it would be better to have)

    What is the value of the pre-meter protection?

    There are no future plans for an electric hob in the kitchen? It would be nice to put some installations for this, so as not to scratch the walls afterwards.

    Is there any specific reason to cut the protector with the C20 miniature circuit breaker? The question has become obsolete after reading the author's question carefully :oops:
  • #3 9361029
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    pre-meter protection 25A
    security axle 10A
    16A sockets
    stove, washing machine, dryer, sauna, power socket 16A
    differential - current axis 25A 30ma
    the remaining 40A 30ma
  • #4 9361108
    karolq
    Level 22  
    Why an N conductor protector, if there is a N strip directly connected to PE, and also a C20A protector. It is the protectors that are supposed to protect the load, not the protectors.
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  • #5 9361355
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    I wrote early that I am not sure how it should be with these protectors
    In the conditions of connection to the network there is an entry (class B surge protection devices, cont. To be installed outside the connector that is
    owned by ZE)
    Attack, besides, there are different manufacturers of protectors and some protectors must be secured, while others do not require it
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  • #6 9361442
    marcinolesno

    Level 17  
    The protections of the protector, as my colleague mentioned, depends on its type. However, if it is not required, it is worth considering whether the protector will have replaceable inserts. If not, it is worth providing at least some disconnector along the way. It is so good that in the event of an arrester activation, hardly anyone has something to replace it, then we disconnect the arrester and we can continue to use the installation "calmly". Otherwise, the electricity instead of to our receivers is escaping nicely to the ground ... we still know what is happening.
    If the arrester has replaceable inserts, savers can remove the damaged inserts instead of installing a disconnector.
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  • #7 9361555
    Miniax
    Electrician specialist
    I do not see the point in installing an RCD on the lighting circuits.
    Remember that in your case the value of the grounding resistance must be less than 10 ohms.
    You should ground the PE rail via GSW.
  • #8 9364073
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    marcinolesno
    What type of ear muffs should you use

    Added after 5 [minutes]:

    Miniax wrote:
    I do not see the point in installing an RCD on the lighting circuits.
    Remember that in your case the value of the grounding resistance must be less than 10 ohms.
    You should ground the PE rail via GSW.


    As for the installation of the RCD switch on the lighting circuits, I agree with my friend, but in this case there will be lamps in a metal housing in the garage, and probably an RCD should be used
  • #9 9364126
    Miniax
    Electrician specialist
    zigamor0 wrote:


    As for the installation of the RCD switch on the lighting circuits, I agree with my friend, but in this case there will be lamps in a metal housing in the garage, and probably an RCD should be used


    That's what the EP and the SWZ are for.
  • #10 9364675
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    Miniax wrote:
    zigamor0 wrote:


    As for the installation of the RCD switch on the lighting circuits, I agree with my friend, but in this case there will be lamps in a metal housing in the garage, and probably an RCD should be used


    That's what the EP and the SWZ are for.


    I corrected the diagram and adjusted it to the remark whether the installation is acceptable in this condition, I will also add that I want to use a hoop as an earth electrode and bury it together with the cable,
    Whether the hoop itself is enough or it can be connected at the end with a pin, the measurement will certainly be necessary Diagram of the electrical installation of the house with the breakdown of PEN
  • #11 9364756
    remik_l
    Level 29  
    Or maybe a colleague a little about the power of devices, wire cross-sections to write and read about the protection of control lamps and overvoltage protection?
  • #12 9365417
    zigamor0
    Level 11  
    remik_l wrote:
    Or maybe a colleague a little about the power of devices, wire cross-sections to write and read about the protection of control lamps and overvoltage protection?

    A colleague is wrong if he thinks that I have not read every topic
    the protection of the control lamps leads to a discussion, this problem is raised in the forum of the Polish electricians' association,
    quote: (Such lamps are not protected. Yes you can, but short circuits are rare.
    In addition, there is a resistor in it, which will burn at most when the light source is short-circuited.
    The opinions are similar.
    Conductor cross-sections:
    lighting - 3x 1.5, sockets - 3x 2.5 dryer - 3x 2.5 dryer - 3x 2.5
    stove - 5x 2.5 sauna - 5x 4
    connection in a 4 mm switchgear
    pe-10mm Cu

    Topic is closed.
  • #13 16411932
    Piotr520
    Level 24  
    Hello all.
    I am digging up the old topic, but I am reviewing the connection of distribution boxes because I will be making such a connection at home, and I have one question for you. After reading the topic, I still do not understand why this disconnector between the phase indicator and the surge protector? You can explain it in peasantry not to an electrician :D .
    The second thing I can see is that there are two types of surge protectors. With one exit at the bottom or with four exits. What is the difference between them and how to connect the one with four outputs, because the one with one is a simple matter.
    Thanks for the answers.
  • #14 16412029
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics
    This is the main disconnect. Each switchgear should have one. Besides, this drawing (not the diagram) is not entirely correct. For example, there is no back-up for control lamps, a circuit for a dishwasher, bathroom lighting is not protected by RCD, etc.

    As for the protectors, it all depends on their construction. After a peasant boy, the difference is that some protectors are factory-bridged, others are not, and you have to make the bridge yourself, e.g. with a comb. It is worth remembering that not all protectors require back-up protection, and if not with overcurrent circuit breakers, as recommended by Legrand.
  • #15 16412088
    Piotr520
    Level 24  
    Thank you for the answer, but I think I wrote it wrong. It's about this C20 before the surge protector.
    One more thing, I understand that the circuit for the dishwasher must have an RCD?
  • #16 16412157
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics
    Piotr520 wrote:
    Thank you for the answer, but I think I wrote it wrong. It's about this C20 before the surge protector.

    The manufacturer of the protector decides about it.

    Piotr520 wrote:
    One more thing, I understand that the circuit for the dishwasher must have an RCD?

    Each circuit terminated with a socket and lighting in the bathroom must be covered by an RCD.
  • #17 16787132
    CYRUS2
    Level 43  
    Aral91 wrote:
    why Connection in a 4 mm switchgear if the connection is 5x6 mm, probably because it is now a standard, it is probably logical that the switchgear should have the same cross-section?
    The cross-section is selected for 2 options:
    1. Load capacity
    The temperature of the cable core depends on the walking, the ability to dissipate heat.
    In the case of a cable, the 2 wires are heated to each other.
    In addition, it depends on the arrangement - the cable is inserted into the wall, or it dissipates heat less well in the ground.
    In the switchboard, we have a vein in the air.
    This conductor has additionally single insulation.
    4mm2 conductor in the switchboard lining for better cooling than 6mm2 conductor in the ground cable.
    2. Voltage drops.
    They depend on the resistance of the conductor. Cores with a larger cross-section than indicated by the load capacity are used over a long length.
    Therefore, to reduce the resistance of the circuit.
    There are short sections of cable in the switchgear lining - the impact of the resistance of these sections of the cable is negligible.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the electrical installation diagram for a house, focusing on the correct implementation of PEN breakdown and the selection of protective devices. Key points include the need for pre-meter protection rated at 25A, the use of various circuit breakers (B, C, D types), and the importance of grounding resistance being below 10 ohms. Participants debated the necessity of RCDs for lighting circuits, particularly in areas with metal fixtures, and discussed the configuration of surge protectors, including the use of disconnectors. The author also sought advice on the adequacy of a hoop as an earth electrode and the specifics of wire cross-sections for different appliances. The conversation highlighted the importance of understanding the specifications and requirements for electrical safety and compliance.
Summary generated by the language model.
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