Block - Radiator Heats Top Only: Seeking Guidance on DHW Circulation Pump IBO 15-14

Hello
I am looking for and I have not found an answer to my problem. I live in a block on the ground floor and my radiator is the first one on this riser, only the top tube heats up and the bottom is quite cold. The return from the radiator is cold, while the vertical return is cool. At their neighbors, they do not warm up the entire inch, but they have a lukewarm return. I have already connected the radiator on the side and cross and it still does not heat. I was looking on the net and found nothing, I'm already thinking about buying a pump. 15-14 DHW circulation pump IBO to force circulation in the radiator, but I do not know if it will work. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong? He adds photos of what the riser looks like and what were the radiator connections and nothing heats up the return pipe recently replaced to the valves in the basement and then I have nothing but costs
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Try to bleed the system. There is an air vent on the top left of the radiator. Unscrew it and see if any air comes out. If the water is flowing, turn it - it's OK.

The water is running, the radiator is deaerated and I will add that when I drain the water with the bottom screw, it only gets warm, but when I turn the screw it immediately gets cold again.

In this type of heaters, and especially with such a number of ribs, it is very difficult (if possible) to maintain a similar temperature over the entire radiator surface. The top of the radiator will always be much warmer than the bottom. There are at least several reasons for this:
-thickness (cross-section) of the pipes to the radiator,
-number of radiators in a given riser,
- appropriate crimping,
- the water temperature, especially on the supply, the higher the water temperature, the more warm the radiator as a whole.

I will say that only the top tube is hot and the bottom plates are cold already, my radiator in this riser is the first, it should probably heat a little better and what do you think if I would put such a pump on Circulating DHW 15-14 DHW circulation pump IBO? This radiator was set up by a plumber and he already combined the radiator connections and he replaced the pipe, and now he replied that after the heating period he may still return, maybe he can change something he is not sure

Connecting the radiator diagonally, such a long one, makes perfect sense. This type of heater does not reach high temperatures at the bottom, because there is little heating medium in it, therefore heat will be released in the upper part, and many heat sinks effectively release it to the environment. Putting a pump on will probably help to obtain a higher temperature on the return, but it may disrupt the circulation, in other radiators on this riser. The radiator does not have to be all hot, it is important that the room in which it is installed is heated to a comfortable (as expected) temperature.

The heater only heats up as in the attached photo in the room I have from 15'C to 19'C, it is a bit slow and I do not say how the frost will come, what will be, and that's why I only have to try the pump, I do not know if it will help me again, I would not throw out the money in the mud

As it is an apartment in a block of flats, as I wrote, you would have to check the entire riser, how other radiators heat it. Perhaps someone has interfered with the choking of the radiators, or there is too little flow in the entire riser. The installation of an additional pump may disrupt the operation of the entire riser, and in addition, I am not sure if it is possible to interfere with the installation without the consent of the building manager.

If it is possible, the radiator would have to be raised slightly from the vent side and then vented. In general, see if it is installed so that the vent side is slightly higher than the hot water inlet valve.

On this riser there are two more radiators above, both heats almost inches from the apartment and they argue that they are only for the valve at the beginning of the block, the rest is ours and for what was already done with this radiator and pipes from the return, the neighbors themselves sit quietly because they have warmth and it is surprising to me, since my radiator is the first on the riser and it does not heat and heats them. that's why I am thinking of a pump. This year, when I moved in, I changed all the radiators from cast iron to aluminum ones and I do not know if it will help, but the neighbor from above said that only from this heating period it has warmth and it was always cold, it may be the reason that my plumber replaced this heater and I'm not sure, but it looks like the inlet is 18 and the return did 15, maybe it's a fault that I'm blocking?
And when it comes to hanging the radiator, the radiator is hanging under the angle and the vent is above the radiator inlet pipe and there is also a return pipe.

Close the hot water supply. Open the air vent valve and leave it open until no more air bubbles come out. Now close the air vent and open the supply valve.

I did this and nothing else the same

Well, if there is no air in the radiator, there is a choked flow somewhere, since other floors heat well.

Siwy245 wrote:

This is how it looks to me that the inlet is 18 and the return did 15, maybe it has a wine that I'm blocking?

Maybe the problem starts here. Although the flow in the block is forced by the pump, a constriction with such a large radiator is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, I can not change anything with the outlet, because the plumber from the cooperative who did it says that it is good, although I argued with him that the cross-section was larger and he had his and I saw what was

It remains to experiment with the pump. You could install a circulation pump, such as for the hot water circulation, when you want to have hot water immediately after turning on the tap. It has less power and should be enough to increase the flow through one radiator.

Thanks, I was thinking about such a pump, can it be mounted on a radiator? This is the only thing left for me, and for now I heat the room with an electric radiator M2400W. I hope that this pump will force the return, they are 1/2 inch so they fit the radiator, only a bit of modification will have to be done. I will do it after the new year and I will assume myself, so I will do it a bit and look for parts so only then will I write if I have passed the exam. Thanks a lot for your help

Siwy245 wrote:

The heater only heats up as in the attached photo in the room I have from 15'C to 19'C, it is a bit slow and I do not say how the frost will come, what will be, and that's why I only have to try the pump, I do not know if it will help me again, I would not throw out the money in the mud

The flow of the heating medium is definitely too low. Perhaps the riser is twisted (lift valve), perhaps there is excessive friction. These tubes should do the trick. It is not very clear what the supply valve is. If thermostatic, you can change the coating after removing the head (no need to drain the water).

Quote:

This year, when I moved in, I changed all the radiators from cast iron to aluminum ones and I do not know if it will help, but the neighbor from above said that only from this heating period it has warmth and it was always cold, it may be the reason that my plumber replaced this heater and I'm not sure, but it looks like the inlet is 18 and the return did 15, maybe it's a fault that I'm blocking?

There is nothing to get a doctorate here. You have an unsustainable installation. In the old system (before replacing the radiator) all the heat was flowing through your cast iron radiator:

Quote:

something will help, but the neighbor from above said that only from this heating period it has warmth and it was always cold

this is not the case now because the new one is more resistant. The installation must be re-sketched in this vertical line. No inserting pumps and other inventions. That plumber of yours set down the fluff. After replacement, a skilled person would recalculate the orifices or initial settings and set them vertically. However, knowing life, the client wanted a new heater, so he has it. As far as I know, the replacement of radiators is reported in advance to the SM where they agree to the type and check whether it will not interfere with the operation of the entire installation.

Ps. correct the spelling

Hello,

Referring to the last photo, i.e. where the heating intervals are marked with colors. Is there any other radiator connected to the riser from which these branches come out on the right in the photo? If so, how big, with the same valves and is the connection at the same height and are the diameters the same? Secondly, due to the fact that the valve on the return is not a control valve, but a shut-off valve and it is not possible to make any reasonable adjustments with it, check if it improves if you turn the valve from the full open position to the 2/3 closed position to reduce the flow coming from the radiator. Thirdly, do I see well that the return is powered with a smaller diameter than the power supply or is it just my imagination?

tomek3108-All information is contained in previous posts

Admittedly, I read roughly what is above and I do not really see the answers to my questions, I can see the conversation and venting, about the radiators in the same vertical but higher, about a pump with a smaller diameter, I actually found.

Inkwizycja wrote:

That plumber of yours set down the fluff. After replacement, a skilled person would recalculate the orifices or initial settings and set them vertically.

I agree with you, he did a fluff because he did not cover or calculate anything, he just replaced the radiators and valves were created in this room, which does not heat the radiator, inserted a smaller pipe, because it was 15 and sooner was 18.

Inkwizycja wrote:

However, knowing life, the client wanted a new heater, so he has it. As far as I know, the replacement of radiators is reported in advance to the SM where they agree to the type and check whether it will not interfere with the operation of the entire installation.

Here you are wrong, the plumber persuaded me to replace the radiators in the whole apartment, he said that it would be warm, unfortunately, only valves were created everywhere and it is ok only with this large one, the pipes were moved and it does not heat here and it was reported to the apartment house because the plumber who does all this is a housing worker and a smoker in the boiler room.

tomek3108 wrote:

Secondly, due to the fact that the valve on the return is not a control valve, but a shut-off valve and it is not possible to make any reasonable adjustments with it, check if it improves if you turn the valve from the full open position to the 2/3 closed position to reduce the flow coming from the radiator.

sooner the valve on the return was set up with regulation, such as an 8 hexagon, then only half was heating, now I replaced it with a 1/2 inch ball valve, it is a bit better, it warms up as in the picture, closing it does not make anything worse.

tomek3108 wrote:

Thirdly, do I see well that the return is powered with a smaller diameter than the power supply or is it just my imagination?

so the return of the plumber reduced to a lower 15, he says that the power is 15 and in my eye, where I am not a plumber, the power is 18.

Now chase him, make him correct.

Sono2020 wrote:

Now chase him, make him correct

That's how, according to him, everything is fine and he doesn't want to do anything here anymore and I'm fed up with his stupid talk. Now I will try to insert the same CIRCULATION PUMP DHW 15-14 DHW circulation IBO can it help?

Most recently, when I see various scraps of pseudo plumbers, it pisses me off with their ignorance and impunity. It is practically impossible to force such a person to perform the installation correctly or give money back. And what flowers do, it's a pity to talk.
Install the pump and test if it helps, I don't know.

Inkwizycja wrote:

Quote:

This year, when I moved in, I changed all the radiators from cast iron to aluminum ones and I do not know if it will help, but the neighbor from above said that only from this heating period it has warmth and it was always cold, it may be the reason that my plumber replaced this heater and I'm not sure, but it looks like the inlet is 18 and the return did 15, maybe it has wine that I'm blocking?

There is nothing to get a doctorate here. You have an unsustainable installation. In the old system (before replacing the radiator) all the heat was flowing through your cast iron radiator:

Quote:

It will help, but the neighbor from above said that only from this heating period it has warmth and it was always cold

this is not the case now because the new one is more resistant. The installation must be re-sketched in this vertical line. No inserting pumps and other inventions. That plumber of yours set down the fluff. After replacement, a skilled person would recalculate the orifices or initial settings and set them vertically. However, knowing life, the client wanted a new heater, so he has it. As far as I know, the replacement of radiators is reported in advance to the SM where they agree to the type and check whether it will not interfere with the operation of the entire installation.

Ps. correct the spelling

It can be checked. Namely, the neighbors on the upper floors in this riser can slightly tighten the radiator valves. After this slight tightening, it is worth observing whether this badly heating radiator will heat up slightly better. It is a pity that there are no pre-setting valves, because then rebating is easy and does not require draining water and can be adjusted during the season until the installation is balanced. Calculation - calculation, and the practical test of the installation is the most important.

Zbigniew Rusek wrote:

It can be checked. Namely, the neighbors on the upper floors in this riser can slightly tighten the radiator valves. After this slight tightening, it is worth observing whether this badly heating radiator will heat up slightly better. It is a pity that there are no valves with pre-setting, because then rebating is easy and does not require draining water and can be adjusted during the season until the installation is balanced. Calculation - calculation, and the practical test of the installation is the most important.

It would be the best but I live in this village for thirty years and know people and I can forget that they would agree to slightly tighten the valves because they warm and prefer to open the windows than to close the valves ?

And the pump works, the valve is open maybe half a millimeter and the radiator heats up and hot water goes to the neighbors too, it helped. In the summer, I will try to replace the return pipe with a larger diameter, such as the heater supply, maybe without the pump, the heater will heat up as it should. Thanks for the hints

Check if this radiator is properly mounted? You have to check it with a spirit level. The radiator should be slightly upwards from the air vent. Otherwise, it will be difficult to vent it. If we want to vent it, then only with an air vent. You must not vent it on the return, because it will get a little air.

triakw wrote:

Check if this radiator is properly mounted? You have to check it with a spirit level. The radiator should be slightly upwards from the air vent. Otherwise, it will be difficult to vent it. If we want to vent it, then only with an air vent. You must not vent it on the return, because it will get a little air.

I know it and it is properly installed and vented, I wrote about it before