- Selecting a Gas Boiler for a 70m2 Two-Level Apartment with One Bathroom: Roca Sara 24/24F Issues

Ladies and Gentlemen!

The matter is not easy, because you have to choose a boiler for the apartment (70m2, two-level apartment, one bathroom at a distance of about 10m from the boiler). At the moment, we are using Roca, Sara 24 / 24F (dual-function). There are several things that bother me, namely:
1) Has big problems with domestic water heating, especially during the heating season. By the way, the recommended pressure in this furnace is 1.5 Bar - I noticed that during the heating season this pressure drops quite drastically when the furnace does not heat up (by approx. 0.5 Bar). I can't increase this pressure either, because it rises dramatically when the stove turns on and starts heating up again.
2) Has big problems with turning on (again utility water). It is often related to 1) (pressure drop), but I observed the same problem before the heating season (then the set pressure was at the said 1.5 Bar). Can anything be done about it?

Returning to the merits - 1) and 2) make me replace the boiler. And here the first question arises: a double or single-function boiler? Generally my priority is to make the boiler very well coped with domestic water heating , also (or maybe most of all!) during the heating season. After exploring the topic (I am not an expert in this field, and for sure I will not become an expert), it comes out that to ensure the necessary condition, which I mentioned, a single-function boiler with a reservoir would be better. Is this my conclusion true or is it possible to find a good combi boiler that will provide high comfort of use in the case of domestic water heating ?

At the moment I am keeping an eye on the following boilers:
1) Viessmann Vitodens 100-W with 6.5-26 kW - B1KC026 (dual function),
2) Viessmann Vitodens 100-W 6.5-19 kW with Vitocell 100-W type CUG (single function),
3) JUNKERS CERAPUR MIDI ZWB 24-1 RE (dual-purpose)
4) JUNKERS CERAPUR MIDI ZWB 24-1AR (single-function + "some" heater)
5) VAILLANT VUW PRO 240 / 5-3 ERP (dual-purpose)
6) IMMERGAS NIKE STAR 24 4 ERP (dual-purpose)
7) VAILLANT ECOTEC PLUS VCW 296 / 3-5 (dual function)

Yes, I know that the cross-section is quite large ... Opinions on the Internet regarding the above boilers are positive. How to choose the best one?

In conclusion, I would like a new boiler:
1) Allows for comfortable use of domestic water (trouble-free and quick heating, also during the heating season).
2) It was failure-free
3) He was quiet

I know the requirements are strong, but I think it's better to pay (a little?) More now and end up with a good stove than to pay less and end up feeling nervous ...

I kindly ask honorable forum members for help. Each tip is worth its weight in gold!

Make a list again with boilers that start working from 3kW, then you will be satisfied with this size. Then look for a site in your area, because we don't know where you live.

Do you think about the minimum nominal heat output? I am from Silesia.
Oh, in the previous post I forgot to mention the De Dietrich boilers. We are also thinking about this company ...

De Dietrich has the most expensive parts I advise against. As a colleague wrote, take into account boilers with a minimum capacity of 2-3 kW because these are from 6-7 kW and this is as much as you need to heat the whole apartment in frost -25 degrees C. The boiler will clock all the time, so it will not be economical. I recommend a combi boiler with a built-in hot water tank 45 lt Termet Ecocondens Integra II 25 kW with a minimum power of 2.8 kW and a warranty of up to 7 years. The basis is see the service.

The Ecocondens Integra II 25 kW termet looks really good, but ... it's too big I have just measured what I need and it comes out that: the boiler can be high (here Termet could easily do it), width (I give the maximum dimensions): 56 cm, depth: 50-55 cm. I really like the idea of the built-in tray. Can you recommend any other boilers with such a tray?

You need to provide even more details:
70m2 apartment on which floor and how many of them are there in the block?
is it possible to insert a combustion pipe into a condensing boiler - you need to find out in the "cooperative"?

Only condensing boilers will have a low minimum power, so all boilers with an open combustion chamber fall off. The condensate, unfortunately, requires inserting a ~ 80mm diameter flue pipe into the existing chimney. From boilers with a built-in storage tank, you also have:
Vaillant VCI 296 / 5-5 (it is a 2-function boiler VCW 296 / 5-5 + "backpack" with two small containers - one is hung on the other)
SaunierDuval IsofastCondens (1x21 l.) 25kW
SaunierDuval IsotwinCondens (2x21 l.) 30kW and 35kW
DeDietrich MCA 25/28 BIC (40 y.)

If you don't have a floor heating, don't listen to this nonsense about condensing boilers
these boilers are suitable for underfloor heating
you will pay much more than for a turbo and the point is that the boiler should heat up the apartment quickly
unless you have oversized radiators
I would buy [Gas boiler Vaillant Turbo Tec combi boiler

wsjoanna222 wrote:

If you don't have a floor heating, don't listen to this nonsense about condensing boilers
these boilers are suitable for underfloor heating
you will pay much more than for a turbo and the point is that the boiler should heat up the apartment quickly
unless you have oversized radiators
I would buy [Gas boiler Vaillant Turbo Tec combi boiler

I am one of those people who, at their own request, let themselves be stretched out on a condenser.

I will say this - I do not have an underfloor heating system, some of the radiators are still cast iron and this heating season I have not yet exceeded 50 on the boiler. As for the cost of heating, it is comparable or cheaper than before on ground / pea in previous seasons. Thermal comfort and time saved ...... The boiler works almost 24/24, almost does not clock - the exception is that it will turn off after a frosty night when the sun is strong (windows from the east and south), most of the time it works at minimum power.

Best regards and I wish you correct zakuopów.

remember that cast iron is not a sheet, as is usually the case, think why there are cast iron radiators in the blocks and find out what the price is today.
condensation for panel heaters at the parameters of 80/60 ° C and the condensate has the highest efficiency at 50/30 ° C and what such a customer does as
is he cold?

It does not deal with heating installations - first of all. Secondly, my father-in-law has a turbo, 2x smaller apartment, for me strange settings of the room controller, minimum power for him about 7 kW - a boiler for power - consumption like my own (although it has a better insulated building than me) and a vestibule. I do not go into why there is cast iron in the blocks (heat allocators ). In the spring I will have the rest of the radiators replaced with aluminum.

You can look for my posts - when there is little heat demand, the room controller lowers the power and the supply temperature. Most of the time it works at a minimum or a little over. For the author of the thread, I propose to do an experiment - to put 6 kW electric heaters in the house and wait for the results ..... Maybe I'm wrong, but it may result from the fact that I have a comparison.

Regards

ls_77 wrote:

You need to provide even more details:
70m2 apartment on which floor and how many of them are there in the block?
is it possible to insert a combustion pipe into a condensing boiler - you need to find out in the "cooperative"?

The apartment is on the 2nd and 3rd floors (there are 3 floors). We do not have underfloor heating. Could I ask for more information on condensing boilers? Why are the owners of such stoves "dissatisfied"? Is it about their wastefulness?

Regarding the Vaillant Turbo Tec boiler - reviews here: http://www.ceneo.pl/25185159 do not encourage ...

palala wrote:

For the author of the thread, he proposes to do an experiment - to install 6 kW electric heaters in the house and wait for the results.

The only effect will be ... the fuses will "blow" after a short time.
Advice pointless, even harmful.

electronic_buff wrote:

Why are the owners of such stoves "dissatisfied"? Is it about their wastefulness?

Don't listen to nonsense. Each condensing boiler (almost) installed in accordance with the art and not oversized will be more economical than a turbo-generator. The floor does not have much to do with it, because 90% of the heating period will still work at a low flow temperature. Well, unless someone "saved" on radiators and gave them tiny ones, requiring 90/70 oC.
As colleagues wrote, look for a boiler with the lowest minimum power possible.
The most optimal is to use a low-power boiler, and therefore min. together with the DHW tank.
In new blocks, developers install boilers, min. 24 kW for the convenience of DHW, which are a disaster for central heating. The boilers cycle and burn more gas, working in conditions that are not optimal for them. However, the developers are banging it. They will not pay for gas and the tenants have the illusory feeling that "everyone pays for their heating", which is nonsense in the block of flats.

Since cast iron radiators accumulate heat
Compact heat exchangers are located in the blocks

what kind of heaters do you have
are they twice as powerful
if so, you can install the condensate with the tank
heater power such as eg Purmo CV22 600/600 at temperatures
75/65/20 c = 1025
55/45 / 20c = 514
as you can see, the power of these radiators is halved
the condensing boiler has the highest efficiency at 55/45 / 20c
I do not understand what is the matter with this water that you cannot heat up

wsjoanna222 wrote:

I would buy [Gas boiler Vaillant Turbo Tec combi boiler

I'm curious where!
These boilers have not been offered for 1.5 years, because the European Union has banned them from being placed on the market. And the boiler manufacturers knew about it earlier and had already finished production earlier. If they are still in stores, they may be "storage loungers". As for performance, the condensates are more efficient than the turbo and much quieter.

ls_77 wrote:

From boilers with a built-in storage tank, you also have:
Vaillant VCI 296 / 5-5 (it is a 2-function boiler VCW 296 / 5-5 + "backpack" with two small containers - one is hung on the other)
SaunierDuval IsofastCondens (1x21 l.) 25kW
SaunierDuval IsotwinCondens (2x21 l.) 30kW and 35kW
DeDietrich MCA 25/28 BIC (40 y.)

Thanks for the list! DeDietrich rather falls out of it, due to its dimensions (it is too wide). SaunierDuval looks good - does any of you have experience with this company? (And it's perfect with this boiler)? Interesting - I can't find reviews about this boiler on the web ...
Regarding Vaillant, I found these reviews: http://www.opineo.pl/opinie-721080-vaillant-ecotec-plus-vcw-296.html, which are quite unpleasant ...

I would not be influenced by these opinions.
Unfortunately - with every condensing boiler it is so, if anyone cares, so does it.
The condensate is very easy to "blow" and then it can cause problems. But systematic service avoids this. This is the case with all brands, not only with Vaillant

I agree that everything can be taken for granted, but comments like there are stressful ...
How about these Saunier Duvals? Is it worth taking a look at them?

Ladies and Gentlemen!
In the spring, I come back to the topic of boiler replacement, afraid to carry out this action in the winter (what if something went wrong!). The following boilers were left on the battlefield:
- Junkers Cerapur Compact with a container 120l ST 120-5 Z,
- Vaillant VC 146 with the same hopper.
Any suggestions? Thank you in advance!
-

Termet gold plus with a tray of 100 lt

wsjoanna222 wrote:

remember that cast iron is not a sheet, as is usually the case, think why there are cast iron radiators in the blocks and find out what the price is today.
condensation for panel heaters at the parameters of 80/60 ° C and the condensate has the highest efficiency at 50/30 ° C and what such a customer does as
is he cold?

Not necessarily. For condensate, it is important that the RETURN temperature does not exceed 50 degrees and the supply temperature does not affect condensation, so it can be successfully on the supply, e.g. 70 degrees (on the return 50) and there will be condensation.

Hello everyone!

I am faced with the challenge of buying a gas boiler (apartment 100m2). I only know that it is supposed to be a condensing boiler with two functions. It is difficult for me to decide on a specific model. Thanks in advance for your help. Pawn!

Hello. I will join the question. My apartment is approx. 100 m on the 1st and 2nd floor (two-level). Block from 1936. Energy-saving windows, former German block. I don't have a floor heating. I am currently using a Termet minimax dynamic turbo boiler. It seems to me that more and more starts to consume about 200m of gas per month, now. 21/19 degrees Celsius settings. I am wondering about the replacement and now the question is whether condensing dual-function or similar with a closed combustion chamber and what company. Please help.

Gary K wrote:

I am thinking about replacing and now the question is whether condensing dual-function or similar with a closed combustion chamber and what company

Combination systems with a closed combustion chamber are no longer available on the market. The ban on production and import came into force in September 2015. From that moment on, boilers already manufactured or already imported could be sold. For a long time I have not even seen anywhere in stock in any warehouse. If you buy somewhere, think about it - it may be a storage "deck chair".
Rather, you will be left with a choice between condensing boilers. You just need to check what chimney you have currently installed for your boiler. Not all chimneys for "turbo" boilers are suitable for condensation!
The choice of the brand is up to you - it must depend on access to a good service in your area.

DeDietrich MCA 25/28 BIC (40) - I would take this one. De Dietrich did not let us down and we have been using it for several years.

I have a Termet Ecocondens Gold Plus condensing boiler (it is smaller than Ecocondens Integra II). It belongs to the "A" energy class in terms of both central heating and domestic hot water. I have no problem waiting a long time for hot water, it is quiet and so far there has been no breakdown.

jack63 wrote:

palala wrote:

For the author of the thread, he proposes to do an experiment - to install 6 kW electric heaters in the house and wait for the results.

The only effect will be ... the fuses will "blow" after a short time.
Advice pointless, even harmful.

electronic_buff wrote:

Why are the owners of such stoves "dissatisfied"? Is it about their wastefulness?

Don't listen to nonsense. Each condensing boiler (almost) installed in accordance with the art and not oversized will be more economical than a turbo-generator. The floor does not have much to do with it, because 90% of the heating period will still work at a low flow temperature. Well, unless someone "saved" on radiators and gave them tiny ones, requiring 90/70 oC.
As colleagues wrote, look for a boiler with the lowest minimum power possible.
The most optimal is to use a low-power boiler max, and therefore min. together with the DHW tank.
In new blocks, developers install boilers, min. 24 kW for the convenience of DHW, which are a disaster for central heating. The boilers clock and burn more gas while operating in conditions that are not optimal for them. However, the developers are banging it. They will not pay for gas and the tenants have the illusory feeling that "everyone pays for their heating", which is nonsense in the block of flats.

I can confirm that I feel it during the first heating season. I have a boiler with a minimum capacity of 8.5 kW. This is where minus 9 is on the outside, it ticks every now and then ... Well, first apartment, no knowledge. Price etc etc idt.