Fiat Panda II: Fixing Flail Gearbox, Damaged Roller Bearing, & Sliding Clutch at 270,000km

Hello,

I would like to share information on how to deal with the "crushing" Fiat Panda 2 gearbox and then with the sliding clutch (in my case, first was the "crumbling" of the box and then slipping the clutch).

The gearbox was damaged due to the damaged roller bearing, which has 7 balls. It is the most delicate bearing of this car's box, although in my case it went up to 270,000. kilometers. It is located on the side of the gearbox housing, called the bell of the box, just at the exit of the shaft on the clutch disc. Damage to the bearing has its basket, which is made of plastic. The elements of this basket, therefore, are not so harmful to the work of the other elements of the box (its sprockets, synchronizers). I personally dismantled the entire gearbox to replace it. After checking the elements of the box (watchmaker's loupe): gears, synchronizers, including its remaining bearings, it turned out that they are in perfect condition and do not have to be replaced. Some experts, however, recommend replacing all bearings. In my opinion, there is no need to expose yourself to additional costs of repairing the box (the cost of all Fiat Panda gearbox bearings is about 700 to 800 PLN). The cost of damaged, in my chest, SKF bearing in ASO is about 100 PLN. And it is worth to put them on. There are such Polish production bearings with 8 balls and a plastic basket for about PLN 15 (most likely intended for the Fiat Seicento gearbox), but I do not recommend them. I watched both of these bearings under the watchmaker's magnifying glass and SKF is more accurately made and mounted. You can also set up a roller bearing of the French company SNR matching the Fiat Panda box, mounted, among others in boxes eg Fiat Doblo. Its cost is also about PLN 100, but it is supposedly more durable. I do not know how loud it would work in the box compared to the original ball, so I did not assume it.

The box was working loudly, because you could hear yourself bumping the bearings in which the basket was damaged. There were also metal rubbing noise from the metal coming from the friction of the shaft of the attacking roller against the metal part of the shaft's simering as a result of the play in the damaged bearing.

However, the proper reason for gearbox regeneration was the slipping clutch. The reason for this was getting onto the clutch disc of oil from the box by unsealed simering due to the beating of the shaft, which was the result of damage to the bearing, which was loose. It was impossible to drive. With such a slipping clutch, I passed a week until I started repairing. On the occasion of repairing the box, I exchanged all its simering and o-rings, simering the crankshaft from the clutch side (it was necessary to unscrew the flywheel) and replaced the clutch, ie clutch plate, impression and impression bearing. I exchanged the clutch in my car during this work for the first time since the news. Therefore, 270,000 traveled. kilometers and you could really ride it, because the clutch plate was quite well, the impression bearing was also, but the impression feathers were too much worn from the impression bearing. I've replaced the whole clutch. When replacing the gearbox selector, it is necessary to buy a wedge that broke in half when punching. It serves to attach in a suitable place the sliders of the selector, pushing the cradle of the crate, on the shaft / axis of the selector..

From my observations, during these works it appears that one could risk and not undress the entire gearbox, what is being done from the 5th gear in the dome. As I wrote above, the basket of the damaged bearing is made of plastic and, as a rule, its remains, even if they fell deeper into the chest, should not cause damage to other components - gears, synchronizers. There were all 7 balls in it - none of them disintegrated and did not threaten damage to other elements of the crate, and other bearings are massive. Also, despite the "crunching" of the box, the fact that its components (except for the mentioned damaged bearing and simering) are okay can be assumed after properly switching on (putting in) all the gears. Therefore, to get only to the mentioned, the most delicate, damaged bearing and oil permoring, it would be enough to unscrew the bell of the box and there are damaged parts available immediately for exchange, as on the palm of your hand. Of course, in this way we will not check the condition of the other elements of the chest and we will not rinse it thoroughly, but we will do less for it. Here I must point out that my chest was not so dirty inside that it would be necessary to clean it. The box requires external cleaning before it is dismantled. In this case, it would also not be necessary to replace counter nuts on both rollers, i.e. attacker and intermediate (cost 2 x 11 zlotys = 22 zlotys), twisting all gears, synchronizers and other bearings together so that they do not move because they would not be unscrewed. These nuts are in a sense one-off, because their sides are bent in two places so that they do not unscrew.
Here, I betray to unscrew the nuts that counter the shafts of the box, it should be locked both of them by throwing two gears. I did it with the gear selector removed.
By doing this repair, you do it at your own risk.
I emphasize here that I did not try to disassemble the chest from the side of the bell and I do not know if it is possible at all (I was just curious and undressed it all). I saw, however, a picture of the chest with its bell dismantled on one of the Forums. I give him a link:
http://fiatpunto.com.pl/post375002.html.
Speech is there about the Fiat Punto II, which is very similar to Fiat Panda. The picture shows a roller bearing on the shaft attacking from the side of the bell, with which I had a problem, only mine was ball. Link to the photo:
http://fiatpunto.com.pl/largeimg,IMG_4c0579837fe7f820.jpg.
In this case, during such disassembly, along with the bell of the chest would have to go out, bolted to it, a reverse gear stick, which would have to descend from the reverse gear rack and perhaps this back rack will come with it. In addition, the reverse slider would have to descend from the ball pusher, which is located on the axis of the other race sliders. I do not know how it would go, the reverse process, i.e. the assembly of the chest. I think, however, that it is worth a try and I personally would try to disassemble the chest (from the bell's side) during the next refurbishment.
When assembling the crate, I used a torque wrench and the screws, on the glue that prevents them from loosening, I tightened with the recommended moments.

The repair costs are less than PLN 500 - the same spare parts, including the entire Valeo clutch, simering (Corteco), O-rings, SKF bearing, counter nuts of both gear shafts, hub fixing nuts for the drive bolts, mass cable because I damaged it during disassembly and maybe something yet. The costs of repair do not include the purchase of tools in Biedronka, Lidl, Kaufland, Castorama, which I used during the repair. When I repair something myself, I allocate a part of the cash for the purchase of tools, because I do not pay for the repair service that I have done myself and are useful for the next.

I have not written anything yet about the dismantling and assembly of the box. I did these works under the house, next to the garage, without a channel! Yes, without channel !!! It's good that it was not raining! Everyone was surprised how I did it, I have a gentle belly, so to speak, and they wondered how I fit in under my car. And I raised it quite well in the front and put it on Lidl's trestles. I put one hydraulic jack with Biedronka under the oil sump of the engine. The second hydraulic lift from Biedronka is a chest. This second lift for the chest, you do not need it and you can do everything only one thing. Because Panda's chest is not that heavy, but you have to somehow protect it from falling down, it helped me with the help of a rope a little son who does the muscles in the gym. I unscrewed the appropriate bolts with the keys from Biedronka, Lidl, Kaufland and the chests pulled out from the left front wheel. First of all you had to unscrew the nuts holding the hubs to the driveshafts (here you need a massive key, because they are twisted 240 Nm torque and additionally baked, you need to hold the foot on the brake when unscrewing - I borrowed the key from the neighbor, but then I bought one myself) , wheels, bolts fixing shock absorbers to the hub mechanism (no other need to unscrew). Before extracting the driveshafts, drain the oil from the box so that it does not leak. After removing the outer joints of the semi-axles from the hubs, one should pull out the inner joints of the axle shaft from the box, eg with the side part of the wood chisel - that's what I did. The joints of the internal driveshafts leave the box without a problem. You do not need to download the gums of the joints here! Then the need was to disassemble the battery and the basket in which it is located. The built-in battery and basket facilitate access to the screws with which the box is bolted to the engine. Under the basket there is also a screw, which box with the engine is bolted by a rubber cushion to the engine compartment of the car body. The screw should also be removed. Do not forget to unscrew the screws from the chest lollipop, which is located underneath the car. The chest lollipop is one of the three elements that fix the entire engine with the gearbox to the car's body on the rubber (the engine leg is the last of these three elements, I mentioned the box cushion earlier). After unscrewing the bolts burning the engine box, do not forget to secure the starter, which is kept only on the power cables, so as not to get hit by them. The starter does not need to be completely removed, it can be placed on the suspension elements. Installation should be carried out in reverse order for disassembly and here I used torque wrenches purchased in Castorama and Kaufland when turning.

After repair the car works as if it has just left the salon.

I would like to point out here that I did this work alone (with the delicate help of my son and my closest friend) and for the first time in my life and it was possible thanks to the numerous information on the Internet forums..in. also on Elektrodzie. I did not ask any mechanics about how to do it. And here I can write that I acquired, through this repair, in a sense the skills (powers) of a motor vehicle mechanic, although I am not a profession of it, of which I am very happy and satisfied.

If I helped someone with my subject, please click on this post: "Helpful post?" at the top of the text on the left, possibly with a gift of a point. Pressing "Helpful post?" you only charge 0.2 points.

greetings
jbek
Pictures of my chest:

Very helpful fast, best regards

hello I confirm you can replace the bearing by unscrewing only the bell of the chest with the selector. Much less work we unscrew only the left wheel, the lid of the box and the attachment of the clutch cable. you don't even have to touch polosi. the only problem is only during assembly with this reverse closure inside the box but you can this is to go through. Best regards fiat panda1.2 year 2011

Hello, where did you buy the seals for this box, or did you cut them yourself and what moments did you tighten the clamp and other elements, you can write here, and so the post is very helpful

To seal the gearbox, while assembling it, I used the original high-temperature silicone gasket number: 71753861 purchased from an Authorized Service Center (it's just high-temperature silicone in a tube - like toothpaste).
The tightening torques for the screws of the Fiat Panda gearbox were taken from the Internet and based on the Fiat Punto II C514 gearbox (I also found a few tightening torques for the Fiat Panda):
- fastening of the bracket for the reverse lever: 15 Nm,
- 5th gear fork mounting: 12 Nm,
- nuts fixing gears of 5th gear on the clutch shaft and main shaft: 118 Nm,
- 5th gear cover mounting: 12 Nm,
- gear cover mounting: 20 Nm,
- oil filler cap: 36 Nm,
- oil drain plug: 22 Nm,
also:
- flywheel mounting bolts: 44 Nm (I unscrewed them because I replaced the oil seal),
- clamping bolts: 25 Nm,
- bolts securing the gearbox to the engine: 80 Nm,
- starter mounting bolts: 27 Nm,
- hub knuckle mounting bolts to the shock absorber socket: 75 Nm,
- driveshaft nuts: 240 Nm,
- bolts for fixing steel rims: 86 Nm,
- aluminum rim mounting bolts: 98 Nm.
I secured practically all bolts of the box against unscrewing with blue glue. I used the red locking bolt glue to tighten the flywheel.

best regards
jbek

Hello. I didn't want to start a new topic because this one is very similar and the solution can be useful as a development. Encouraged by your awesome description, I decided to "renovate" my gearbox. I unscrewed the bell and separated it from the whole box by unscrewing the two screws inside. Unfortunately, the bearing is smaller and easily accessible, it is ok. The damaged one is the big one under the gear that enters the differential, on the left side below ? Yes normally, i.e. forward, it will unfortunately not go down (inner diameter is smaller than the gear) ? You probably need to remove the whole shaft and remove all its components one by one and remove the bearing to the rear and reassemble in the reverse order. I hope I'm wrong and there's an easier way to do this. If anyone has any experience or ideas, please help because the car is on wheels and winter is just around the corner.
P.S
I don't know how to give up points so that I don't collect points looking for help, I will give all points to the person who helps ?

It should be done as you wrote: "You probably need to remove the entire shaft and remove all its elements one by one and remove the bearing to the back and reassemble in the reverse order." There is no other alternative. You will have to dismantle the chest, as I did and described in the topic above. Then you will have to use a hydraulic press and bearing pullers to remove the damaged bearing and shaft components and reassemble them.

Regards
jbek

And I was hoping that I could do without it ? One question - if I unscrew these nuts at the back, pull the rollers forward with the selectors or somehow selectors first, and then the rollers ? Maybe a stupid question but I don't want to spoil something and I don't want something to fall out and I don't know where from

In my opinion, disassembly of the gearbox from the side of its bell can be attempted only when we are 100% sure that only the smallest bearing of the attacking shaft is damaged (advantages of this method of disassembling the gearbox: you can easily and quickly replace the damaged small bearing of this shaft and less work, disadvantages: you will not check the condition of the other elements of the box). Otherwise, it is best to dismantle the gearbox from its other side, i.e. from the steel cover of the fifth gear gearbox. In your case, I would advise you to put the gearbox back together and disassemble it, as I indicated in the previous sentence, from the steel cover of the fifth gear gearbox. It must be remembered that the nuts securing the 5th gears on the shafts are tightened with a large torque and to unscrew them, you must first lock both shafts against each other, and then apply yourself to the wrench. Due to this procedure, it is important that the box is in its entirety (the bell and the middle casing of the box are screwed together). By disassembling the gearbox in this way, it will be easier to remember the reverse order of its assembly. If you disassemble the gearbox from its bell, and then from the steel cover of the fifth gear gearbox, you will most likely not know how to put it back together. In this case, to assemble the box, you will have to use the service manual of the car, or give it to a person who already has experience in repairing it. Once you unscrew the nuts of the shafts securing the gears of the 5th gear, you will pull out these shafts together with the selectors, after removing the middle part of the gearbox housing, of course. However, you must first unscrew one screw on the side of this housing, which holds the axis of the reverse gear mode (if I remember correctly, because I dismantled my Panda's gearbox a long time ago - 5 years ago, and the car after my regeneration of the gearbox is still running and has already driven 370 thousand km). In addition, you also need to remove the retaining rings from the bearings, with which the shafts are mounted to the steel middle plate of the gearbox housing (the plate and the retaining rings can be seen in the last photo of this topic, they are on a table against the wall). A hydraulic press can be used to empty the shaft of its components to remove the damaged bearing. Recently, when I was replacing the bearings in the M32 gearbox of my second car, Fiat Bravo II, I bought a 30-ton press (PLN 1,500) especially, because without it I would not have been able to deal with this problem. The use of a hydraulic press can be very helpful in disassembly and assembly of bearings and shaft components. Especially when you have to dismantle the entire main shaft, which is the case in your case, where the bearing you failed in the Panda gearbox is at the very bottom of the shaft, with its mode cooperating with the differential gear mode. Note here, when disassembling the shaft elements, it is very important which mode to grab to pull it all together. Grasping the wrong gear during removal can lead to damage to some of the shaft's dismounted elements, especially since its individual elements can be locked onto it with the appropriate snap rings, which must be removed with the appropriate pliers (these snap rings are similar to the ones I mentioned earlier, but have a smaller diameter matched to the shaft). I do not know how to catch the individual modes when removing them from the shaft, because I did not do it when repairing my Panda's gearbox (I dismantledand I dressed "Christmas trees" - shafts, of my Fiat Bravo II), because it was the bearing that failed you, I didn't have to replace it. You need to look on the Internet about which part of the shaft you need to grip properly to get everything off it. If you do not find such information, in your place I would try to carefully grasp the individual elements of the roller and pull them off sensitively so as not to damage them. It should be remembered that only the modes of individual gears are firmly mounted on the shaft on the spline, the rest slides freely. A puller may also be needed to remove the gears and synchronizers from the shaft. The hydraulic press, however, will be very helpful when installing a new bearing, as well as other elements of the shaft, previously removed. It ensures smooth sliding of elements onto the shaft. If it is not possible to use it, the only option is to beat it with a hammer using properly prepared bushings, and this may not end well for the shaft elements that are mounted back - they can be damaged.

Regards
jbek

The chest dismantled, the "Christmas tree" dismantled. The press is not needed, a stronger puller is enough and pliers are needed to remove the rings because there are two. You don't need to block the shafts to unscrew, an impact wrench is enough. I bent the nut protections with a suitable screwdriver. The disassembly went relatively smoothly but putting it all together can be quite a challenge but I have a lot of photos. The bearing will come, there will be assembly ?

However, I would advise using a hydraulic press to dress the "Christmas tree" (roller). If you don't have it, I think you can always count on your good friends who can lend it to you.

Regards
jbek

Christmas tree folded. I used the press to press the bearings in because they are not cheap, besides, it must work as long as possible. Tomorrow I will have seals for the shaft, selector and axle shafts, I will put the box together and install it. It should be dry and quiet.
I will use the moments for torsion of the box from your description. You've done a great job ?