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Selecting the Right Differential for an Induction Hob: 11kW 3ph TN-C System & 2x240V Wiring Needs

yashu 30177 10
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  • #1 18187030
    yashu
    Level 11  
    Hello,

    On the occasion of a major renovation in the apartment, I decided to give up using gas in favor of an induction hob. It is a small flat (40m2) in a block from the 60s with an old single-phase, two-wire aluminum wiring, so I would like to replace everything with copper with a protective conductor. The connection power has already been increased to 11kW 3ph (TN-C system, overcurrent protection in the C20 staircase).

    Planned protections:
    Selecting the Right Differential for an Induction Hob: 11kW 3ph TN-C System & 2x240V Wiring Needs

    I'd like your opinion on two things:

    1) Should a four-circuit differential be used as protection for an induction hob?
    From what I've noticed, the induction hobs I've seen so far are actually two-phase powered, i.e. 2x240V with the possibility of connecting to two independent circuits (i.e. L1-N1 and L2-N2). I have not yet come across a board that would be powered from 400V phase-to-phase, e.g. in a delta configuration. Therefore, if I use the connection as shown in the diagram with the common N wire, there is a risk that in the event of a discontinuity in the N path, there will be a voltage above 240V, which may damage the electronics controlling the board. But in that case, should each phase be pulled to the plate separately with a separate neutral wire? What solution is the most secure for the board (and its users), and at the same time the most universal and "future-proof"? (as of today, I still don't know which album I will finally buy)

    2) Is it a good idea to use a 10mA differential for the bathroom socket?
    As you know, the bathroom is the most sensitive room when it comes to the risk of electric shock, so I would like it to be as safe as possible. On the other hand, I do not know what the leakage in the washing machine can be and whether it will not end up with too frequent disconnection of the RCD when in fact nothing dangerous is really happening. In this case, would it be better to connect the bathroom together with the sockets in the rooms to a common circuit protected with a standard RCD 30mA and B16, supplying it from the L2 phase?

    Of course, I will be grateful if you point out any other errors you spot.

    Thank you and best regards.
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  • #2 18187081
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • Helpful post
    #3 18187228
    stonefree
    Level 27  
    yashu wrote:
    1) Should a four-circuit differential be used as protection for an induction hob?

    Yes, it is a universal and future-proof solution.
    Erbit wrote:
    Is it a good idea to use a 10mA differential for the bathroom socket?

    No, it is enough to take care of the other conditions that will ensure effective protection.
    Erbit wrote:
    I would connect the lighting in each room to a separate overcurrent switch. Reason? Well, in the event of a short circuit, you lose lighting throughout the apartment and look for the cause in the dark
    This is an exaggeration and unnecessary extravagance, because in a well-made installation, short-circuits practically do not happen, and with a typical selection of protection devices, the pre-meter protection is switched off anyway in the event of a short-circuit.
    Moderated By Topolski Mirosław:

    The cause of the short-circuit is usually the receivers.

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  • Helpful post
    #4 18187240
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    jashu wrote:
    1) Should a four-circuit differential be used as protection for an induction hob?
    Is it included in the instructions for connecting the hob, since the device will be permanently connected, and in this case there is no obligation to apply supplementary protection.
    The same applies to lighting in the apartment (apart from the bathroom).
  • Helpful post
    #5 18187280
    Topolski Mirosław
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    Kitchenette:
    A separate circuit powering the induction hob and separate circuits for other sockets.
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  • #6 18187646
    yashu
    Level 11  
    elpapiotr wrote:
    Is it included in the instructions for connecting the hob, since the device will be permanently connected, and in this case there is no obligation to apply supplementary protection.

    Most manuals I've looked at don't mention it, although some do. For example:

    Electrolux - https://www.electrolux-ui.com/DocumentDownLoad.aspx?DocURL=2015%5C867%5C322578umEN.pdf
    Page 5 - "Make sure shock protection is installed."

    Miele - https://www.miele.pl/pmedia/ZGA/TX3587/9896080-000-01_9896080-01.pdf
    Page 67 - "In order to increase safety, it is recommended to precede the device with a residual current device with a tripping current of 30 mA"

    IKEA - https://www.ikea.com/pl/pl/manuals/matmassig-p-yta-indukcyjna__AA-2025353-3.pdf
    Page 7 - "Ensure Shock Protection Is Installed"
    In addition, there is a diagram on page 11, which shows that there is only one N terminal in this model, which would mean that only a four-way differential is involved.

    As I mentioned before, I don't know which board I will buy yet, so I would like to choose the most universal solution that will not limit me (both when buying a board now and in the event of a possible replacement in the future)

    elpapiotr wrote:
    The same applies to the lighting in the apartment (except the bathroom).

    In the case of lighting, for my own safety, I prefer to install an RCD, especially since here there is no risk of damaging the equipment as in the case of an induction hob.
  • #7 18188349
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    yashu wrote:
    1) Should a four-circuit differential be used as protection for an induction hob?

    Is an induction hob a threat without an RCD? Or maybe without this apparatus, protection against electric shock does not exist?
    Has your colleague read sheet 4-41 which explains where the use of RCDs is mandatory?

    yashu wrote:
    2) Is it a good idea to use a 10mA differential for the bathroom socket?
    Or maybe it's better to consider removing the nests from this room?
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  • #8 18188352
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    kkas12 wrote:
    Or maybe it's better to consider removing the nests from this room?
    I can't. Because of the washing machine. :D
  • #9 18188603
    yashu
    Level 11  
    kkas12 wrote:
    Is an induction hob a threat without an RCD? Or maybe without this apparatus, protection against electric shock does not exist?
    Has your colleague read sheet 4-41 which explains where the use of RCDs is mandatory?


    A friend of mine explained it above elpapetr - RCD is not required here.
    It will be cheaper, so nothing but enjoy.

    I'm just wondering why one of the manufacturers recommends (Miele) in the instruction manual of its RCD and another even requires (IKEA)?
    In addition, this model from IKEA is one of those I considered buying ...
  • #10 18189595
    yashu
    Level 11  
    Thank you all for your replies.

    To sum up:
    1) There is no need to use an RCD for a permanently connected induction hob. The other outlets in the kitchen should be on a separate circuit.
    2) For a bathroom outlet, the use of a 10mA RCD will not significantly increase safety.

    Corrected scheme:
    Selecting the Right Differential for an Induction Hob: 11kW 3ph TN-C System & 2x240V Wiring Needs
  • #11 18190240
    zbich70
    Level 43  
    Gentlemen! Enough!
    3. When answering, try to reply to the AUTHOR of the topic, not to the next discussants.

    My friend marcus-19 , the previous speakers have sufficiently explained that the use of the RCD is not mandatory in the present case, although it is not prohibited. Therefore, please do not provoke unnecessary discussions in someone else's topic, and to discuss your theses and doubts, please create your own.
    The author of this topic has received an exhaustive answer.
    closing.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the installation of an induction hob in a small apartment, focusing on the appropriate differential protection. The user seeks advice on whether to use a four-circuit differential for the induction hob, which operates on a two-phase 240V system. Responses indicate that while a residual current device (RCD) is not mandatory for permanently connected induction hobs, separate circuits for other kitchen outlets are recommended. Some manufacturers, like Miele and IKEA, suggest or require RCDs in their manuals, leading to a debate on safety standards. The consensus is that effective protection can be achieved without an RCD, provided the installation is well-executed.
Summary generated by the language model.
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