Video intercom for a single-family house - what to choose and how to wire it

I am at the stage of making the fence. I plan to install a video intercom in the post by the gate.
Basic parameters / functions to be performed by the video intercom set:
- one external panel (mounted in the post by the gate) integrated with the letterbox,
- opening the wicket and two gates (from any loudspeaker monitor),
- internal communication between two hands-free monitors mounted on the ground floor and on the first floor (attic).

Which solution, at a reasonable price, would be appropriate on the market?

If you want to control three things (1 wicket + 2 gates) then at medium price either Vidos with an additional B3 module or Commax with an additional MD-RA3B module.

Most Vidos Exterior Panels (with steel front) and several Commax Exterior Panels (DRC-4CANs, 41UN, 4CHC, 40KPT) fit well into the boxes.

What is your opinion on video intercoms? Kenwei ?

Kenwei are ok too, especially with the new E709 touchscreen monitors. They build in very well (and, for example, ORNO cannot be built into the box. I also do not recommend ORNO due to the very poor parameters of the cameras and viewing angles). I just don't know that Kenwei allows you to control the opening of 3 things - from what I remember there is a wicket + 1 gate.

The question of cables is very important. Wiring already exists?

clouddancer wrote:

The question of wires is very important. Wiring already exists?

The excavations for the fence wall have just been made.
I am going to buy the cables soon.

I plan 5 x 2.5 mm2 for power supply, and 5 x 0.5 mm2 for control.
Will the UTP twisted pair be appropriate?

UTP twisted pair a bit weak - it's better to put something with a slightly larger cross-section. Especially when the distance between the monitor and the external panel is long.
It is important to lay a ground cable, not an ordinary cable.

In the video intercoms mentioned above, the main power supply is connected to the monitor and should not be far away from it - that is, you need to plan its placement at home. From my experience, it is usually not remembered by non-professionals (and even ordinary electricians).

The power supplies for the monitors are different:
- in Vidos for rail mounting, quite large
- in Kenwei ordinary "with cable", but large enough that it does not fit in a standard 60 box
- the Commax monitors are available in 2 versions: either with a 230V power cable or with an output for a rail-mounted power supply (you need to buy it separately)

Therefore, you have to remember about 2 wires from the monitor to its power supply.

In addition, you need a power supply for the electric strike (the most convenient one is 12V variable, then you hear how the latch is opened).

Alternatively, also a 12V DC power supply to supply additional functions of the external panel (e.g. encoder or RFID in Vidos) or e.g. to backlight in a box.

In general, the minimum number of veins between the house and the fence must be counted as:
4 (signal between monitor and external panel)
+2 (automatic gate control - directly to the gate controller)
+2 (12VAC power supply circuit of the electric strike)
+2 (12VDC power supply for additional functions)
that is 10 as the absolute minimum.

You can also throw these additional power supplies somewhere near the gate, if you have a suitable electrical box with a free space there. Do not put 230V in the letterbox and do not put power supplies in it!

Or you can go to the minimum option and choose the 2-wire Urmet 1722/85

The UTP twisted pair is completely sufficient, if you ever want to change to an IP intercom, it will be just right.

You do not know what distance, you do not know what video intercom will ultimately be chosen and what its requirements will be, so do not write that the twisted-pair cable is enough, because then I have to stand on my head at work to choose the equipment for victims of such advice.

clouddancer wrote:

You do not know what distance, you do not know what video intercom will ultimately be chosen and what its requirements will be, so do not write that the twisted-pair cable is enough, because then I have to stand on my head at work to choose the equipment for victims of such advice.

For each of the above-mentioned, the instruction says that a twisted pair or wires from 0.5mm2 to 1mm2 are allowed, the twisted pair has 0.5mm2 and so many wires that you can easily twist 2 wires together, which gives 1mm2.

kood wrote:

The twisted pair has 0.5mm2 and so many wires that you can easily twist 2 wires together, which gives 1mm2.

Unfortunately, I cannot agree with either of them. The twisted pair (like an installation telephone cable) has conductors with a diameter of 0.5 mm. It has nothing to do with mm?.
Such a wire is only 0.196 mm?, and two twisted together will give a total of 0.392 mm?, that is not even 0.5 mm?, let alone 1 mm?. The error is therefore quite big.

However, this does not change the fact that I use such cables myself, because they successfully cover short distances.

clouddancer wrote:

In general, the minimum number of veins between the house and the fence must be counted as:
4 (signal between monitor and external panel)
+2 (automatic gate control - directly to the gate controller)
+2 (12VAC power supply circuit of the electric strike)
+2 (12VDC power supply for additional functions)
that is 10 as the absolute minimum.

And that is more correct, except that the author has two gates.

Of course, on a smaller number of wires it is also possible to install (here, a common mass, there is a relay), but when wiring again, it is probably worth doing it properly at the beginning and with possible reserve for additional functions.
The basic question is about the distance (maybe, for example, the power supply needs to be doubled) and how to complete the installation at home.

krolik2 wrote:

I also advise against twisted pair

And I very often use twisted pair and I do not understand what is in this type of cable that it can handle it worse than others

krolik2 wrote:

then winter will come - the earth will freeze, and then summer - the substrate will heat up to several dozen degrees and after a few such cycles it will end up just like the customer who visited the site just two days ago. "Two years ago, the electric strike stopped working for me, and now the audio door does not ring."

Ps. maybe my colleague the author will transfer his idea to paper, he will give distances. If you have any data, it will be easier to do something specific. and yes, it's just guessing ...

The electrical board from which the wires to the monitor, wicket and gates will be led is located in the garage.
The distance from the garage to the place where the first monitor is to be located is approx. 7 m, from this point a cable leads to the first floor (approx. 5 m) to the second monitor.

The distance from the garage (board) to the gate is approx. 6 m, and to the first gate is approx. 10 m, and to the second gate is approx. 25 m.

Or maybe a colleague should describe this situation well once and for all, do you have to pull your colleague a little bit like that?
What cables and strands to be pulled to the monitors.
Are these gates one after the other, or maybe on one side of the building one gate and wicket, and on the other just a gate?
One call panel?

suworow wrote:

What cables and strands to be pulled to the monitors.

YTDY 8 x 0.5 - cable routed from the electrical board to the place where the intercom monitor is to be located on the ground floor, and from this point to the first floor.

suworow wrote:

Are these gates one after the other, or maybe on one side of the building one gate and wicket, and on the other just a gate?

One gate is located in front of the garage entrance, next to it, with an offset of about 2.5 m, there will be a wicket, and then after about 24 m there is a second gate.

suworow wrote:

One call panel?

Only one call panel is planned at the gate.

ekmir wrote:

YTDY 8 x 0.5 - cable routed from the electrical board to the place where the intercom monitor is to be located on the ground floor, and from this point to the first floor.

If this is the only cable we have at our disposal and the monitors cannot be powered, e.g. locally, then for a classic four-wire system it is a bit weak, because 4 wires are the communication bus (audio, ground, video power), two power supplies (provided that both monitors are powered from a common power supply (you may need to replace the original one with a slightly larger one (it's good to take into account the voltage drops when selecting it) and two wires are left for gate control. I would just give two bell buttons (monostable) located next to the monitor or mounted / attached to in it, controlling two relays located, for example, in the electrical switchboard (using the mass of the video intercom). And that's the end of the wires. Unfortunately, we will not have enough for an indicator of opening the gate or wicket. ) we are not always sure if the gate is closed at the moment.
It is also certain that the commax type system is out of the question, where additional wires are needed for the intercom between monitors. So much for what is inside.
Outside, I would lead two strands (of course, earth gel-coated 4X2X 0.5 mm). One can be led directly to the video intercom panel, and the other to the first drive of the gate and from there to the second. I would also give a connector (twisted pair again) between the drive of the first gate and the video intercom panel.
We have some cables piled up under the video intercom panel from the house, from the gate drive, from the striker, or from some combination lock or exit button. While it does not matter in the case of a metal post, in a brick post it is not always easy and reliable to connect so many cables under the panel. Therefore, in such situations, it is worth providing, for example, a recessed box in the wicket post from the inside. We run cables from the house and, for example, from the drive to it, and then from there to the door panel, catch and other accessories. (at the construction stage, a 20 mm hard conduit with a remote control is enough). We can also lead both cables (twisted pair from the house) to it and leave it with cable / cables to gate drives.
Enclosed are examples of such boxes, as well as an example of connecting cables under the panel (not mine ), where the connection itself is not always too elegant, and then it is not always easy to screw the panel itself on.

Since you are at the stage of building a fence, make sure at this stage:
wicket on adjustable (screw) hinges, the anchor of the catch and installed in such a way that this catch can be replaced in the future, handles instead of handles) Modifications at a later time can be expensive and not always aesthetic and fully functional.
This does not exhaust the topic, but I hope it brings it closer.

suworow wrote:

I would simply give here two bell buttons (monostable) located next to the monitor or mounted / attached to it, controlling two relays located, for example, in the electrical switchboard (using the mass of the video intercom).

Video intercoms do not have such an option - gate control?

I did not meet / did not notice that any monitor had two outputs to control gates.
Commax video intercoms. They do not have a dedicated button to open the gate and use the fully functional intercom button for this. To control a gate or two, the MD RA3B module must be used.
Vidos video intercoms - usually (or maybe all of them?) Usually have an additional button to control the gate (but one) when you want to control two gates with one button, you need to get the B3 module.
Both modules work fine when we have two call panels. There was a call from the panel No. 1 and it will open the gate number 1. There was a call from the panel No. 2 - it will open the gate No. 2. Both modules use a simple principle of the video intercom operation, that the power to the camera appears only after calling. When we have one panel or when we want to open a given gate ourselves without calling it, it will be simply annoying and it is easy to get lost in it (switching to input 2, we lose audio from input 1 - although this can also be avoided ) This is probably better explained in the Vidos manual for the B3 module than in the commax manual.

By the way. How is someone to signal that they are at the gate No. 2. I understand that it is possible to get to the gate bypassing the gate No. 2?

Quote:

YTDY 8 x 0.5 - cable routed from the electrical board to the place where the intercom monitor is to be located on the ground floor, and from this point to the first floor.

I did a visual inspection and it turns out that there is another YTDY 8 x 0.5 to the place where the monitor is to be located. So we have a total of monitors:
on the ground floor: 8 x 0.5 and 4 x 0.5
on the first floor: 8 x 0.5 and 4 x 0.5

suworow wrote:

By the way. How is someone to signal that they are at the gate No. 2. I understand that it is possible to get to the gate bypassing the gate No. 2?

The main entrance to the garage is gate No. 1, which is next to the gate (entrance to the property) No. 1 (there will be one span of the fence between the gate and the gate).
Gate No. 2 is the entrance gate to the garden (there is no wicket next to it), it opens sporadically and only for the justified needs of residents.

ekmir wrote:

YTDY 8 x 0.5 - cable routed from the electrical board to the place where the intercom monitor is to be located on the ground floor, and from this point to the first floor.

ekmir wrote:

I did a visual inspection and it turns out that there is another YTDY 8 x 0.5 to the place where the monitor is to be located.

ekmir wrote:

So we have at our disposal a total of monitors:
on the ground floor: 8 x 0.5 and 4 x 0.5
on the first floor: 8 x 0.5 and 4 x 0.5

This is a strange equation. It comes with 8 wires and we have 4X05. :)

ekmir wrote:

The main entrance to the garage is gate No. 1, which is next to the gate (entrance to the property) No. 1 (there will be one span of the fence between the gate and the gate).
Gate No. 2 is the entrance gate to the garden (there is no wicket next to it), it opens sporadically and only for the justified needs of residents.

I stand by what I wrote regarding external cabling. Well, unless it will be easier for you to lead the cable to the second gate directly from the switchboard.
greetings

suworow wrote:

This is a strange equation. It comes with 8 wires and we have 4X05.

The YTDY 8 x 0.5 cable is led from the switchgear to the place where the monitor is to be located on the ground floor, and the YTDY 8 x 0.5 cable is also led to the place where the monitor is to be located on the first floor.

The YTDY 8 x 0.5 cable is also placed between the planned monitors.

OK, that does increase the room for maneuver. Pretty sensibly wired. It would make even more sense if twisted pair cables were used for the cabling, not YTDY.
In this system, you are able to install a system where the intercom is run with separate cables (e.g. commax), but also by installing a system where the intercom does not require separate wiring, you gain a supply of cables for additional functions and solutions. And of course, you can supply power to each of the monitors with separate wires. Whether from two separate power supplies or from one, it's a matter of choice.
Anyway, are you actually going to talk between floors on the intercom?
Is it necessary to control the seldom used gate 2 from the monitor?

suworow wrote:

Anyway, are you actually going to talk between floors on the intercom?
Is it necessary to control the seldom used gate 2 from the monitor?

This is how I wonder about this function of talking between intercoms and about controlling gate 2 (occasionally used) - does it make sense ...

Can this gate (No. 2) be made in the version with an electric drive or can it be made in the version - manual closing and opening.

Now I have to decide on the cables / wires for power and control.

What do you think about such propositions:
- for powering controllers: wire / cable 0.6 / 1kV YKY 5x2.5mm2,
- for control (video intercom / drive): gel-coated (earth) UTP cat.5e cable,
- between the gate detectors: UTP cat.5e gel-coated (ground) cable,
- for LED backlight: BIT 500 BLACK FR 4G0.75 (4 x 0.75 mm2)

Are these cable / wire suggestions suitable for powering and controlling gate drives and video intercom?

ekmir wrote:

for powering controllers: wire / cable 0.6 / 1kV YKY 5x2.5mm2,

For what reason 5X?
Gelled earth twisted pair is most suitable for a video intercom and it can be used for photocells (at least we do not have to buy several types of cables) Here, I just warn you against inventions for 1 / PLN a meter, which can be used outdoors, but not necessarily in the ground .
Any cable for the gate actuator on the farther post?
Does your colleague know where to put the wires on the post where the control panel will be, so that they do not interfere with the assembly of the actuator and the housing itself, and the assembly itself can be aesthetic later?

suworow wrote:

For what reason 5X?

I am planning a hermetic 230 V socket at the gate

suworow wrote:

Any cable for the gate actuator on the farther post?

I don't really understand - it's supposed to be a sliding gate.
I plan to route the cables at the post where the drive will be.

suworow wrote:

Does your colleague know where to put the wires on the post where the control panel will be, so that they do not interfere with the assembly of the actuator and the housing itself, and the assembly itself can be aesthetic later?

as above

ekmir wrote:

I don't really understand - it's supposed to be a sliding gate.

I'm sorry but I got it wrong with this topic
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3481533.html#17336376
I was somewhat misled by the laconic information, where during the discussion it was presented quite accurately (how many wires in what topology):

ekmir wrote:

for control (video intercom / drive): gel-coated (earth) UTP cat.5e cable,

So generally yes.
The gate does not overlap the gate?


The gate opens onto a wicket or

suworow wrote:

The gate does not overlap the gate?
The gate opens onto a wicket or

The gate opens (moves) to the left (looking from the property side).
There will be a span between the gate and the wicket - the gate and the wicket have independent posts.

Added after 1 [hours] 22 [minutes]:

suworow wrote:

Gelled earth twisted pair is most suitable for a video intercom and it can be used for photocells (at least we do not have to buy several types of cables) Here, I just warn you against inventions for 1 / PLN a meter, which can be used outdoors, but not necessarily in the ground .

Which colleague would recommend, which would work best?

I've been using Madex lately (our local producer is also in our warehouse). Adequately thick outer insulation, normal gel, not the strange stuff like in cheaper cables.