The battery discharges itself after disconnection - voltage 10V

Hello,
I have a problem with the battery, unfortunately my knowledge ends with measuring the voltage.
I don't know why, but for some time it has been happening that the car has been parked for 2 days and the battery is completely discharged. A few moments ago, it could stand for 1.5-2 weeks without any problems. and it fired up with no problems.

I checked its voltage and the meter showed 10.50 V
I connected it to the rectifier, charging it for about 3 hours, the meter indicates 13.11 V
After turning off the rectifier and leaving the battery loose (unplugged from the car) after about 3-4 hours, it performs a measurement, the meter shows 12.70 V
My battery is less than 2 years old.
Its parameters:
55Ah - 615 - 12V - 470A (EN) - Jenox Classic.

Thank you in advance for your help.
Regards

The voltage on the battery should be around 12.50V -12.90V and should stay in this range. should not be allowed to discharge below 11V as this will damage the battery. It is normal for the battery voltage to rise immediately after charging.
If the bulk battery will hold the current at the level of 12.50V - 12.90V, it should be functional when it drops, it means that the battery does not hold the current and needs to be replaced.
If the battery is OK, then you should look for the reason why the car is charging at a standstill. current. The maximum current consumption in a functional car at a standstill should not exceed about 300mA. Connect an ammeter in series between the clamp and the battery, pull out the fuses and check what current is drawing.

The battery is damaged, there is no point in messing with it anymore.

Where does the presumption that it's damaged come from? if it can be charged and holds the voltage around 12.70V, it should be operational.

True, you need to look for power failures in the installation at a standstill. The author describes it a bit wrong, I also thought, after a cursory reading, that it does not hold electricity, but when it loads, it turns out that it is only connected to the installation.

Since my friend is green, please educate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obsE2VnV7rs

In this way, you can only check whether our theory is correct for what and now it gives 90%, then you have to look for what has shorted, broken, etc. but the ability to only measure V does not really see it

wzielonymgaju18 wrote:

Where does the presumption that it's damaged come from?

That's because it was loaded. Discharged to zero and practically fully charged in just 3 hours, it is not possible with a functional battery.

ociz wrote:

Discharged to zero and fully charged in just 3 hours

You know 13.11 is about 30% later it hangs for a long time at about 13.8 13.9 V and a jump at the end above 14V.
Also, the author has a long way to go until the end of loading.

However, the car has a damaged installation and unloads.

To be clear, the battery is charged outside the car (I will only be reviewing to find out what is the reason for the consumption of electricity in the car). The charger was set to a charging level of 10A according to the table on the charger (maybe the charging time was longer). Now I will leave the battery alone overnight and in the morning I will measure what is going on and what voltage the meter will show.

The battery must be charged to 14.5V before it is fully charged.

Today I measured the current in the system and the meter showed 0.10~0.09[A] i.e. averaging approx 95[mA] defenitely too much. I'll have to check over the weekend to see what could be causing it.
In sum: 0.1[A]*12V = 1.2[W]
converting it to the battery, how much can the car stand at rest so as not to go below the voltage 11[V] in the battery.
Parameters: 55Ah - 615 - 12V - 470A (EN) - Jenox Classic.

DjAlcon wrote:

that is, averaging about 95 [mA], definitely too much

Let's say twice as much but this is not a consumption that will kill the battery in 2-3 days.
With a leakage rate of 100mA, you lose 2400mA per day, or 2.4Ah of capacity.
If the battery actually only had 50% of its rated capacity, how long would it last?

DjAlcon wrote:

I connected it to the rectifier, charging it for about 3 hours, the meter shows 13.11V.

Does it indicate with the charger connected or immediately after disconnecting the charger?

DjAlcon wrote:

converting it to the battery, how much can the car stand at rest so as not to go below the voltage of 11 [V] in the battery.

About two weeks with this current.
In your place, I would fully charge the battery (i.e. to 14.4 V) and then put it outside the car for 2 days and after these two days measure the voltage and try to start the car on this battery. If the engine does not start, the battery must be disposed of. If it works normally - then look for causes in the car's installation. By the way, what car is it? Maybe you have some receiver in it that turns on cyclically and draws a lot of current by killing the battery?

Xantix wrote:

About two weeks with this current.

I wanted him to count himself

Xantix wrote:

If I were you, I would fully charge the battery (i.e. to 14.4 V) and then put it outside the car for 2 days and after these two days measure the voltage and try to start the car on this battery.

I already posted my measurements somewhere but I will repeat faster than I can find the link.
1. New battery, 2. Six-year-old battery, both operational, both Centra Futura 64Ah. Initially charged with a current of approx. 5A and in the final phase (above 14.4V) with a current of 0.4A to a voltage above 14.7V.

voltage measurement after 12h: 1. = 13.09V --- 2. = 12.54V
voltage measurement after 96h: 1. = 12.96V --- 2. = 12.54V

actual capacity: 1.>60Ah --- 2.>30Ah (6A discharge current)

vodiczka wrote:

Xantix wrote:
If I were you, I would fully charge the battery (i.e. to 14.4 V) and then put it outside the car for 2 days and after these two days measure the voltage and try to start the car on this battery.
I already posted my measurements somewhere but I will repeat faster than I can find the link.
1. New battery, 2. Six-year-old battery, both operational, both Centra Futura 64Ah. Initially charged with a current of approx. 5A and in the final phase (above 14.4V) with a current of 0.4A to a voltage above 14.7V.

voltage measurement after 12h: 1. = 13.09V --- 2. = 12.54V
voltage measurement after 96h: 1. = 12.96V --- 2. = 12.54V

actual capacity: 1.>60Ah --- 2.>30Ah (6A discharge current)

I know, a friend once boasted that he had a 6-year-old Centra and that he replaced it even though it was relatively functional due to the fear of "sudden death" of the battery at the least appropriate moment (remember correctly? ). But what does this have to do with the author's battery?

vodiczka wrote:

Does it indicate with the charger connected or immediately after disconnecting the charger?

Immediately after disconnecting the rectifier, it showed 13.11 [V], I left the battery alone overnight and in the morning the measurement came out 12.70 [V].
After 3 hours of charging, it turned out (too short), despite the indication of 12.70 [V] in the morning, that the car started and went out immediately, it had to be pressed down on the accelerator pedal for a while to recharge.
In that case, what indicator will tell me that I have it well charged?? [V] no, maybe [A]??

Xantix wrote:

If I were you, I would fully charge the battery (i.e. to 14.4 V) and then put it outside the car for 2 days and after these two days measure the voltage and try to start the car on this battery. If the engine does not start, the battery must be disposed of. If it works normally - then look for causes in the car's installation. By the way, what car is it? Maybe you have some receiver in it that turns on cyclically and draws a lot of current by killing the battery?

I'll do that on the weekend, unplug the battery, charge it to 14.40 [V] and leave it at home.
The car is a used Lanosik (I need to find instructions with the electrical system, fuse layout) I have several types that can take current - e.g. radio, maybe a lamp, gas, probably not the evaporator controller, probably not working?.

DjAlcon wrote:

gas probably not the evaporator controller is not working?.

The gas installation seems to take something there, but these are not large values, the more that since it is a well-worn Lanos, you probably have an underdeveloped 1st or 2nd generation installation there.

DjAlcon wrote:

maybe a lamp

The light in the trunk comes to mind. I had such a case that the light was on all the time despite the closed trunk lid - this caused the battery to discharge after a longer stop.

hello, it seems that the battery has "went down" with the capacity (Ah).
The active mass flowed largely for good from the grids.
The fact that after charging it holds you a voltage of 12.7V does not mean anything
in terms of energy expenditure.
A short-circuit test should answer the question of whether to buy a new one.

Xantix wrote:

The light in the trunk comes to mind. I had such a case that the light was on all the time despite the closed trunk lid - this caused the battery to discharge after a longer stop.

I have to check, but sometimes I took off the rear part of the trunk and nothing seemed to me that with the lights closed.
Yes Lanos from 2002 - no power steering control unit, gas and starter plus lights, radio and speakers.
In the front door, one loudspeaker does not work, I unplugged it (maybe someday I will find a moment to install a new one) in the other, something plays poorly, on the "trunk cover" there are 2 loudspeakers mounted as I bought it, the owner installed it himself.
A strange affliction is when the rear window heating is turned on, the radio (not the original one) starts to lose range (since I have a car - RMF and Radio Maryja work, the rest do not).
This is not a car packed with electronics, so let's say here I can bury myself without fear that I will break something .

leotdipl wrote:

The fact that after charging it maintains a voltage of 12.7V does not mean anything from the point of view of energy expenditure.

You can expand your thought, if the devices in the car take 100[mA], then such an expense in such a battery loses 2.3 times faster (200[mA], 300[mA])

leotdipl wrote:

A short-circuit test should answer the question of whether to buy a new one.

I understand such a thing only in a specialized shop / workshop.
Active mass - that is, the battery is discharged to such an extent that it cannot be charged.

DjAlcon wrote:

A strange ailment is when the rear window heating is turned on, the radio (not the original one) starts to lose range (since I have a car).

Do you have an external radio antenna? Because in some cars, the resistance paths of the rear window heating were the receiving antenna of the radio. Perhaps for this reason, when you turn on the heating, you have a problem with the radio losing stations.

DjAlcon wrote:

This is not a car packed with electronics, so let's say here I can bury myself without fear that I will break something .

Yes it's true. More electric than electronic...

Xantix wrote:

More electric than electronic...

Yes, but it is enough that the radio is connected without a key and you have a problem.

Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:

Yes, but it is enough that the radio is connected without a key and you have a problem.

I guess it depends on what radio. I had it hooked up in the Opel without a plus after ignition and nothing bad happened. Fact, it was some old VW Gamma, but even when I left it on, it turned itself off after an hour...

Xantix wrote:

But what does this have to do with the author's battery?

When a friend suggested:

Xantix wrote:

and then he put it outside the car for 2 days and after these two days he measured the voltage

the author of the topic can compare the results In my opinion, a faster voltage drop to 12.5V may mean a higher battery self-discharge current.

DjAlcon wrote:

I'll do that on the weekend, unplug the battery, charge it to 14.40 [V] and leave it at home.

If possible, discharge it with a current of 6-10A to a voltage of 10.8V measured under load and determine its actual capacity.

DjAlcon wrote:

leotdipl wrote:
A short-circuit test should answer the question of whether to buy a new one.

I understand such a thing only in a specialized shop / workshop.

You can make a simplified assessment by measuring the voltage on the clamps at the time of starting. If it drops below 10V, it's not good, and below 9V the battery needs to be replaced.

So that's how the battery stood for 3 days in the car.
I made a measurement:
- At a standstill 12.30V.
- After activating the controls etc.: 11.60V.
- When starting the car for less than 1s: 10.60V.

DjAlcon wrote:

At a standstill 12.30V.

12.3 V is almost an empty battery (about 1/3 of the charge left).

DjAlcon wrote:

After activating the controls etc.: 11.60V.

This indicates a high internal resistance of the battery.
In general, it seems that the battery is barely alive and is likely to "death".

Xantix wrote:

12.3 V is almost an empty battery (about 1/3 of the charge left).

I doubt it, rather between 35% and 50% Almost empty is 12.0V.

DjAlcon wrote:

After activating the controls etc.: 11.60V.

This would show that it is closer to 35% and not 50%

DjAlcon wrote:

- When starting the car for less than 1s: 10.60V.

Pretty good here.

vodiczka wrote:

I dare doubt

And I can't. Because I read it

DjAlcon wrote:

At a standstill 12.30V.

and this

DjAlcon wrote:

After activating the controls etc.: 11.60V.

which led to the conclusion

Xantix wrote:

12.3 V is almost an empty battery (about 1/3 of the charge left).

Which my colleague later indirectly confirmed.
1/3 is otherwise 33% (up to 35%, therefore only 2 pp). Are we going to argue about a few percent?

I was looking for problems myself, I measured it and it was ok when I got an Opel for 2 days, 30 minutes of charging and then ok. I solved the problem by replacing the battery and do the same if you have the opportunity to borrow a battery from a friend for a few days and it will solve your doubts.
Hello, this method is probably the most effective.
P.S
Often there are people who do not use the car every day and seek help from them.

The car stood for about 60 hours as I measured - 12.30V (+ 100mA consumption at a standstill).
I have about 14km to work so I think that this distance will recharge enough to allow me to return .
Ok then, I'll drive it for a while and probably replace it in 2-3 months if it still works (2-year battery).

The only thing that surprises me is that it's a young battery.
The symptoms are identical to what I had.
Then it fell overnight short circuit on the cells after connecting the external one, it was not able to spin when I disconnected it and gave the external one perfectly.

Let it better embrace these 100mA of leakage current
This and the current battery will last another 2 years.