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Change to LED lamps, or skip the starter and magnetic ballast

magnus27 45774 32
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #1 16887913
    magnus27
    Level 13  
    Hello
    I have luminaires with 2x36 W fluorescent lamps. I want to replace them with 18W T8 LED fluorescent lamps powered from one side. I have 2 magnetic ballasts in the housing. I know that I do not have to modify the luminaires, it is enough to replace the starters for the LED systems. Is it better to omit the magnetic ballast and the starter by connecting the 230 V power supply directly to the lamp legs. I heard that ballast and starter can consume more power. Is it true ?
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  • #2 16887944
    niewolno2
    Level 40  
    What does the manufacturer of these LED light sources provide?
  • #3 16887970
    Xantix
    Level 41  
    magnus27 wrote:
    and all you need is the replacement of starters for led systems.

    LED circuits do not need any starters.

    magnus27 wrote:
    Is it better to ignore the magnetic ballast and starter by connecting the 230 V power supply directly to the legs of the fluorescent lamp. S

    Not "better" but you have to skip it if it works properly.
  • #4 16887976
    magnus27
    Level 13  
    The manufacturer states that it can be mounted using a starter for LED systems. Only with luminaires with a capacitor can energy consumption be higher.
  • #5 16890330
    Wawrzyniec
    Level 38  
    Since LEDs require starters?
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  • #6 16890387
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    magnus27 wrote:
    I want to replace them with T8 18W LED fluorescent lamps powered on one side. I have 2 magnetic ballasts in the frame. I know that I do not have to modify the luminaires and all you need is the replacement of starters for led systems. Is it better to ignore the magnetic ballast and starter by connecting the 230 V power supply directly to the legs of the fluorescent lamp. I've heard that ballast and starter can cause higher energy consumption.


    I invite you to read -> https://www.kingled.pl/blog/Montaz_opraw_t8/
  • #7 17706520
    zett1
    Level 15  
    Well, I invite you to see this drawing. The so-called "starter for LED fluorescent lamps is added by better companies to each fluorescent lamp, it allows that there is absolutely no need to change anything in the wiring of the luminaire. Which means saving time and money, if, for example, we change all traditional fluorescent lamps to" LED ", e.g. in 10 floors "Starter" because it usually looks the same as a traditional starter, plastic housing, fits into the starter socket. What does it contain? Varistors? Costs a few zlotys, just enter "led starter in the search engine. And that the name does not fit, well, "LED bulb", like "LED fluorescent lamp" or worse, "halogen LED" - sucks too ;) . You just have to remember about the correct insertion of the fluorescent lamp, i.e. the part with the electronics inside in the right direction (in the picture - right).
    Change to LED lamps, or skip the starter and magnetic ballast
    I haven't stripped it down yet ;)
  • #8 17706577
    tomaszmruz
    Level 19  
    In some so-called "starters" is a jumper or a fuse.
  • #9 17706590
    karolark
    Level 42  
    zett1 wrote:
    Well, I invite you to view this drawing. The so-called "starter for led fluorescent lamps" is added by better companies to each fluorescent lamp, which allows that you do not need to change anything in the wiring of the luminaire. Which means saving time and money, if, for example, we change all traditional fluorescent lamps to "LED" e.g. in a 10-story office building. "Starter" because it usually looks identical to a traditional starter, plastic housing, fits into the starter socket. Which contains? Varistors? It costs a few zl, just type "led starter in the search engine. And that the name does not match, well," led bulb ", like" led fluorescent "or worse," halogen led "- they also suck ;) .
    Change to LED lamps, or skip the starter and magnetic ballast I haven't undressed it yet ;)


    Not removing the ballast - how to whip the LED :cry:
  • #10 17706598
    zett1
    Level 15  
    Diagram on the part of the distributor. If in this starter we find an ordinary jumper ... well, probably there are also such inventions.
  • #11 17706606
    karolark
    Level 42  
    zett1 wrote:
    Slaughter is prevented by the mentioned starter, and the diagram by the distributor.


    And what does a ballast in a fluorescent lamp and what does it do with voltage in the circuit?
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  • #14 17706637
    zett1
    Level 15  
    He knows, and? ..............................
  • #15 17706641
    karolark
    Level 42  
    zett1 wrote:
    know and? ..............................


    So why does he paste the link with the starter?
  • #16 17706654
    zett1
    Level 15  
    Ok, tomorrow in the warehouse at 8 am I will buy an 18W LED lamp with such a starter in the set, put it in the place of the usual, put in place of the "normal" starter the one attached to the new LED lamp, turn the power on and off 20 times and ... I will speak . I admit that I haven't had these starters in my hand yet, but I believe in the distributor's info, because why not .....

    Added after 1 [minutes]:

    He puts the link on it because some people don't believe in the existence of such a thing (beginning of the thread)
    As I mentioned - tomorrow in the warehouse I will stock up and talk to the gentlemen about this disconnection of the ballast, in the end they give a 3-year warranty on such a "set".

    Added after 16 [minutes]:

    https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2550714.html
    And then the next question arose
    = only double-sided led tubes work with such starters

    Added after 15 [hours] 7 [minutes]:

    Ok, so I replaced the fluorescent lamp. From the luminaire containing 36W traditional fluorescent lamp, ballast, starter and sockets - the fluorescent lamp and traditional starter were removed. An 18W T8 LED fluorescent lamp was inserted, an element called LED TUBE fuser was attached to the starter socket ;) Nothing else was done, the fluorescent lamp shines beautifully, turned on and off several dozen times in a few hours.
    So to sum up: the element called "starter for LED" is a protection in the housing and with the legs of a typical starter (igniter). There is a 2A fuse inside my. Which, moreover, perfectly reflects its name on the box that I gave ;)

    On the leaflet attached to the fluorescent lamp (Spectrum LED Wojnarowscy) There is the following recommendation when replacing the fluorescent lamp in the luminaire I described: to save more energy, bridge the magnetic ballast (ballast) and disconnect the capacitor, the presence of a compensating capacitor can cause a significant increase in reactive energy consumption. THIS RECOMMENDATION.
    If we have an electronic ballast - of course, as we know, the case looks quite different, We need to power the fluorescent lamp on one side, cables straight from the network.
    The warehouse clerk claimed that there was a jumper in this "led starter", he partly lost the bet ;) . He also claimed that without interfering with the ballast, the fluorescent lamp would burn or not light (that I would not mention a similar statement from a colleague above) - he was also wrong. In addition - despite the fact that it is powered from one side - the fluorescent lamp in the system that I described can be inserted freely. There is a bridge on one side of the lamp, a short circuit between the legs. Thanks to this, through this bridge and the fuse (the "fuse" mentioned above) the power legs of the fluorescent lamps get both L and N.
    It remains to measure how much energy less the luminaire will consume without a capacitor and ballast, but it's tomorrow.
  • #17 17707802
    lukiiiii
    Level 29  
    zett1 wrote:
    an element called LED TUBE fuser attached to the starter socket



    Such a myk does not add this miracle: you take the usual starter, open it, and twist your fingers bimetal making a short circuit.
  • #18 17708084
    HD-VIDEO
    Level 43  
    lukiiiii wrote:
    you take the usual starter, open it, and twist the bimetal squares making a short circuit.


    It is possible that this "LED starter" is a purposeful additional protection in the form of a fuse, and a short circuit will not do that.

    These LED staters were created to quickly replace the fluorescent lamp in the old luminaire with the "LED fluorescent lamp" without dismantling the old magnetic ballast, when the "LED fluorescent lamp" has the same power supply as the fluorescent lamp, i.e. from both ends and via a bimetallic starter.
  • #19 17708653
    zett1
    Level 15  
    Right, extra security. And with this mouse - it's probably obvious that the (functional) fuse works as a jumper :) And the bimetal is in a glass bubble, it's difficult to "twist" it ;) . Of course, I understand the intention, we twist what's inside the starter. Unless we break the wires.
    The second thing - this element is needed only if you do not want to modify the connections in the luminaire and only with fluorescent lamps having power outlets on one side. It serves to "transfer" the missing power pole to the other side of the lamp, being in line with the jumper built into one end of the lamp.
  • #20 18266613
    janusz-szcz
    Level 10  
    zett1,

    Thanks a lot for the experience with LED assembly without any modification.
    I bought such LED tubes in a set with "starters" and I was shocked because I was going to modify the connections in the housing for direct, bypassing the ballast and starter socket, and the manufacturer did not attach any information about this "starter".

    Did you do - as planned - energy consumption measurements with LED connected with and without ballast ???
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  • #21 18278838
    zett1
    Level 15  
    Probably a year ago I tried to check the difference in energy consumption with and without a choke (ballast). A popular orno watt meter for a few days - I didn't notice the difference. Maybe in the long run .....
    Anyway ... bypassing the ballast is so quick and easy that it doesn't hurt to do it (jumper or placing one of the cables "next to" in the same clamp as the neighboring one), without removing the ballast from the housing ...
  • #22 18285270
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    magnus27 wrote:
    I have luminaires with 2x36 W fluorescent lamps. I want to replace them with T8 18W LED fluorescent lamps powered from one side.


    It's strange because I replace LEDs with fluorescent lamps. 3 years can not stand picked, where 20 years fluorescent lamps with a hook shone.
  • #23 18285320
    BikeBarian
    Level 24  
    Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:
    magnus27 wrote:
    I have luminaires with 2x36 W fluorescent lamps. I want to replace them with T8 18W LED fluorescent lamps powered on one side.


    It is strange, because I replace leds for 3 years fluorescent lamps, they do not withstand plucked, where 20 years of fluorescent lamps with a hook shone.


    Somewhere these 18W heat must be dissipated and in such "LED fluorescent lamp" there is nowhere so it rains after all ... after all, it is usually led strips and how to look at lumens vs lumens, at 18W there are 2x less in LED fluorescent lamps ... for me no benefit ... I save 2x at the expense of 2x less light .... I could as well remove one fluorescent lamp. There is nothing to discuss about prices.
  • #24 18285369
    Zbigniew 400
    Level 38  
    This is a fake. LEDs have the same efficiency / typical / as fluorescent lamps. So savings are out of the question.
  • #25 18300269
    Zenek
    Level 30  
    @Bikebariam, let's take a simple comparison of parameters and prices of what could be mounted and what was installed in a medium-sized company: (about 500 fluorescent lamps)
    Osram 18W fluorescent lamp: 1300 lumens (73 lm / W), price PLN 4.30, ballast: PLN 12, starter PLN 1, total price PLN 17.30.
    9W LED fluorescent lamp: 900 lumens (900 lm (100lm / W) price ... PLN 8

    The power of lighting installed in the company is 4.5 kW less.
    Unless you're writing about lighting your desk ;)

    I would forget: maybe you have heard - some types of "fluorescent" LEDs do not "flicker" with the frequency of the network, which is an inherent feature of traditional fluorescent lamps (we are talking about the fitting for a single 18W fluorescent lamp). What for those working under those, e.g. after 8 hours for 5 days of the week - is not indifferent to their eyesight.
    And finally - today produced led fluorescent lamps and those from 3-4 years ago .... it is not the same. If, of course, we don't care about cheap sunbeds.
  • #26 18300326
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    Zenek wrote:
    The power of lighting installed in the company is 4.5 kW less.

    And how much reactive power does the LED consume?
    Zenek wrote:
    they don't flicker


    As the lighting is 5m above the floor and powered from different phases it does not matter.

    Zenek wrote:
    currently produced led fluorescent lamps and those from 3-4 years ago .... it is not the same.


    You have to take 1 and check before buying, because it is now a lottery.
  • #27 18300330
    Zbigniew 400
    Level 38  
    I wonder if the lighting control will accept the lighting level. Because replacing an 18 W fluorescent lamp with a 9 W LED results in a significant reduction in lighting. After such a change in the warehouse, the inspector did not accept this solution.
  • #28 18300476
    czesiu
    Level 37  
    zett1 wrote:

    So to sum up: the element called "starter for LED" is a protection in the housing and with the legs of a typical starter (igniter). There is a 2A fuse inside my. Which, moreover, perfectly reflects its name on the box, which I gave ;)

    They add a "almost" fuse to ledadvance lamps.
    Change to LED lamps, or skip the starter and magnetic ballast
  • #29 18300544
    kierbedz4
    Level 36  
    By mounting the LED fluorescent lamp to an ordinary fluorescent lamp, you can easily leave the magnetic ballast and start the above lamp without opening it from the housing. You only need to remove the igniter and by disassembling the igniter remove the neon lamp with the condenser and both ends coming out of the igniter housing turn together making the jumper and solder. after reassembling the igniter housing, reinstall it in the lamp housing.
  • #30 18300894
    Zenek
    Level 30  
    @ Srrumień consciousness- LED light sources and reactive power, yes, this is an important topic, probably on another, extensive topic. Companies should require information from the supplier of lighting fittings, which power factor cos? characterizes their product, and if necessary use matching compensators.
    @czesiu, why "almost" .... It's a real fuse ;)
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Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the replacement of 2x36 W fluorescent lamps with 18W T8 LED lamps in luminaires that currently use magnetic ballasts and starters. Users debate whether to retain the magnetic ballast and starter or bypass them by connecting the LED lamps directly to the power supply. It is noted that LED circuits do not require starters, and while some manufacturers provide LED-compatible starters, they may not be necessary if the ballast is removed. Concerns about energy consumption and efficiency are raised, with some users suggesting that bypassing the ballast could lead to energy savings. However, others caution that LED lamps may not provide the same light output as traditional fluorescent lamps, and the effectiveness of LED replacements can vary based on specific applications and configurations.
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