Battery voltage. - The voltage on the battery is 12.1V, the starter does not spi

Hello.
I have a problem with starting the Citroen C4 1.4 benznyna. The starter does not turn to me at all, after turning the key to the 1st position, everything works normally, the pump pulls fuel to start, after turning to the 2nd position for starting, I hear a tick, all the displays on the dashboard go out, the lights, when I have road lights on, dim and not I can hear the starter running. After the displays go out, the car returns to the state that all displays are normal.

I replaced the fuse from the starter, nothing happened. I measured the voltage on the battery, at rest 12.1V after turning to 1 position 11.7. At startup, I have no way to check.

Is the battery in this state of charge simply discharged or maybe it should be replaced? Is it not the fault of the battery, but a tow truck and a mechanic waiting for me?
DC

Check the terminals on the battery and ask someone to help you measure the battery when trying to start.
Because either the battery was dead, or the starter, sometimes maybe the power cord - the mass may be damaged, but ...

Domin933 wrote:

At startup, I have no way to check.

However, such a measurement is necessary, ask someone for help who will read the voltage or spin (try) the starter.
80% of it will be the fault of the battery, but damage to the starter is possible.

Domin933 wrote:

At startup, I have no way to check.

If you do not have? Plug the voltmeter into the cigarette lighter and measure it without the help of a second person.
I have (in Skoda) about 10.0-10.2 V at start-up.

Domin933 wrote:

Is the battery in this state of charge simply discharged or maybe it should be replaced?

It can be both. Charge it with a rectifier and check if it fires.
A charged battery in standby mode should be a few days after charging at least 12.2V.
You can quickly check if the starter is okay by borrowing a good battery from a neighbor.

What voltage at the start will mean discharge and what battery to replace (unless it is difficult to determine it by the voltage alone)?
When it comes to klems, I have access to + - very limited, but I will fight. A damaged clamp means that it is broken, not tightened or dirty, rusted?

Domin933 wrote:

A damaged clamp means that it is broken, not tightened or dirty, rusted?

It may be all you mentioned.

Domin933 wrote:

What voltage at the start will mean discharge and what battery to replace (unless it is difficult to determine it by the voltage alone)?

Voltage below 10V, but it can mean both the battery to be replaced (heavily sulphated) and discharged. To be sure, the battery before start-up should be charged with a rectifier to a minimum of 14.5V with final charging with a current of no more than 3A.
You can see the degree of sulfation of the battery after you quickly charge it to 14.5V. The faster it is, the more sulfated it is.

Okay, I wrote earlier that I had 12.1 at rest, now I went to see the voltage at start through the cigarette lighter socket, as the vodiczka wrote. It came out on 10.7 without starting, I turned the ignition key and the car entered the eco state and nothing starts from the electronics I measured the voltage on the battery = 10.5-10.7. I think I deleted the battery to 0

Domin933 wrote:

It came out on 10.7 with no boot

Then you shouldn't spin with this tension anymore.
How old is the battery? If older than 5 years, I suggest you buy a new one and play with the old one, maybe after resuscitation it will be useful as a spare.
If it is younger, please charge it immediately, save the current and charging time and post the result on the forum.

The description shows that the battery is used up.
Connect the battery to the charger. After charging, if it does not start, the battery should be replaced.

The battery is 10.7V, it proves a short circuit in the cell, nothing more.

vodiczka wrote:

Domin933 wrote:

It came out on 10.7 with no boot

Then you shouldn't spin with this tension anymore.
How old is the battery? If older than 5 years, I suggest you buy a new one and play with the old one, maybe after resuscitation it will be useful as a spare.
If it is younger, please charge it immediately, save the current and charging time and post the result on the forum.

I do not know how old the battery is, the car was bought a year ago (I am the second owner), I have not replaced it yet.
I do not have a rectifier, when it comes to buying the simplest rectifier for PLN 80 max 6A 12V? Or maybe not to invest in a charger and buy a battery.

Domin933 wrote:

when it comes to purchase, the simplest rectifier for PLN 80 6A 12V is enough?

You can buy a battery for 2 cents.

As if it helped, fire on the cables from a friend and after 10 minutes of work he has to recharge and fire himself.

Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:

Domin933 wrote:

when it comes to purchase, the simplest rectifier for PLN 80 6A 12V is enough?

You can buy a battery for 2 st.

As if it helped, fire on the cables from a friend and after 10 minutes of work, he must recharge and fire himself.

I will do as you wrote, I will buy the battery if nothing helps. What worries me the most is the car did not start overnight.
I will let you know how to put the car upright, thanks for the help of all writers.
Regards DC

Domin933 wrote:

What worries me the most is the car did not start overnight.

This is a normal phenomenon in modern batteries, as opposed to those from the 1980s, which showed that their life was almost ending by turning the starter weaker and weaker.

Such a rectifier is enough. It is a good practice to charge the battery with a charger once a month (or twice a month with frequent city driving).

Maybe, however, to the workshop first, before you dump the money on the battery.

If the battery is less than 12.5 it is damaged (at least sulphated),
It can be partially regenerated by charging with a small current, i.e. through a rectifier, not in the car,
My polonez will fire even from the ejected battery, which has 11V, as long as the start-up voltage does not drop below 7V (it was tested, I changed the battery just after the start-up voltage dropped below 7V, because the starter did not turn on).

Voltage test - the meter must be connected to the battery poles, not to the cigarette lighter or even to a clamp.

isabelll wrote:

If the battery is less than 12.5 it is damaged (at least sulphated),

When less? Because such a voltage a few hours after charging the battery is correct.
I replaced the battery after 6.5 years of use, not because it had a voltage of 12.4V an hour after charging, but because of its age and the upcoming winter. After checking, it still had about 50% of its rated capacity.

A good car battery is at 12.8 volts the next day, before starting
In our stores, they can be aged for themselves, without maintenance, i.e. recharging every now and then, and after a few months they are to be thrown away,
when I was buying a battery recently, most of it had a voltage of 12.4 - 12.5 V, I chose the one with 12.6V,
of course, the seller claims that those with a voltage of 12.4V are fine, and gives a 2-year warranty,
is right that you can put it in the car and drive, just like you could drive with your 12.4V,

I do not know how you checked the 50% capacity, taking into account age and voltage, I would not rate it so well

You talk about miracles-invisibility. Yes, the new battery will have a voltage higher than 12.5V. The one I put on in 2016, after charging with a rectifier to 14.72V, had a voltage of 12.96V after 96h, and the 6.5-year-old only 12.54V at the same time, but this applies to the measurement of the battery removed from the car, not loaded, for example, with a dormant on-board computer. With normal charging with an alternator in the car, after 12 hours from the end of the drive, you have 12.3-12.6V depending on the age of the battery, and more precisely its condition after several years of use. The battery with a voltage of

Okay, I got my ignorance about batteries from the commune, maybe it is not suitable for modern batteries, please teach me. I'm just asking you to stick to your own words. You wrote above that "the voltage [12.5V] a few hours after charging the battery is correct", now that after 96 hours from charging it was 12.96V relatively new, and the half-good voltage was 12.54V. (you wrote above that "it had a voltage of 12.4V an hour after charging", that is, according to the new information, for a further 95 hours the voltage increased by 0.14V).

I would like to know why the batteries are now charged "to 14.72V", I always charge, if I charge with current, up to 14.4V. Is this an error and the battery is not fully charged?

What about the battery, which in the car had 12.9V after a few days when loaded with a computer and a clock? and after putting aside for half a year in a charged state - 0.1V? - went to scrap.

What to judge about a battery that has 12.6V a few hours after being charged, but spins the starter five times in the car and then sneezes.

It is true that I do not have a variable load that would consume a constant current, but I am curious if the 11V voltage on the battery was present when the current of 6.4A was drawn from it.

I am also curious about the requirements for the alternator. Because mine doesn't seem to be demanding. At idle, the (charging) voltage is 14.15V, but only 13.9V when the engine speed is over 3000o / min.

Greetings,

hoping that your answers will be useful not only to me.

isabelll wrote:

You wrote above that "the voltage [12.5V] a few hours after charging the battery is correct", now that after 96 hours from charging it was 12.96V relatively new, and the half-good voltage was 12.54V. (you wrote above that "it had a voltage of 12.4V an hour after charging", that is, according to the new information, for a further 95 hours the voltage increased by 0.14V).

Please read my statements again carefully. It had 12.54V after being charged with a rectifier outside the car and left for 96h "on the shelf".
12.4V had an hour after the end of charging with the alternator in the car.

isabelll wrote:

I would like to know why the batteries are now charged "to 14.72V", I always charge, if I charge with current, up to 14.4V. Is this an error and the battery is not fully charged?

14.72V was for charging with a rectifier. The fact that I charge this way with a rectifier does not mean that you cannot charge up to 14.4V or (with low current) up to 15.2V. In the car, the alternator charges me from 13.6V on hot summer days to 14.5V on cold winter days. Such a "modern" technique to prevent excessive electrolyte loss> the higher the temperature of the electrolyte, the lower its gassing voltage.

isabelll wrote:

What about the battery, which in the car had 12.9V after a few days when loaded with a computer and a clock? and after putting aside for half a year in a charged state - 0.1V? - went to scrap.

Active mass lost? Got a short circuit? - without an autopsy, it is impossible to determine the cause because a good battery (whatever I mean by that) had no right to fall. You might as well ask why a young athletic footballer who played the last match without any effort has not been injured, has not been fouled, and after a few days he suffers a heart attack that he does not survive.

isabelll wrote:

What to judge about a battery that has 12.6V a few hours after being charged, but spins the starter five times in the car and then sneezes.

This is a typical symptom of a significant loss of capacity / sulphation of the battery, but it is necessary to clarify what we mean by "spin the starter five times" - five times 2 seconds with several seconds breaks or 5 times "chews" for 6 seconds with several seconds breaks? The second case indicates that the capacity loss is less than the first.

isabelll wrote:

It is true that I do not have a variable load that would consume a constant current, but I am curious if the 11V voltage on the battery was present when the current of 6.4A was drawn from it.

I have an "ordinary" 2? / 75W resistor (measured with a 1.9? ohmmeter that is, the current was not constant and it slowly decreased with the voltage drop, which of course I took into account when calculating the capacity. In the initial phase of discharge, reading every 15 minutes, in the middle (linear characteristic) every 1 hour and in the final phase (below 11.5 V under load) also every 15 minutes.
At 11V, the current consumption was 5.5-5.8A depending on the resistance we choose. It is not an exact measurement but according to my estimates the error does not exceed 10%.

I also noticed a significant difference in the slope of the linear part of the characteristic U = f (t) for the new (120 mV / h) and the old (145 mV / h) battery. Both Centra Futura 64Ah batteries, old one purchased on May 10, 2010. new 23 November 2016 replacement in early December.

Well, I would never have suspected that a battery with a 12.4 in a car can store so much energy.

But to make it clear to the end. If the difference is due to the fact that the battery in the car is under load, then I understand, if it is charged in the car, then unfortunately not. Hence the question. I only charge the battery when it is no longer spinning (too much effort to tear the battery to the floor in the block). I charge with 1A current until it reaches 14.4V. It takes several days. If I extend the charge until it reaches 15.2, would it be better charged? Will the couple blow the whistle, or worse, when any adverse changes occur?

The battery that fell was a pretty good battery with a charge sensor. He was six months old, charged up from the car and left at room temperature. After half a year, when it was needed in winter, it turned out to have the voltage of 0.1V.

Did you write correctly "five times for 2 seconds with several-second breaks or 5 times" cheeks "for 6 seconds with breaks of several seconds? The second case indicates that the loss of capacity is smaller than in the first.". One could conclude that the best for aku is to "cheat" for 30 seconds without a break, and driving short distances, where we light up every quarter of an hour, is a murder for aku.

isabelll wrote:

He was six months old, charged up from the car and left at room temperature. After half a year, when it was needed in winter, it turned out to have the voltage of 0.1V.

It had to be hidden in the basement. Lower temperature = less self-discharge. Besides, it didn't have to be fully charged.
After all, half a year of storage for a used battery is a murder, it should be fully charged at least once every three months.

kris8888 wrote:

Half a year of storage for a used battery is still a murder, it should be fully charged at least once every three months

My used 6.5 year old is now in the basement for the second year and the green eye goes out only five months after being fully charged.

Added after 1 [hours] 7 [minutes]:

isabelll wrote:

One might conclude that it is best for aku to "cheat" for 30 seconds without interruption,

We did not understand each other - I wrote it not very clearly. My point is that if in the first case it died after five short firings, and in the second after five "coughs", then in the second case it had to have a larger capacity before the first start of the starter to withstand as many as five "chafes" and not to fall, for example, after the third.

isabelll wrote:

I only charge the battery when it is no longer spinning (too much effort to tear the battery to the floor in the block). I charge with 1A current until it reaches 14.4V. It takes several days.

In my opinion better not to wait until it is able to turn off but charge early in winter or twice a year. If it does not spin after two or three months from the previous charging, we "revive the corpse" as long as the alternator is properly charging and we do not only drive for short distances or we have not left the lights on.
If your battery is over 50Ah, it can be charged with a current of no more than 1A up to 15.2V at a temperature of up to 20 ° C
It's even better to pull it up to 14.6-14.7V instead of ending up at 14.4V and then 0.4-0.5A to 15.2V.
This is my way of "playing with the battery" and I am not saying that it is the optimal solution.
Returning to the "battery does not want to spin" situation - it never happened to me in a battery less than 6 years old. When the older one turns worse, I replace it with a new one. I believe that he has depreciated and I do not want to risk an emergency on the way.
Since the times of the Polish People's Republic I have been sticking to Centers (probably out of habit) and I do not complain. Once I had Piasts and once Bosch (factory car accessories) and it was Bosch that failed me in the least expected moment, but also after six years of operation.

Thank you for the information and I am finishing this exchange of comments, hosted on someone else's topic,
this dialogue of ours gives a little boost to my assessment of the electrode, in which, at least me, a beginner, I get a bit lost,
maybe others too, that's why I have such a small response to my topic "Polonez GLI 1600 abimex - error 45, probe good, burns too much, goes out hot n",
that is, problems with the monument.

greetings

vodiczka wrote:

Since the times of the Polish People's Republic I have been sticking to Centers (probably out of habit) and I do not complain.

Well, we have similar habits. When I exchange aku, I also exchange it with Centra, because she has never made a joke to me. I had Piasts once and after two years the connection between the goals was broken.

vodiczka wrote:

My used 6.5 year old is now in the basement for the second year and the green eye goes out only five months after being fully charged.

Don't trust this eye too much. It gives a very indicative electrolyte density in only one cell. The other targets may be in worse shape. Moreover, its effectiveness of "action" to a large extent depends also on the level of electrolyte in this one cell, which should also be controlled from time to time.

It is enough for one of these two plastic balls in the eyelet to get slightly sunken and "jam" in the plastic capillary and you will think that the battery is ok, but in the meantime it will be sulphated a long time ago. It's best to get an aerometer.

kris8888 wrote:

It is enough for one of these two plastic balls in the eyelet to get slightly sunken and "jam" in the plastic capillary and you will think that the battery is ok, but in the meantime it will be sulphated a long time ago. It's best to get an aerometer.

In non-opening ones, the hydrometer can be used by the dog in a kennel.
Wink works well as I wrote in another topic, but let me remind you briefly:
In batteries (Bosch and the first Futura Centers), the eye stopped showing after 2.5-3 years of battery use. Normal top-up with a current slightly below 0.1C helped, but for a short time, the eye disappeared after a dozen or so days.
Nevertheless, the batteries fired without any problems for 6 years; also at -15 ° C.
Before putting the Futura in the basement and checking how much capacity it had left, I had a few dozen hours of charging with 0.4-0.5A current to a voltage of 15.2-15.3V. Wink showed up and, as I wrote, it lasts for about five months after each top-up.
I guess it is understandable that when the battery lost capacity due to partial sulphation in the battery charged with the alternator, the electrolyte density was lower than in the new battery. Only desulphation charging (low current - long time) caused the appearance of the mesh. Oczko also showed up (earlier) on the road, when I drove over 300 km with one ten-minute stop.
Of course, you are right that the assessment of the condition of the battery by checking one cell is indicative and reliable only if all the cells have aged equally.
When Futura is 10 years old (May 2020), I will check how much capacity it has left.
Now it is occasionally used as a 12V power supply. Taking a few Ah causes the eye to disappear.