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[Solved] Cable Colors in Old Electrical Installation: L (Brown), N (Blue), PE (Yellow-Green), Black & Brown

AnonNazwaUżytkownika 24213 12
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  • #1 17397092
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
    Posts: 11
    Rate: 3
    Hello
    I have a question about the colors of cables in old electrical installations. I bought an apartment in a tenement house and the previous owner replaced the 2 cable installation with the 3 cable installation in the bathroom and rooms. Everything is clear there:
    L - brown
    N - blue
    PE - yellow-green

    The stairs start in the kitchen. It turns out that the third cable (?) Was introduced there according to some strange logic for me.
    We have three cables there: black (definitely L), brown (PE ?!) and blue (N?).
    Is such an arrangement at all possible? Apparently, it was done by a "specialist" ...
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  • #2 17397099
    ta_tar
    Level 41  
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    Brown is also the color of the phase. Can you specify what this brown cable is connected to? Check the sockets as best they are with a pin. Remember about safety.
  • #3 17397103
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
    Posts: 11
    Rate: 3
    The problem is that this is what the socket box for the socket I want to install looks like. Until now, it was hidden behind furniture. Which cable is the phase, I checked with a test tube, or whatever it is professionally called ;)
  • #4 17397109
    ta_tar
    Level 41  
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    So you have these colors in the can. If so, the installation is incorrect. You cannot replace the yellow-green (protective) cable with a different color. Do you have this in all sockets in the kitchen? Perhaps only in this socket "he" lacked a protective cable and he added a different color.
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  • #5 17397110
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
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    The bathroom and the other sockets, apart from the second one in the kitchen (note: from the combi oven!), Have a "correct" and contemporary color scheme
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    #6 17397120
    ta_tar
    Level 41  
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    What does it mean "dual-function oven".
  • #7 17397122
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
    Posts: 11
    Rate: 3
    ta_tar wrote:
    What does it mean "dual-function oven".


    Such a modern junkers for hot water and heating. It's so strange that it would seem that it needs the desired installation and here is some kind of flaw. You are interested in "specialists" no matter what
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    #8 17397130
    ta_tar
    Level 41  
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    Because I thought you had an electric stove where there is a possibility of connecting two phases, but there would be no protection. And how do you have this stove connected. Where the different colors on the stove come in.
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  • #9 17397135
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
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    The stove is plugged into an outlet. I have not dismantled this socket yet because it is messy with painting / puttying and it will have to be dealt with tomorrow. There are no two phases and there have not been. Stove for 230V and 3 cables in all walls
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    #10 17397151
    ta_tar
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    One more question for today. Can the installation be made in pipes or directly in the walls?
  • #11 17397155
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
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    The installation is in pipes and the cable is in one sheath (!) And not "thrown" through the wire into the conduit
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    #12 17397186
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl  
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    AnonNazwaUżytkownika wrote:

    The stairs start in the kitchen. It turns out that the third cable (?) Was introduced there according to some strange logic for me.
    We have three cables there: black (definitely L), brown (PE ?!) and blue (N?).
    Is such an arrangement at all possible? Apparently, it was done by a "specialist" ...

    These are not cables, but wires. In addition, a real electrician checks what is where before any work. The colors of the wires are a suggestion, but you should never be sure what's behind them. You should always do this to check yourself, that is, measure and know. Nobody will guess it on the forum, so assuming such topics is pointless.
  • #13 17397519
    AnonNazwaUżytkownika
    Level 6  
    Posts: 11
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    Case resolved. I checked the lampholder and the bulb in cooperation with a multimeter :) The brown cable is PE as it turned out. A very strange thing, but I marked the end of this cable with yellow-green insulation, also straightened a little. By the way, I discovered that out of 14 sockets, 12 have the phase on the left and two on the right ... but this is just a confirmation of what the bastard was doing. Regards :)
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the color coding of cables in an old electrical installation, specifically in a tenement house where a three-cable system was improperly implemented. The user identifies the cables as black (L), brown (potentially PE), and blue (N) in the kitchen, raising concerns about safety and compliance with standard wiring practices. Responses emphasize the importance of verifying cable functions with testing tools and highlight that the yellow-green protective earth (PE) should not be replaced with another color. The user ultimately discovers that the brown cable is indeed being used as PE, leading to further concerns about the overall wiring consistency across multiple sockets. The installation is confirmed to be in pipes, and the user notes discrepancies in socket configurations, indicating poor workmanship by the previous installer.
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FAQ

TL;DR: 12 of 14 sockets had phase on the left; "The brown cable is PE as it turned out." Verify with a multimeter; never trust colors alone. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397519]

Why it matters: Misidentified conductors can defeat protection and damage appliances; this FAQ is for apartment buyers and DIYers troubleshooting mixed-color wiring in older installations.

Quick Facts

How were the wires actually connected in this kitchen case?

Black was live (L). Blue was neutral (N). Brown, unusually, was protective (PE). The user confirmed this using a lamp holder and a multimeter. They then marked the brown with yellow‑green insulation for clarity. Plan a proper rewire so PE is yellow‑green end‑to‑end. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397519]

Should I trust wire colors when installing a socket?

Do not. "The colors of the wires are a suggestion, but you should never be sure what's behind them." Always test and label before touching conductors. Measure first, then connect. If in doubt, hire a qualified electrician. [Elektroda, retrofood, post #17397186]

How do I identify L, N, and PE with a multimeter?

Use a multimeter (e.g., Fluke) and a test load.
  1. Switch off the breaker and verify the circuit is dead.
  2. With power off, continuity‑test the suspected PE to the lampholder’s earth or metal body.
  3. Re‑energize briefly and meter to identify the live, then de‑energize again. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397519]

Is it OK to mark a miscolored PE with yellow‑green tape?

Yes, as a temporary identification step. The poster wrapped the miscolored brown PE with yellow‑green tape. That reduces confusion during maintenance. Schedule a correction so the protective conductor is the proper yellow‑green along its route. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397519]

Why is using brown as PE unsafe or non‑compliant?

"You cannot replace the yellow‑green (protective) cable with a different color." It breaks clear identification and is considered incorrect. Treat this as a wiring error that needs remediation by a competent person. [Elektroda, ta_tar, post #17397109]

Phase left or right—does the socket side matter?

In this flat, 12 of 14 receptacles had phase on the left, two on the right. That inconsistency complicates troubleshooting. Standardize within your home for clarity, and label while you work. Always verify orientation before connecting appliances. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397519]

Does a 230 V stove or combi boiler need special wiring?

This stove ran on 230 V with three conductors and a standard socket. There were no two phases available or used. Ensure a protective conductor exists and is identified before powering the appliance. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397135]

The wiring is in conduit with a sheathed cable—can I fix it without re‑chasing walls?

The conductors run in pipes, and the run uses a sheathed cable. That often makes corrections easier. You can pull a correctly colored protective conductor or replace the cable without chasing plaster. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397155]

In a three‑wire box (black, blue, brown), which one is live?

In this case, black was live. The user confirmed the phase with a tester before proceeding. Do not assume colors; confirm at each box and outlet. [Elektroda, AnonNazwaUżytkownika, post #17397092]

Why would a pro use brown as PE in just one outlet?

One likely reason is a missing yellow‑green in that run. "Perhaps only in this socket he lacked a protective cable and he added a different color." Check the rest of the circuit and correct the fault. [Elektroda, ta_tar, post #17397109]

What should I do before installing a new socket on this circuit?

Identify every conductor by measurement before wiring. "A real electrician checks what is where before any work." Map L, N, and PE at the box and the device. If unsure, stop and call a professional. [Elektroda, retrofood, post #17397186]

Are these "cables" or "wires" in the box—and does terminology matter?

Inside the sheathed cable you have individual wires. "These are not cables, but wires." Using the correct terms helps you get precise help and parts. [Elektroda, retrofood, post #17397186]
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