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Understanding Three-Phase Installation Operation: 400V vs 230V, Induction Cookers, and Wiring

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  • #1 16915303
    rafik54321
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    Hello.
    I have a few doubts whether I understand correctly the principle of operation of a three-phase installation.
    With single phase it is straight, blue is neutral, green and yellow is ground and the other color is 230V phase.

    At the outset, I will say that I mainly rely on this scheme.
    https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6007955400_1346959155.jpeg

    There are 5 wires, blue is zero, green and yellow is ground and the rest are phases.
    I understand that. However, the so-called "strength" is a voltage of 400V. From what I have deduced, it is as if 3 phases together give 400V, and each phase separately is 230V. And taking a single phase, it can be treated as a single-phase installation (i.e. connected to 230V sockets, etc.). And generally, these phases are interchangeable (so long as not to bridge them). Am I wrong?

    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases to be connected, and the third one to connect to the neutral wire, but would the fuses not work then?

    I do not fully understand the principle of operation of this installation and it is hard to read something more specific.
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  • #2 16915313
    Krzysztof Reszka
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases and the third one to be connected to a neutral conductor

    Give a specific example, the model of the oven, the diagram.
  • #4 16915327
    Krzysztof Reszka
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    and the third to connect with a neutral conductor

    Indicate in the diagram that the L3 phase is connected to the N terminal.
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  • #5 16915335
    Topolski Mirosław
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
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    rafik54321 wrote:

    I was also interested in a rather strange entry regarding the connection of an induction cooker.
    Specifically - induction hobs usually require only two phases to be connected, and the third one to connect with a neutral conductor, however, would not the fuses be fired then?
    I do not quite understand the principle of this installation and it's hard to read something more concrete.

    Nothing like that on the diagram you have presented.
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  • Helpful post
    #6 16915341
    stanislaw1954
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    In the current nomenclature (nomenclature) blue is N-neutral, and yellow-green is PE. For a layman, you can assume that this is grounding.
    rafik54321 wrote:
    However, the so-called "force" is 400V.
    Measuring between each (separately) of phase conductors (color other than blue and yellow-green), and blue voltage is 230 V, but measuring between two phase conductors (eg L1-L2, or L1-L3 or L2-L3) from this diagram, the voltage will be 400 V. [quote = "rafik54321"] and the third to connect with the neutral wire, [/ quoteTu misunderstood - connect two phases, the third do not connect. But we also need to connect N in the right place and of course protection, or PE.
  • #7 16915345
    rafik54321
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    It is not about the fact that the installation scheme (ie the first post) was exactly the same as in the oven diagram (ie from my second post).

    Rather, it should be treated as separate issues regarding the same installation.

    Let's say five wires stick out of the wall. 3 phases in different colors, zero and grounding. The last two are very easy, it is also easy to connect L1 and L2 (if all phases are interchangeable), but what about L3? Where does the entry about the L3 and zero connection come from? I do not understand that. And such an entry was in the vicinity of the oven pattern and it seemed absurd to me, so I ask.

    Now a separate issue. If I have a three-phase system, and I need 230V power, eg for a computer, is it enough that I take any phase? Is the topic more complex.
  • #8 16915357
    anarkh
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    In the second case, the "power" third phase remains unused. However, the terminal 3 and 4 should be bridged in the oven. So many theories. In practice, you should call a "professional" because, as in any instruction for this type of device, it is written that the connection should be entrusted to a qualified electrician. And that's what I propose to stick to.
  • #9 16915358
    karolark
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    but what about L3? Where does the entry about the L3 and zero connection come from?


    Nothing, instead of 3 phase, you connect N
  • #10 16915361
    Topolski Mirosław
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    It is said that you connect N to terminal 3 and not to L3.
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    #11 16915364
    stanislaw1954
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    If I have a three-phase system, and I need 230V power, eg for a computer, is it enough that I take any phase?
    That's how it's done. In the switchgear, "any" phase is taken and N (zero), (the name depends on the type of network) and we have 230 V.
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  • #12 16915373
    rafik54321
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    I know, I understand that the schematic is that two phases are connected and the third oil is connected (no plugs are connected, and it is best to insulate it). This is how I understand and make sense. I mean an absurd note that was under the diagram.
    But I understand that it was a kit.
    This aspect can be ended.

    Now the question is whether to make a 230V installation in an apartment, for example, you can use whatever phase or should you use a specific one?

    I'm asking because I just prefer to know how the installation works in my house, which is possible, which is not possible. And as for the electricians' professionalism - I will leave without comment. I've seen a situation where 3/4 of the installations were "hung" on a 0.75mm2 cable, so I'd rather educate myself and know if the electrician will be kumaty or not.
  • #13 16915382
    karolark
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    At the bottom it is no putty but a description of the former RST phase marking
    Do you take something that you have no idea about, the next hero in the yard?
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    #14 16915389
    stanislaw1954
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    Now the question is whether to make a 230V installation in an apartment, for example, you can use whatever phase or should you use a specific one?
    In principle, everyone, but sometimes happens, that the measurements come out, that the neighbors use L1 and L3 more, it is logical that we use the less loaded L2
  • #15 16915403
    rafik54321
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    Ok, that's all I'm saying. Thanks stanislaw1954 because only you commented on the syntax and topic.

    The rest is "thank you".
    The topic can be closed.
  • #16 16915409
    Krzysztof Reszka
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    rafik54321 wrote:
    I saw a situation where 3/4 of the installation was "hung" on a 0.75mm2 cable

    Certainly not by an electrician. It's just like a road traffic participant just because he has a driving license to call a driver.

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the principles of three-phase electrical installations, specifically the differences between 400V and 230V systems, and the connection of induction cookers. Participants clarify that in a three-phase system, each phase provides 230V, while the combined voltage between any two phases is 400V. The wiring scheme includes three phase wires, a neutral (blue), and a ground (green/yellow). There is confusion regarding the connection of the third phase (L3) and its relationship with the neutral wire when connecting appliances like induction cookers. It is emphasized that for 230V power, any phase can be used, but it is advisable to connect to the least loaded phase to balance the load. The importance of consulting a qualified electrician for installations is also highlighted.
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FAQ

TL;DR: In 3‑phase systems you measure 400 V phase‑to‑phase and 230 V phase‑to‑neutral; “Blue is N‑neutral; yellow‑green is PE.” [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915341]

Why it matters: This FAQ helps homeowners wire 230 V and induction hobs safely from a 3‑phase supply.

Quick Facts

What does “400 V” mean in a three-phase home supply?

You measure 400 V between any two different phases (L1‑L2, L1‑L3, L2‑L3). You measure 230 V between any single phase and neutral. This is why a single circuit can be 230 V while a hob across two phases sees 400 V. “Blue is N‑neutral; yellow‑green is PE.” [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915341]

How do I get 230 V from a 3‑phase panel for outlets or a PC?

Use any one phase (L1 or L2 or L3) and the neutral conductor (N). That pair delivers 230 V. Terminate PE to the protective earth bar. This is standard practice for 230 V branch circuits derived from a 3‑phase feeder. [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915364]

Are phases interchangeable for 230 V loads?

Yes. Any single phase with neutral provides 230 V. However, distribution should consider load balance across L1, L2, and L3 to avoid one phase running hotter. “In the switchgear, ‘any’ phase is taken and N…and we have 230 V.” [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915364]

Which phase should I pick to keep things balanced?

Choose the least‑loaded phase. If neighbors heavily use L1 and L3, prefer L2 for new 230 V circuits. This helps voltage stability and reduces nuisance trips. Ask your electrician to verify with measurements before assigning circuits. [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915389]

How do I connect a two‑phase induction hob correctly?

Follow the diagram: connect two phase terminals to Lx and Ly, connect N to the marked neutral terminal, connect PE. Leave the third phase unused, and bridge terminals 3–4 if the diagram shows it. “The ‘power’ third phase remains unused.” [Elektroda, anarkh, post #16915357]

Do I ever link L3 to neutral on a hob?

No. You connect N to the terminal labeled for neutral (often terminal 3 in some diagrams), not to an L3 phase point. Misplacing N onto L3 risks tripping protection or damaging electronics. “You connect N to terminal 3 and not to L3.” [Elektroda, Topolski Mirosław, post #16915361]

Will fuses trip if I wire the third terminal to neutral?

If the manufacturer’s diagram specifies N on that terminal, connecting neutral there is correct and should not trip fuses. Trips occur when a phase is mistakenly tied where neutral should go, creating faults. “Nothing like that on the diagram you presented.” [Elektroda, Topolski Mirosław, post #16915335]

What do the wire colors mean in modern nomenclature?

Blue is neutral (N). Yellow‑green is protective earth (PE). Other colors indicate phases L1, L2, and L3. Measure 230 V between any phase and N; measure 400 V between two phases. Quote: “Blue is N‑neutral, and yellow‑green is PE.” [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915341]

Can I take a phase from a five‑wire wall cable to power a computer?

Yes. Select any single phase and the neutral for 230 V, and connect PE for safety. This mirrors how 230 V sockets are derived in mixed systems. Keep circuits protected by appropriate breakers and RCDs per local code. [Elektroda, stanislaw1954, post #16915364]

What does RST mean on old diagrams?

RST is an older labeling convention for the three phases, equivalent to L1, L2, L3. If you see RST on appliance diagrams or notes, read them as today’s L1‑L3. It is not “putty”; it’s legacy phase marking. [Elektroda, karolark, post #16915382]

Is DIY connection of an induction hob recommended?

No. Manufacturers state that a qualified electrician should perform the connection. A pro will set bridges correctly, verify phase assignment, and test protection. “I propose to stick to that.” [Elektroda, anarkh, post #16915357]

What happens to the third phase when a hob uses only two phases?

It remains unused. You cap and insulate the spare phase conductor. Instead of a third phase input, you connect the neutral to the designated neutral terminal per the appliance diagram. [Elektroda, karolark, post #16915358]

Quick how‑to: set hob terminals per the diagram

  1. Bridge terminals 3–4 if shown on the plate.
  2. Connect two phases to the marked L terminals; connect N to the neutral terminal.
  3. Connect PE to the earth stud; leave the third phase unused and insulated. [Elektroda, anarkh, post #16915357]

How many conductors are typical for a 3‑phase kitchen feed?

Five conductors: three phases, one neutral (blue), and one protective earth (yellow‑green). This supports two‑phase hobs and standard 230 V circuits from the same feeder. That gives flexibility without extra pulls. [Elektroda, rafik54321, post #16915303]

Edge case: What if someone bridges two different phases together?

Never bridge phases. Shorting different phases creates a severe fault at 400 V, tripping breakers and risking damage or injury. Phases are only commoned via appliances designed for multi‑phase inputs, not by external links. “So long as not to bridge them.” [Elektroda, rafik54321, post #16915303]
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