Which gas stove to choose - Vaillant or De Dietrich? Opinions, failure rate ...

Hello, I am trying to replace the gas stove, the choice fell on 2 models:
1. Vaillant ecoTEC VC plus 206 / 5-5 + 120 l tank
2. De Dietrich MCR3 PLUS 24T + 120 l hopper
I am asking for opinions, which one should I choose? Is it worth paying extra to Vaillant?
Apparently, cleaning the exchanger in the Vaillant ecoTEC VC plus 206 / 5-5 is much easier and faster than in De Dietrich? Stainless steel heat exchanger in Vaillant and in MCR 3 silicon-aluminum. Apparently the hydroblock is plastic in MCR 3? Is it made of steel in Vaillant? I am asking for an opinion and reliable advice. best regards

Choose the one that is easier to service. While waiting for the inspection is not a problem, removing the defect in the heating season is.

I have good access to the Service for both furnaces ... the only question is to minimize the defects, so that the replacement and cleaning are simple and quick. It is known that all devices break down sooner or later, it is just a matter of servicing and caring.

Added after 35 [minutes]:

I still keep an eye on Immergas Victrix EXA 24 KOMFORT with a 125 l container

Advising which boiler to buy without knowing the conditions under which it will work is like a guessing game. It is worth describing the type of installation, building type, etc.
But to the point. Assuming that the installation and the building are both able to handle it:
I think I would choose Dietrich. Parts that can break down due to even hard water (three-way valve, vent or electrodes) - are half the price of the Vaillant. Yes, the hydraulic block is made of composite. The first models had a problem with a cracking block at the pump, this was later fixed.
And he's damn silent. You can hardly hear it
The downside is that in order to clean the primary exchanger well during service, it has to be removed, which can increase cleaning / service costs. Without taking it out - it's a pity to do the service, because you will only "stuff" dirt.
And of course - access to a server in your area.
On the other hand, Vaillant - probably a more "known" company, you have a hydroblock in brass (at least it has the color of brass, and no one knows how much brass is in it ...) and their boilers are, in my opinion, prettier.
The exchanger is easier to clean, although in the case of high condensation and a large amount of condensate sediment formation, the gaps between the fins may get clogged and then it is not easy to clean it properly

Buddy zales.vip, thanks for the comprehensive and insightful answer tell me if you have knowledge about Immergas boilers, e.g. immergas Victrix TERA 24 STANDARD PLUS 125 (boiler + reservoir + reservoir probe)

I don't have much experience with these models. So I will not comment on them.
Use the rule: if someone recommends you a given product, let him support it with the argument of why this and this particular company.
You can get the best knowledge about them from people who use them (preferably those who have been using them for several years) and from independent service technicians. Sometimes Authorized service technicians / installers are biased.

Read about the Tera boiler. The website doesn't even recommend them. EXA is much better. It was already about them on the forum.

Hi. If I had to choose from these two boilers, I would recommend you de dietrich. It is quiet and the spare parts are much cheaper than those of the Vaillant and that is if it was not an important issue I live in Wroclaw and I have a good service with mega professionals here, if you also have their service somewhere in your area, I definitely recommend DDetrich. best regards

Hello, could you please add something more to the topic of Immergas Victrix TERA 24 STANDARD PLUS? Very little information about them and I am before the choice and I am wondering about the 24 minimum power which is 4.3kw at exa 5.7kw and whether the demand is 50w / m2 and simple installation 1 circuit, on oversized steel radiators per building 185m2 of a well-insulated building is this any savings? What do you think about it ?

bro2004 wrote:

Read about the Tera boiler. The website doesn't even recommend them. EXA is much better. It was already about them on the forum.

I do not know where do you get the knowledge about the Victrich tera 24 kw boiler that they do not recommend ?? , but I talked to a few service technicians from the vicinity of Łódź and they all say that the boiler is very successful and the Exa does not yield to anything, which a year ago no one knew anything about it, so now it sells a lot. It has a different service menu and lower modulations from 4.3 kW compared to 5.7 with exa which seems to be a plus, assuming that the building will use it, and smaller sizes plus less electricity consumption and a tubular type of exchanger that is just praised, so as a person who does an interview with various installers and service technicians, he will probably decide on this just a model and I would like to read if someone adds something objective, greetings.

DeDietrich - probably has cheaper spare parts. You can check the spare parts catalog prices on pielietrich.pl. I mean the parts that will wear naturally in both types of the three-way valve, electrodes, gaskets under the burner, under the electrodes.
Besides, a silicon-aluminum exchanger. In my opinion, on +
The downside of DeDietrich is that for the annual service you have to find a professional who wants to remove the exchanger for cleaning. Because such cleaning from the top is about the edge of the butt. Only dirt is stuffed.

And the MCR3 is really very quiet, although if it hangs somewhere in the boiler room - it is not a significant argument

A positive silicon exchanger? Well, sorry, but let me disagree, everyone bypasses a large arc because if it gets dirty, the chapel is dirty, the second thing is the guarantee in DeDitrich? Because in Immergas there is 1 free firing and extension of the warranty to 5 years also for free, which also allows for peace for these years, and as for silicon exchangers, there are wholesalers that do not even want to sell such models with these exchangers because they are emergency and I rely on the model here TT from Immergas because too little knowledge about DeDitrich I won't say.

raptus74 - what do you mean by "dirty"?
Will the sewers fall from within? Do you assume that thin tubes in a stainless steel heat exchanger will be more resistant to "clogging"?
And if they become clogged, then in the case of stainless steel, what - not a chapel? Will you clean?
Compare the diameters of the flows in the channels (through which the CO water flows) in the MCR3 exchanger, and in the Immergas you mentioned they are much larger. And that's why I don't think that they get dirty faster



"wholesalers do not sell boilers with silicon-aluminum exchangers because they are emergency?" - Do you sometimes read what you write? I haven't heard any more nonsense

What do you think - Why do most well-known companies use silicon-aluminum exchangers in boilers with higher power? Because they get dirty? Because they are emergency?

As for the warranty - the first run - free. Warranty for the exchanger - up to 7 years - ALE
It cannot be filled with puddle water. The water must have appropriate Ph and hardness.

And that's exactly what I mean:
Advantages of aluminum:
Less stress, better heat transport and thus smaller dimensions and much lighter.
Disadvantages: cleaning problems, they can find something white in such a way that the flow of exhaust gas becomes impossible.
The "white something" sticks to the exchanger so much that it cannot be removed and often a large part of it remains a bit like an insulator.

Kvass advantages:
The absence of "white something" is instead dark slag which can be removed with a compressor, for example.
Defects:
Stresses, weaker heat transport, which means that it must be larger and automatically weight.
so in peasantry, they simply collapse and get dirty faster (maybe because of inferior quality water where you need to treat it, but it's costs), which causes more frequent cleaning and thus calling the service because the warranty requires and where the cost is PLN 200, so if someone will use it often, costs are considerable compared to the profit. PS: As for the failure rate, I wrote to you exactly that it is the TT model from Immergas and no other is out of the question because I do not express myself and describe the website's insights specifically because I work in the wholesale department where DeDietrich does not rely on it what I know and hear and I have not written anywhere that the DeDietrich company has defective exchangers, but my only point was that the type of silicon-alu exchanger is more demanding and requires frequent servicing, and if you do not care, it can lead to boiler failure and, consequently, high costs and I gave this as a remark that I do not agree that this type of exchanger is necessarily better than acid steel and I do not comment on specific companies other than Immergas and the more models, as I have already mentioned, I wrote about the defective Immergas TT series and no other. I am more interested in who has what opinion about Immergas Tera 24 because these are quite new boilers and I am interested in the opinion of users, so maybe someone will add something to this topic ???

It is a "white something" - what happens in the exchanger is the sediment that forms from the condensate. It also precipitates in steel exchangers. It can also clog the exchanger. Yes - the exchanger can do it, but - as I wrote about, after removing the exchanger you are able to clean it elegantly.
Also, exchangers with the same structure as in Immergas - can clog up with it. The downside - in this case it is - is that only the bottom of the exchanger extends, allowing the exchanger to continue operating. Unfortunately - this is not a plus, because when the bottom of the exchanger is clogged - there is no way to drain the condensate and I have encountered cases where the burner was flooded.

In the sales department you say ... then you definitely have experience in servicing devices and your knowledge is supported by practice.
Forgive me, but if you do not have any experience with the service with devices - do not write opinions heard only from installers. Installers often recommend or not only recommend devices that have some benefits. Service technicians have more experience because they work with devices for many years and see what happens with them during use. And here is a more reliable and impartial opinion.

[quote = "zales.vip"] This "white something" - what the exchanger takes place is the sediment that forms from the condensate. It also precipitates in steel exchangers. It can also clog the exchanger. Yes - the exchanger can do it, but - as I wrote about, after removing the exchanger you are able to clean it elegantly.
Also, exchangers with the same structure as in Immergas - can clog up with it. The downside - in this case it is - is that only the bottom of the exchanger extends, allowing the exchanger to continue operating. Unfortunately - this is not a plus, because when the bottom of the exchanger is clogged - there is no way to drain the condensate and I have encountered cases where the burner was flooded.

In the sales department you say ... then you definitely have experience in servicing devices and your knowledge is supported by practice.
Forgive me, but if you do not have any experience with the service with devices - do not write opinions heard only from installers. Installers often recommend or not only recommend devices that have some benefits. Service technicians have more experience because they work with devices for many years and see what happens with them during use. And here is a more honest and impartial opinion. [/ Quote

You do not read exactly what I am writing, I also wrote about service technicians because I also talked to many, and the topic of silicon-alu exchangers vs stainless steel is a river topic and it can be discussed as a long and wide river, and how many service technicians have so many opinions, but in my environment of service technicians after experience practical ones from the service technicians, claim that flints are much more dirty and more than stainless steel, and as we have already confirmed together, it is much more difficult to clean without a doubt, a lot depends on the model of the boiler, on how the combustion reaction takes place, and here it is I agree that inox has the right to clog up, but as I mentioned flints seem to be more. Of course, these are experiences transferred from the website and they are not my experience, but also they are not squeezed out of the finger, so I see no reason not to share these messages on the forum, everyone of course has the service of a given manufacturer or model and having their minds ask a few service technicians before making a purchase decision, I will remind you that my experience and these statements relate more to the Immergas company and especially I mentioned the TT boiler that it is faulty, as well as I compared the exchangers in general by the opinions of service technicians as well as installers who clean exchangers for people after warranty periods, So I have any idea of May.

As a curiosity, I will only add manufacturers who offer boilers with stainless steel exchangers and models with Al-Si exchangers, usually those with Al-Si, they put in more expensive models.
Moreover, the aforementioned producers often give a longer warranty for the Al-Si exchanger than for stainless steel. Why do you think? Why is the longer operation of the "inferior" exchanger guaranteed?

zales.vip wrote:

As a curiosity, I will only add manufacturers who offer boilers with stainless steel exchangers and models with Al-Si exchangers, usually those with Al-Si, they put in more expensive models.
Moreover, the aforementioned producers often give a longer warranty for the Al-Si exchanger than for stainless steel. Why do you think? Why is the longer operation of the "inferior" exchanger guaranteed?

I agree that the material is more durable, but I still say that clogging occurs faster than in stainless steel, which may lead to more frequent faults, lower efficiency and is more time-consuming and complicated to clean, so it is worth considering the choice here, the same with the guarantee because more often It collapses, the more frequent visit of the service technician, and as we know, the visit is about PLN 200 minimum every year and I know that and more often service technicians have to go to the silicones and rub their hands, so as a more durable material, I agree, but is it profitable from an economic point of view where the cost of the purchase and the cost of living much more? It has to be everyone think for himself and make a choice Pozdro.

As for alu-silicon exchangers, the pluses are more durable, not so prone to scale (monoblock), minuses are more easily polluted on the flue gas side due to the construction, sometimes the exchanger has to be removed to clean it, hence more expensive inspections (e.g. mcr 3)
Stainless steel, greater tolerance to pollution from combustion, but much easier to build up with scale on the water side (coil), their service life is shorter than that of alu silicon.
As for stainless steel, most models on the market, regardless of the brand, have the same exchangers differing in a few details and in many cases compatible with each other.
Each boiler should be serviced every year, regardless of the exchanger, if properly serviced, it will serve a long time.
I can advise one thing, take the boiler for which you have a good service in the area, because what if the installer will sell it if there will be no one to service it.

dobroslaw wrote:

As for alu-silicon exchangers, the pluses are more durable, not so prone to scale (monoblock), minuses are more easily polluted on the flue gas side due to the construction, sometimes the exchanger has to be removed to clean it, hence more expensive inspections (e.g. mcr 3)
Stainless steel, greater tolerance to pollution from combustion, but much easier to build up with scale on the water side (coil), their service life is shorter than that of alu silicon.
As for stainless steel, most models on the market, regardless of the brand, have the same exchangers differing in a few details and in many cases compatible with each other.
Each boiler should be serviced every year, regardless of the exchanger, if properly serviced, it will serve a long time.
I can advise one thing, take the boiler for which you have a good service in the area, because what if the installer will sell it if there will be no one to service it.

Oh, matter-of-fact say, and with this I agree 100% ?, and I know what to choose, but I could not decide on the modulation between specific models, one of which modulates from 4.3 kw and the other from 5.7 kw, skipping the company because the discussion will start soon lobbying supporters of a given brand, the question is whether to buy a newer boiler that does not have much opinion with a lower modulation or an older one that is proven to be higher, but with the opinion of the website the newer one with lower modulation is also successful, so I think I will decide on it.

Hello.
Let me join the topic and ask experts for help in choosing a furnace.
Namely, I am now facing the same challenge as the assuming topic.
Which stove to buy: Dedietrich or Vaillant.
I am in the process of building a small guesthouse which will be open 3-4 months a year.
The designer based the design of my boiler room on the Dedietrich company, namely the MCA 45 single-function stove and a 500 l collecting container.
Does anyone of you have any experience / opinions about this stove?
It is also possible to replace it with a Vaillant solution: ECO Plus 486 / 5-5 with a 500 l container
I attach a diagram from the documentation.
Best regards and thank you very much for constructive replies.

If I were you, I would choose a Vaillant boiler, but not a hanging one - only a standing VKK Link or his twin brother Saunier Duval KKS Link . Both are available with a maximum power of ~ 48kW. They are simple to build - because there is nothing there - only an exchanger (80 l water pot with flue gas coils) and a burner. The rest of the elements are installed in the boiler room - normal, commercially available, not some fancy and suitable only for the given model of the boiler. You do not need a hydraulic clutch, because the boiler (its capacity) is one big hydraulic clutch). Fabulously simple service and inspection.
Write something like this.

To facility Ala guesthouse Consider the options of two 24kW boilers in a cascade. It will be more expensive, but you gain greater security of business continuity.
If one catches a fault, the other one will pull somehow on a smaller parameter and the residents have relatively warm water and relatively warm.
And imagine a situation where there is only one boiler. He died in the high season and the service technician says he will arrive in 2-3 days.
In the cascade - lower the water temperature slightly, lower the temperature of the radiators slightly and wait for the three days. And when the whole thing falls ...

Thank you very much for the answers.
The Dedietrich stove is supported by the fact that the entire solution with pumps, etc., is about PLN 5,000 cheaper than Vaillant.
Apparently, the problems with cleaning them from the top (as mentioned in the topic) do not apply to the furnaces above 35 KW.
However, I am not 100% convinced all the time. Vaillant, however, is a proven form and I have never had any contact with Dedietrich.
With these 2 tanks, that's a valuable note ... I'll have to rethink it ... thanks.
Below I am sending examples of price lists that I have received from suppliers ... maybe someone will comment on this.
From what I noticed, there is probably too much for one collecting vessel in the Vaillant price list.
best regards

Dietrich makes some nice kettles. Or at least - in my opinion, certainly not different from others.
The more powerful Dietrich will also require the exchanger to be removed from time to time for a solid cleaning - I can assure you.
As for the cascade - you only have two boilers. One water tray.

the more so that the KOSPEL company, which produces the exchangers, is from my city of Koszalin

This strange valuation from Vaillant.
It includes:
item No. 7 - CS 500 heater
item No. 8 - VIH R 500 heater
Will it be 2 tealights? Or only 1? This SC 500 is cheaper than Vaillant for ~ 6,900 PLN.
Or you can take the Kospel CS 500 instead.

If Vaillant - then really consider VKK - something like this: Link
Or his twin brother Saunier Duval KKS - something like this: Link
You don't have to clutch.

Added after 7 [minutes]:

Another thing about the valuation:
The project includes an expansion vessel for DHW Reflex 18 DD!
And they all have 18 DE in their offers.
According to the regulations, DD should be used and mounted on a special "flow" connection

Take de dietrich. Especially if you have a service in the area. Spare parts are much cheaper in the event of an accident in DC. I have mcr home myself. The boiler is quiet, looks good, is not too big and has not had a serious fault yet, even though I have had it for almost two years now.

... "It has a different service menu and lower modulations from 4.3 kw compared to 5.7 kw in exa which seems to be a plus" ...
With this modulation, if it goes down with a power of 4.3 and you have, let's say, 10 radiators in the house (and often there are more of them), for each one it will release at least 4.3 / 10 = 430W, with 5.7 it will be 5.7 / 10 = 570W heating power (using simplifications). Note that the lower the better but it is only 140W of difference on the radiator in the room. Whatever it is, it matters a lot, but with such a difference, the thing is almost imperceptible. The most important thing is to choose so that it works at 30% of power for the longest period of time, which ensures the highest overall efficiency.

Hello;
Let me ask you a question on the subject. I am thinking of replacing the gas boiler. We are currently fired with coal and we heat water in the Galmet 200l exchanger. In summer, a Junkers Euroline ZW 23 KE boiler (DHW on the ground floor) and a Termet boiler (DHW on the first floor) are used. I want to replace the Junkers with a newer boiler that will heat central heating (ground floor and first floor) as well as DHW (only the ground floor of the building). I am interested in the closed combustion chamber. The area to be heated is about 300 m2, the building is insulated, plastic windows. Different installers propose different De Dietrich boilers (supposedly 5 years warranty), Termet Integra II or Vaillant vc EcoTec Pro. The boiler is to be installed in place of the old one. According to the installers, the old chimney must be fitted with a chimney system from the ground floor to the 2nd floor and the attic. I am asking for help in choosing a boiler. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.