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Understanding Three-Phase Installation Operation: 400V vs 230V, Induction Cookers, and Wiring

rafik54321 31083 15
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  • #1 16915303
    rafik54321
    Level 30  
    Hello.
    I have a few doubts whether I understand correctly the principle of operation of a three-phase installation.
    With single phase it is straight, blue is neutral, green and yellow is ground and the other color is 230V phase.

    At the outset, I will say that I mainly rely on this scheme.
    https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6007955400_1346959155.jpeg

    There are 5 wires, blue is zero, green and yellow is ground and the rest are phases.
    I understand that. However, the so-called "strength" is a voltage of 400V. From what I have deduced, it is as if 3 phases together give 400V, and each phase separately is 230V. And taking a single phase, it can be treated as a single-phase installation (i.e. connected to 230V sockets, etc.). And generally, these phases are interchangeable (so long as not to bridge them). Am I wrong?

    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases to be connected, and the third one to connect to the neutral wire, but would the fuses not work then?

    I do not fully understand the principle of operation of this installation and it is hard to read something more specific.
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  • #2 16915313
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    rafik54321 wrote:
    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases and the third one to be connected to a neutral conductor

    Give a specific example, the model of the oven, the diagram.
  • #4 16915327
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    rafik54321 wrote:
    and the third to connect with a neutral conductor

    Indicate in the diagram that the L3 phase is connected to the N terminal.
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  • #5 16915335
    Topolski Mirosław
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    rafik54321 wrote:

    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases to be connected, and the third one to connect with a neutral conductor, however, would not the fuses be fired then?
    I do not quite understand the principle of this installation and it's hard to read something more concrete.

    Nothing like that on the diagram you have presented.
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  • Helpful post
    #6 16915341
    stanislaw1954
    Level 43  
    In the current nomenclature (nomenclature) blue is N-neutral, and yellow-green is PE. For a layman, you can assume that this is grounding.
    rafik54321 wrote:
    However, the so-called "force" is 400V.
    Measuring between each (separately) of phase conductors (color other than blue and yellow-green), and blue voltage is 230 V, but measuring between two phase conductors (eg L1-L2, or L1-L3 or L2-L3) from this diagram, the voltage will be 400 V. [quote = "rafik54321"] and the third to connect with the neutral wire, [/ quoteTu misunderstood - connect two phases, the third do not connect. But we also need to connect N in the right place and of course protection, or PE.
  • #7 16915345
    rafik54321
    Level 30  
    It is not about the fact that the installation scheme (ie the first post) was exactly the same as in the oven diagram (ie from my second post).

    Rather, it should be treated as separate issues regarding the same installation.

    Let's say five wires stick out of the wall. 3 phases in different colors, zero and grounding. The last two are very easy, it is also easy to connect L1 and L2 (if all phases are interchangeable), but what about L3? Where does the entry about the L3 and zero connection come from? I do not understand that. And such an entry was in the vicinity of the oven pattern and it seemed absurd to me, so I ask.

    Now a separate issue. If I have a three-phase system, and I need 230V power, eg for a computer, is it enough that I take any phase? Is the topic more complex.
  • #8 16915357
    anarkh
    Level 13  
    In the second case, the "power" third phase remains unused. However, the terminal 3 and 4 should be bridged in the oven. So many theories. In practice, you should call a "professional" because, as in any instruction for this type of device, it is written that the connection should be entrusted to a qualified electrician. And that's what I propose to stick to.
  • #9 16915358
    karolark
    Level 42  
    rafik54321 wrote:
    but what about L3? Where does the entry about the L3 and zero connection come from?


    Nothing, instead of 3 phase, you connect N
  • #10 16915361
    Topolski Mirosław
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    It is said that you connect N to terminal 3 and not to L3.
  • Helpful post
    #11 16915364
    stanislaw1954
    Level 43  
    rafik54321 wrote:
    If I have a three-phase system, and I need 230V power, eg for a computer, is it enough that I take any phase?
    That's how it's done. In the switchgear, "any" phase is taken and N (zero), (the name depends on the type of network) and we have 230 V.
  • #12 16915373
    rafik54321
    Level 30  
    I know, I understand that the schematic is that two phases are connected and the third oil is connected (no plugs are connected, and it is best to insulate it). This is how I understand and make sense. I mean an absurd note that was under the diagram.
    But I understand that it was a kit.
    This aspect can be ended.

    Now the question is whether to make a 230V installation in an apartment, for example, you can use whatever phase or should you use a specific one?

    I'm asking because I just prefer to know how the installation works in my house, which is possible, which is not possible. And as for the electricians' professionalism - I will leave without comment. I've seen a situation where 3/4 of the installations were "hung" on a 0.75mm2 cable, so I'd rather educate myself and know if the electrician will be kumaty or not.
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  • #13 16915382
    karolark
    Level 42  
    At the bottom it is no putty but a description of the former RST phase marking
    Do you take something that you have no idea about, the next hero in the yard?
  • Helpful post
    #14 16915389
    stanislaw1954
    Level 43  
    rafik54321 wrote:
    Now the question is whether to make a 230V installation in an apartment, for example, you can use whatever phase or should you use a specific one?
    In principle, everyone, but sometimes happens, that the measurements come out, that the neighbors use L1 and L3 more, it is logical that we use the less loaded L2
  • #15 16915403
    rafik54321
    Level 30  
    Ok, that's all I'm saying. Thanks stanislaw1954 because only you commented on the syntax and topic.

    The rest is "thank you".
    The topic can be closed.
  • #16 16915409
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    rafik54321 wrote:
    I saw a situation where 3/4 of the installation was "hung" on a 0.75mm2 cable

    Certainly not by an electrician. It's just like a road traffic participant just because he has a driving license to call a driver.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the principles of three-phase electrical installations, specifically the differences between 400V and 230V systems, and the connection of induction cookers. Participants clarify that in a three-phase system, each phase provides 230V, while the combined voltage between any two phases is 400V. The wiring scheme includes three phase wires, a neutral (blue), and a ground (green/yellow). There is confusion regarding the connection of the third phase (L3) and its relationship with the neutral wire when connecting appliances like induction cookers. It is emphasized that for 230V power, any phase can be used, but it is advisable to connect to the least loaded phase to balance the load. The importance of consulting a qualified electrician for installations is also highlighted.
Summary generated by the language model.
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