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Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting

adwlodar 9921 4
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  • #1 16585287
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Hello,

    at the outset, I would like to point out that I am not an electrician, but only interested in electrical engineering and teletechnical installations. Recently, the installation in the grandparents' house will be partially modernized: the old part of the house will remain unchanged (TN-C network type, zeroing), the new one will be separated and connected to the new TN-S receiving system.

    An electrician was hired to move the control and measurement system from the old part of the house to the outside. The work has been done, the tension in the house is there, but I have some comments that I would like to share with you and ask you to answer a few questions:

    In my opinion:
    1. Electrician split the PEN wire in the connector, and then in the old part of the house, he connected the N and PE conductors again, creating an "artificial PEN conductor". From what I understand, he introduced the working currents in the N conductor to the PE protective conductor, which is not allowed and undermines the idea of electric shock protection? Is it mentioned somewhere in the law, standards? [edit: I found studies by dr. Musiał, who writes about the stages of converting to TN-S type from TN-C] [ link How serious is this risk to humans?

    2. The electrician grounded the PEN conductor separation point at the entrance of the WLZ to the building - in the junction. The question for what? Since it was possible to ground the PEN conductor, in case of damage to the pole-house section, then the separation point should be made locally in the switchgear of the modernized TN - C - S installation.

    3. The cross-section of the selected cable (load) is also interesting - 6mm ^ 2. Assuming there are two families in the house and each has an oven, hob etc.
    4. Am I entitled to demand from the Electrician as-built documentation for such a "small job"? He also did not provide a measurement report.

    Additional questions:
    1. Can RCB protections malfunction in a TN - C - S installation that is downgraded to TN-C by reconnecting PE and N conductors?

    I attach some photos as well a schematic diagram of the installation made by me + in the lower part my proposed solution. Please, look and verify.

    Thank you in advance and best regards.

    Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting Partial Modernization of House Electrical Installation: Questions About PEN Wire Splitting
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  • #2 16585320
    PeCeZu
    Level 16  
    Let me start from the end a bit:
    adwlodar wrote:
    Additional questions:
    1. Can RCB protections malfunction in a TN - C - S installation that is downgraded to TN-C by reconnecting PE and N conductors?

    How he would do it behind the switch would be a problem and you wouldn't be able to turn it on if you did it before it doesn't matter for the differential.

    adwlodar wrote:
    4. Am I entitled to demand from the Electrician as-built documentation for such a "small job"? He also did not provide a measurement report.

    When undertaking such work, he should provide a measurement report with his SEP qualifications

    adwlodar wrote:
    3. The cross-section of the selected cable (load) is also interesting - 6mm ^ 2. Assuming there are two families in the house and each has an oven, hob etc.

    oven + CD = kuchania? maybe some values for calculations?

    adwlodar wrote:
    2. The electrician grounded the PEN conductor separation point at the entrance of the WLZ to the building - in the junction. The question for what? Since it was possible to ground the PEN conductor, in case of damage to the pole-house section, then the separation point should be made locally in the switchgear of the modernized TN - C - S installation.

    Each connector should have its own earth electrode

    adwlodar wrote:
    1. An electrician disconnected the PEN conductor in the connector, and then, in the old part of the house, he connected the N and PE conductors again, creating an "artificial PEN conductor". From what I understand, he introduced the working currents in the N conductor to the PE protective conductor, which is not allowed and undermines the idea of electric shock protection? Is it mentioned somewhere in the law, standards? How serious is this risk to humans?

    With such an installation you will not achieve miracles, on the other hand, in the connector, N and PE are connected to the earth electrode
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  • #3 16588665
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    PeCeZu wrote:
    Each connector should have its own earth electrode


    I do one thing, my colleague the other. I do not know what my colleague means when he says the connector - housing grounding, for example, because I am asking about the superiority of the magic grounding of the division points over the grounding of the protective-neutral conductor at the WLZ entrance to the building.

    PeCeZu wrote:
    With such an installation you will not achieve miracles, on the other hand, in the connector, N and PE are connected to the earth electrode


    And again the same. In my opinion, I asked a specific question, because I don't know the answer to it, and instead of trying to withhold pointless advice, you earn points for your posts.

    Thanks anyway for your willingness to help.
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  • #4 16588716
    marek-1983
    Level 17  
    adwlodar wrote:
    PeCeZu wrote:
    Each connector should have its own earth electrode


    I do one thing, my colleague the other. I do not know what my colleague means when he says the connector - housing grounding, for example, because I am asking about the superiority of the magic grounding of the division points over the grounding of the protective-neutral conductor at the WLZ entrance to the building.

    PeCeZu wrote:
    With such an installation you will not achieve miracles, on the other hand, in the connector, N and PE are connected to the earth electrode


    And again the same. In my opinion, I asked a specific question, because I don't know the answer to it, and instead of trying to withhold pointless advice, you earn points for your posts.

    Thanks anyway for your willingness to help.


    You wanted to take the earth electrode for the pole connector, which it does not and must not do if you want to have all installations and devices after a lightning strike in the lightning protection systems of the pole
  • #5 16588719
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    marek-1983 wrote:
    You wanted to take the earth electrode for the pole connector, which it does not and must not do if you want to have all installations and devices after a lightning strike in the lightning protection systems of the pole


    Absolutely not. We must have misunderstood each other. Of course, I wanted to make a dedicated earth electrode in the connector on the building. I just wanted to use them to ground the PEN conductor, not the split point.
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