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Question about a gas boiler - New house 116 meters, it is not known which boiler

KVIAT69 7950 18
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  • #1
    KVIAT69
    Level 2  
    At the beginning I would like to say hello to you and greet forum members. I am completely new here, sometimes I visited as a guest.
    I have a problem and confusion with the choice of oven:
    Factual status: house 116 meters from aerated concrete + 15cm graphite foam.
    Heating: gas + DGP fireplace with turbine and ventilation to the living room (with the kitchen open together 36.5 meters, the living room alone 23m) and the room downstairs (9.2m) - a total of 45.7 meters; and up to 3 rooms upstairs 36m. Downstairs there will be a floor, upstairs in the bathroom, hallway and wardrobe, floor, in three rooms, plate heaters.
    I will rarely smoke in the fireplace, I don't have time for it a week. I leave home 6.30 and come back 18.00, but weekends off.
    I have water from a drilled well, so you need to heat.
    What to choose Viesmann? Brötje? With tray, without? Single or dual function?
    I can spend for five to 8,000. zł. Energy efficiency, reliability and service are important.
    I am asking for any advice and thank you in advance.
  • #2
    daro31ie
    Automation specialist
    My friend, I recommend Dietrich with a tray and a dedicated controller.

    Knocks down on price and quality.
    I've been around the house for 3 years and it works great.
  • #3
    KVIAT69
    Level 2  
    Thanks for the answer. What is your model and how is your performance?
  • Helpful post
    #4
    andrzej lukaszewicz
    Level 39  
    Termet ecocondens + separate tank 150-200L CWU. 3600+ 1600+ any regulator (s) 150max. = 5350.
    The difference of PLN 2650 will not "make up" for any super boiler, because they are all comparable in their class. Cheap parts for it, available service. In 10-12 years you will still exchange for the next one so there is nothing to get excited about with brands.
    Instead of an expensive boiler, I would divide into zones with separate thermoregulators and valves: up, down, floor, bathroom (s) and here there will be savings due to the completely different reactions of underfloor heating and attic heaters especially.
  • Helpful post
    #5
    szach11
    Level 12  
    Andrzej Lukaszewicz advises you well. In addition, the termet is also worth attention VICTRIX 24 TT 2 ErP + plus tank 160
  • Helpful post
    #6
    irus.m
    Heating systems specialist
    For such a small Victrix surface, 12 kW = tank
  • #7
    szach11
    Level 12  
    Lower power may also be his plus will be that it goes a little lower with modulation but it will heat the water in the tank twice as long so something for something. Comfort of hot water or slightly lower modulation.
  • Helpful post
    #8
    dobroslaw

    Level 22  
    The most important service is factory or warranty with access to parts, authorization alone is not enough, the company is secondary.
    If you have a service in the area, I recommend De Dietrich mcr 3 24t + and sense, if you want better control with the floor, but more expensive is mca 15 and isystem, storage, e.g. biawar, God's weapon, De Dietrich.
  • Helpful post
    #9
    irus.m
    Heating systems specialist
    szach11 wrote:
    Lower power may also be his plus will be that it goes a little lower with modulation but it will heat the water in the tank twice as long so something for something. Comfort of hot water or slightly lower modulation.

    Nonsense.
    you use the water in large quantities sporadically, and the boiler starts when the temperature of the water in the tank begins to fall. It does not wait when the hot water runs out in the tank.
    According to statistics, the boiler works on central heating about 2100 hours per year. And it is not indifferent to the correct operation (and finance) of small installations, whether the boiler has a P min - 1.8 kW, or, for example, 3 kW. Count the percentage difference.

    best regards
  • Helpful post
    #10
    pawelpiwowarczyk
    Level 10  
    I put in my 3 cents. House 180m2 (120m2 heated, the rest unheated attic). Wall insulation 25cm graphite polystyrene, roof 35cm wool but, for example, metal "construction" doors, insulated and leaky, unfinished attic insulation in several places, etc.
    We don't live yet, we have been holding the house at 16-20 degrees since autumn (finishing works). Victrix 12KW boiler (+ 160l storage tank) so far without any automation installed (control is carried out via a knob on the pipe).
    The dial is set to "2.5" (scale from 1 to 9). The boiler works constantly. The outflowing water is 40 ° C. Radiators barely warm. At home today 17 ° C (outside -5 and wind). When the temperature was +5, I reduced the power to "2" because the house was too warm.

    This illustrates how monstrously oversized gas boilers are installed today. Their powers are the same as 10 years ago and the energy efficiency of homes has increased dramatically. It is not worth installing monsters after 24 or 32KW.
    The added value at low boiler output is the lack of the need to build a chimney for it (in our case it mattered).

    What's more (I go beyond the thread but I think it's interesting), because I wanted to turn off the floor in the kitchen, I turned off the central heating pump supplying the floor divider. Kitchen floor ... still warm. Only turning the valves on the kitchen circuit helped. Now I think that I was getting myself by putting on a separate pump driving the floor divider. A pump in the boiler would calmly drain the entire installation. And it seemed to me that comparing to installations that are promoted on forums and in the professional press, I have a simple one :-)
  • #11
    KVIAT69
    Level 2  
    I received such an offer, please give me an opinion.

    There is such an option boiler Brotje WGB M Evo 20 kw (NOT LARGE?) - after discounts PLN 8,900

    Heater charging kit evb evo
    Rgb programmer
    Hot water heater 120l
    Diaphragm vessel co
    Diaphragm expansion vessel

    Materials and labor per m2 of underfloor heating: Tweetop-PERT-AL 16 '' pipe, edge tape, clips, 3 cm mat for floor

    5i-circuit underfloor heating manifold with valvex flow meters
    3-circuit floor heating manifold with valvex flow meters

    I am asking for opinions

    Cosmo 22kv60 / 140 radiator
    Cosmo 22kv60 / 72 radiator
    Cosmo 22kv 60/100 radiator
    Cosmo 22kv 60/80 radiator
    Thermostatic heads
    Radiator connection set
    LC switch 2
  • #12
    rogera
    Level 15  
    I propose a GB072 boiler with a capacity of 14kW from Buderus.
  • #13
    użytkownik593
    Level 9  
    Hello everyone, I have a flat of 60m2 + hot water 80l, flat in an old, insulated tenement house for 1p, plastic windows, brugmam panel radiators, copper pipes, height 3m, what gas boiler needs? I now have a regular coal boiler but is fed up with this dust and stench in the apartment, what boiler do you recommend, what power?
  • #14
    KamilWysoki
    Level 2  
    Like Andrzej and Szach11, I recommend Termet boilers. I have Termet Ecocondens Gold Plus and it works as it should. Polish brand, so there is no problem with the service. Although, fortunately, I didn't need their help yet. I have a single function condensing boiler.
  • #15
    BUCKS
    Level 39  
    użytkownik593 wrote:
    I have a flat about 60m2 + hot water 80l, a flat in an old, insulated tenement house for 1p, plastic windows, brugmam panel radiators, copper pipes, height 3m

    In this case, I would realistically estimate approx. 80w / m2, which gives a constant power of 4.8kW to maintain 20 degrees in the room in the cold of -20 degrees. In other words, at 0 degrees it will be half of it, i.e. constant 2.4kW.
    If you want the boiler not clocked at around 0 outside, the minimum boiler output should be around 2kW, i.e. basically a 1-function boiler + hot water tank
    With 2-function boilers, the lowest power that can be obtained is usually a level of 3-3.5kW, so it will make a difference for you.

    użytkownik593 wrote:
    I now have a regular coal boiler

    Here the question remains to what temperature the water was heated at the coal boiler.
    Condensing gas boilers, and now only those worth buying like a low temperature of heating water. They have the greatest efficiency when the return will be 30 degrees.
    With coal-fired boilers, there is a tendency to maintain higher temperatures, and this may mean the need to maintain a higher temperature on the gas boiler so that the heaters give sufficient heat.
    If we would like to lower the heating water temperatures, this involves replacing the radiators with larger ones.
    In other words, replacing the boiler is one thing, but in extreme situations it may be useful to modernize the radiators, but this must be determined individually.

    The undeniable advantage of gas is cleanliness and lack of service, because we set the temperature on the regulator and the rest happens somewhat automatically ;)
    At a friend's, in recent frosts, 2 bags a day went, or 50kg, and someone has to pour it in, because it won't do itself, and then cleaning the boiler from ashes, etc. so if in a house with a separate boiler room you can turn a blind eye to it in the apartment playing with coal is a past for me and I hope that they will not come back again.
  • #16
    Zbigniew Rusek
    Level 36  
    Condensation occurs up to a temperature of 50 degrees on the return, and this means that the supply can reach up to 70. Such conditions, when water is given to radiators with a temperature of 70 degrees, usually occur several nights a year (and it happens that in a given heating season this does not occur), and in average then usually there is 40-45 degrees on the power supply and on return to 30-35). So do not overdo it with the size of the radiators, because then it may be that the summer radiator will cause a sauna in the apartment. One more thing. it is better to choose a radiator as low and long as possible, than high and short, because warm air is lighter than cold and always goes up, so the heat source should be as low as possible (especially since each radiator is warmer hot than down), especially since it freezes first of all from the feet (and at the same time sweat may flow from the back).
  • #17
    BUCKS
    Level 39  
    Zbigniew Rusek wrote:
    Condensation occurs up to a temperature of 50 degrees on the return, and this means that the supply can reach up to 70

    You wrote it in a different thread and I wrote you back but you do not draw conclusions, so I will repeat.
    What do you think the condensation will be at 50, and what at 30 degrees on the return. For this simple reason, boiler manufacturers give the highest efficiency for a return of 30, not 50 degrees.

    Zbigniew Rusek wrote:
    and on average then there is usually 40-45 degrees on the power supply and on return to 30-35)

    If someone uses a coal-fired boiler in the apartment, I rather doubt that he would maintain such parameters.
    If on coal it needed to maintain high temperatures then after replacing the boiler will also have to maintain them at a high level, i.e. it will use the advantages of condensate to a lesser extent.
    Apart from condensation, I personally prefer lower heating water temperatures, because then I feel better comfort than when the heating water is hot and the radiator also becomes hot.

    Zbigniew Rusek wrote:
    So do not overdo the size of the radiators

    I am not exaggerating, I just pay attention to this detail and signal that it requires an individual assessment for a particular case.

    Zbigniew Rusek wrote:
    it is better to choose a radiator as low as possible and long

    I have one heater, 90 cm high, because I could only go to height, not length, and the others are 60 cm high, and I do not confirm the problems you are writing about.
    I do not freeze from below, nor do I pour sweat on my back. Maybe because I am not sitting by the radiator, the heaters are not hot and I do not make a sauna to walk in a short sleeve. For me it is quite optimal and normal. However, if someone wants to walk barefoot, they should mount a floor if it is possible.
  • #18
    francora
    Level 11  
    I recommend De Dietrich 24KW dual-function with a closed combustion chamber = radiators + flooring, kitchen and bathroom via RTLa, a total of 100m2 - a reliable 13 years of continuous operation and connected in an up-down emergency system if it fell.
  • #19
    BUCKS
    Level 39  
    francora wrote:
    I recommend De Dietrich 24KW dual-function with a closed combustion chamber = radiators + flooring, kitchen and bathroom via RTLa, a total of 100m2 - a reliable 13 years of continuous operation and connected in an up-down emergency system if it fell.

    sounds more like advertising than reliable advice.
    Currently, boilers with a closed combustion chamber and with an open one are a thing of the past, and only condensing boilers remain, which also have a closed combustion chamber, but as to durability, it is generally estimated that as such a new boiler will last 10 years it will be good, maybe some will survive several years but there is no such guarantee.
    In addition, now the boilers have electronic pumps, which have the reputation of not very durable devices, so your 13 years of reliable operation has nothing to do with current boilers and the current situation.
    It is worth remembering that the boiler should be selected according to the estimated energy demand, so what matters is its minimum power, which you have not boasted about what your boiler has.
    My boiler with an open combustion chamber is 14 years old, which does not mean that it is the best choice, because with a minimum power according to technical data at the level of 9.1kW (80/60) it is a poor choice for modern, energy-saving buildings with a living area of 100m2 and in terms of thermal comfort it doesn't work well in my 100 m2 non-insulated.