PEX Pipe Plumbing: F-Type Jaws Vs TH Jaws for Castorama Connections - Tight, No Leaks?

Hello, I think I have a problem. The case looks like this, I do plumbing in the bathroom and CO. I bought plastic pipes and connectors in castorama. I have a crimper, but no jaws. A friend of the plumber gave me F type jaws. The installations were finished, everything was tight, but I started reading and I felt sick. Apparently, TH jaws should be for the PEX system from Castorama .... What should I do now? The installation has been tight for 3 days, no leaks. I am enclosing photos of fittings, jaws and the clamped fitting.


Added after 1 [hours] 12 [minutes]:

Can someone comment? I care about time.
greetings

What are you gonna do?
Either disassemble and reassemble with appropriate jaws, or cut off the clamped couplings and reattach them, but then you will have to add a large number of muffs. You can also leave and pray that it does not flood the apartment. It is not as bad as it is your own house, but if it is a flat in a block of flats, and there are tenants below, you need to keep a large bag with money to pay any claims, because the Insurance Company will not pay you if you have an insurance policy. In the event of flooding, they will send an expert, and if he finds out that the wrong tool has been used, he will come out HERE and you will not have the slightest chance of winning in court.

You can also outsource the work to someone who has an idea about it and has the appropriate tools. There are many types of jaws. The most popular types are TH, U and B. But there are also FH, C and many others.
The systems from Castorama, from what I know, were 2 - for the TH and U or B jaws.
Now I will not write you exactly, because I do not buy things such as pipes and fittings at Castorama, because the materials must be reliable. Unfortunately, in Castorama, Pex is not of the best quality. Same with the rest of the couplings.
The only plus is that Castorama borrowed crimping tools.

Got it, thanks for the answer. But I don't understand one thing, why is everything tight now? And if I do a leakage test, the installation will withstand this test, does the whole installation still have to be dismantled?

It is tight because they hold o-rings for now. Will it be tight later, no one can guarantee you. Each type of connector must be crimped with a dedicated tool. Such a tool kneads the ring in specific places of a defined shape with a specified force. How can you be sure that the F jaw pressed the pex with the appropriate force to ensure tightness, or that it did not press too hard and did not break the brass connector? The spigot may not have completely broken off yet, but the fracture may continue to develop and reveal itself in a year or two, flooding the entire house.
Nobody will answer the question whether you can change individual types of jaws, because nobody will consciously risk clenching with a different type of jaw than they should.
What you will do with it, I do not know, but I would simply do this installation from scratch, using good, branded materials and appropriate tools. Then I would be sure that I minimized the risk.

On the occasion of your question "But I don't understand one thing, why is everything tight now?"
At one time my brother-in-law was renovating his own bathroom in the block of flats. I gave him a press, calibrator, scissors to take with him. I told him to count how many fittings and pipes he needed and he called me and I would bring him materials from the warehouse.
But he didn't listen to me, he just went straight from me to Castorama, where he bought pipes and fittings. Since I couldn't reach him, I took more material and in the evening I drove up to him to leave the material, because I couldn't before. He opens the door for me and to me with these words: "Come on with that shit .... pex. I clenched and at first everything was tight, but I sat down to eat dinner, and here it started to pour. It's good that I haven't left the apartment yet. because I would flood my neighbors. I went to Castorama, I bought PP pipes and fittings and a welding machine, and I did everything from PP. "
It is true that everything he did with pex, he threw into the trash. We went to the dumpster and dug a couple of connectors. Despite being tightened, they were quite loose. Probably the pipes or the couplings did not meet the standard or were under a different jaw. The pipes rotated very freely in the clamped couplings.
When he was building the house, I used to do all the plumbing and CO for him. He was very distrustful and skeptical about pexa. I really tried to convince him for a long time that such a situation would not happen again if we were going to make the material that I would bring. At his request, I had to make hydraulic system couplings in such places that would be accessible to them.

Plumpi , I have a question. Have you ever insured your apartment? Have you liquidated the claim? Probably not, since you are writing such nonsense.

Maybe crimp one or more couplings on the pex and cut open to see how tight it is. Or you can clamp with two dedicated jaws and compare. Unless there are a few pieces and there is an approach with a spare tube or the possibility of splitting it, tear it and do it on branded connectors as it should.
But it is not said that what you did is wrong.

If I cut it, I will not see anything, only the wedding ring, and the brass part with o-rings will probably be whole ...

Moderated By Mirek Z.:

I removed the redundant quote from the previous post.

Are you sure this is an F-profile jaw? The F profile leaves a different trace after tightening:
http://www.valsir.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/B_SYSTEM-WIELOWARSTWOWY_L02629000_PL.pdf page 16.

I'm not sure, but it looks to me what you have for a copper pipe profile.

Do there always have to be people on the forum who cannot express their opinion in any other way than by discrediting and insulting others?

I have insured and insured the flat and house. I was dealing with a damage due to a broken washing machine hose at my neighbor's.
But apart from that, I worked for several years as an insurance agent for one of the insurance companies. I went to training and integration events attended by the entire management, agents, claims adjusters, and many things were discussed, and the languages always dissolve during the booze.
Each branch of TU has its so-called Claims adjusters who go to the inspection and appraisal of minor claims and "look for a hole in the whole". When the damage is greater, HERE has entire departments of specialists, which they pay, among others for savings on compensation.

ewoo wrote:

Are you sure this is an F-profile jaw? The F profile leaves a different trace after tightening:
http://www.valsir.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/B_SYSTEM-WIELOWARSTWOWY_L02629000_PL.pdf page 16.

I'm not sure, but it looks to me what you have for a copper pipe profile.

@ Reksio351 I searched, but it was the F-profile clamps, I was confused by the shape of the clamps imprint on the pipe on the Valsir website. A colleague who lent you the clamps brought or bought them abroad, because none of the well-known manufacturers like; Comap, Geberit, Henco, Herz, Kan, Kisan, Oventrop, Perfexim, Tweetop, Viega, Viessmann, Wavin do not use F-profile clamps for their pipes. Only Sanha and Valsir.
The guarantee of a tight connection is the use of a connector dedicated to a given pipe and clamping it with clamps with a profile recommended by the manufacturer of the pipe and fittings. The fact that it is not leaking now does not mean that it will not start in a moment. I know of cases of leaks revealed after a few months, which caused me, I do not know, but I know one thing, it is not profitable to leave it as it is. When it starts to fall down one by one, even without sudden spills flooding your neighbor, you will regret it anyway. A gentle leak will get wet, i.e. stains, then fungus and picking every few months and removing these defects, choosing a paint to paint over a piece or forging flagstone and constant muck at home.
As PLUMPI wrote, Castorama is not a place to buy good, proven materials. It is supposed to be cheap there and they do not care about anything else and that they give a guarantee? You lost it when the pliers touched the coupler. One renovation will consume more money than what you lost on this installation. Cut it out and throw it out, Buy a pipe and fittings, e.g. Wavin, rent a U-profile press and clamps from a rental company, use a calibrator when inserting the fittings and then you will sleep peacefully. Good luck.

Thanks, So it's a headache .... One more thing, if I pressurize it and it's ok, then you have to take it apart and put in a new one anyway?
Greetings.

Mierzejewski46 wrote:

Unless there are a few pieces and there is an approach with a spare tube or the possibility of splitting it, tear it and do it on branded connectors as it should.

It is risky to use couplings and pipes from other manufacturers. I used Henco 20 pipe and Henco couplings, but I got 16, if I remember correctly, it was Roth, and there was a zonk. 16 the pipe fits very loosely on the couplings and after tightening it, it was possible to turn the connector in the pipe very loosely. I took no chances, the work was interrupted until the Henco tube arrived.

Added after 11 [minutes]:

Reksio351 wrote:

Thanks, So it's a headache .... One more thing, if I pressurize it and it's ok, then you have to take it apart and put in a new one anyway?
Greetings.

As you have noticed, the connector has o-rings and the clamps knead the sleeve in non-random places. It is developed by the manufacturer and certainly takes into account temperature changes and thus the expansion of the material, aging and loss of elasticity of the rubber from which the o-rings are made, etc. a leak may occur through the outer sleeve at this point. And it would be great if this leak was now all over. When it seeps in the wall, as I wrote earlier.

I would describe this job like this: it was done anyhow, and it could be at home for sale to the enemy, so that he would have something to do in the near or distant future.
If the system of compression fittings were not very precise, the manufacturer of presses and clamps would not recommend that the press and clamps be calibrated once a year (let no one write that it is for the sake of earning money on the service) because leaks appear during operation and something had to be done. cause them.

Overall, I did very little in pex.
But I made underfloor heating myself and has been using it for ten years. And it's twisted.
Back then, there was no access to cheap kneading systems in my area.
One plumber had it, and he valued himself like the Queen of England.
I twisted it all up, Wavin fittings and pipes. So many years and not a drop. I have an insight because of the entrance to the basement. I have four loops from this floorstand, on RTLs.

But the bolted system is not that sensitive to the selection of pipes and fittings from different manufacturers. If it is only made in such a way that there is access to each connector and you can always tighten such a connector, in my opinion it is a 100% reliable system. The disadvantage of these twisted couplings is that the nuts can loosen over time. Therefore, they are not used in places that are inaccessible, e.g. in walls or screeds.
When it comes to press systems, as ewoo has already written, dedicated pipes and fittings should be used. They do not necessarily have to be from the same manufacturer, but indicated by the manufacturers.

As for the bolted systems, I agree with you. If there is an overview of the couplings, no problem. And you can "adjust" the pipe to the fitting by tightening the nut on the fitting. I have had the dubious pleasure of sealing leaks on fittings in a house. Fittings at the manifold and the radiators have dropped. At the radiators, the installer released the pipes in the furrows and finished the angular pex 16x1 / 2gz connector, then he screwed the 1/2 "extension into it, going onto the radiator and the angle valve to the radiator. The problem was that the installation with a coal boiler and the closed system. He boiled water several times and even though the couplings were tightened tightly, it was still running. to the boiler and 5 years of peace since then.

We have connected the DHW tank for 9 years on the perfexim screw connectors (rather, it is not a quality model), of course, access is available, it works without any problems. Despite this, I have never used bolted into walls or floors.

A colleague Reksio351 has a different problem because there are many connectors in the installation and they will probably be unavailable.

Apparently, the clamped ones do not throttle the flow so much. They have a larger inner diameter and what would my colleague advise.
The advice to replace the whole thing is the easiest. If it is not too expensive for the material to replace and not to think. Or maybe there is no difference, or not at all, in the way you tighten the stones, or how loosely you just pull it by force and tighten it properly.
My friends are about to tear my head off for tinkering, but "she is tied well with wire, she also holds it well".

Reksio351 wrote:

Hello, I think I have a problem. The case is, I do plumbing in the bathroom and CO.

I would start from the very beginning, that is, from the assumptions.
You may want to install hot and cold tap water in two ways:
- a tee system where the shut-off valves are located on the outlets of the installation
- a distributor system where independent threads are led to each piece of equipment and the receipts are cut off at the distributor.

The first concept is usually a bit cheaper, and the optimal choice of technology is welded PP - mainly due to the monolithic nature of the joints that will remain unavailable.
The second concept is better to handle and the optimal material choice is PEX. The connectors located at the ends of the threads - at the manifold and at the accessories - are available for the service.

You made a hybrid by combining the disadvantages of both concepts.

If I were you, I'd start over until you have tiles on the walls.

Until I regained my account to write a comment. Do not listen to these "professionals" from seven pains after the traces on the connector, you can see that it has been tightened, let's say well in the right places, I would have left it far away with the appropriate matrix 8. Do not listen to these tags because they would do you even worse in the cottage and you think what would happen then, would they buy you new ones, of course that they would give it to you against the wall

[quote = "qua8"]

Quote:

Until I regained my account to write a comment. Do not listen to these "professionals" from seven pains after the traces on the connector you can see that it has been tightened, let's say well

how many percent, let's say well, because you are not sure

Quote:

in the right places I would far away corrected with the corresponding matrix 8 left.

Maybe you will indicate the right places, anyway, you can see that you have no idea how crimping the connectors looks like.

Quote:

Do not listen to these symbols because they would do you even worse in the cottage and you think what would happen then, would they buy you new ones, of course that they would give it to you against the wall

have you done so already? Besides, do you think the author didn't do anything about it for a month? I doubt it.

qua8 wrote:

Until I regained my account to write a comment. Do not listen to these "professionals" from seven pains after the traces on the connector, you can see that it has been tightened, let's say well in the right places, I would have left it far away with the appropriate matrix 8. Do not listen to these tags because they would do you even worse in the cottage and you think what would happen then, would they buy you new ones, of course that they would give it to you against the wall

I understand that you provide the author of the thread with a guarantee for your advice?

Please let me know if a pipe from an Italian manufacturer with a diameter of 26mm can be clamped with some type of jaw, but with a size of 25? I made such a mistake that, following the opinions and what to hide the quality of these pipes, I bought 26mm (instead of 25, e.g. from wavin) and it is already hidden behind the wall. And now I'm starting the departures, the first 26x20x20. Can you save yourself a twisted 26x20x20, because the cost and tightening of only one connector in this place will be hundreds of zlotys or even a thousand; / Because I can rent up to 16, 20.25 for U-type wavins for about 100-200 zlotys

krzyszob wrote:

Should you save yourself a twisted 26x20x20, because the cost of tightening only one connector in this place will be hundreds of zlotys or even a thousand; /

Where does this price come from?
26 is just as available as 25

krzyszob wrote:

Please let me know if a pipe from an Italian manufacturer with a diameter of 26mm can be clamped with some type of jaw, but with a size of 25?
I made such a mistake that, following the opinions and what to hide the quality of these pipes, I bought 26mm (instead of 25, e.g. from wavin) and it is already hidden behind the wall. And now I'm starting the departures, the first 26x20x20. Can you save yourself a twisted 26x20x20, because the cost and tightening of only one connector in this place will be hundreds of zlotys or even a thousand; / Because I can rent up to 16, 20.25 for U-type wavins for about 100-200 zlotys

You need to clamp with the right jaw.
You have not given the manufacturer of the couplings or their type. How do we know what these connectors are and what to clamp them with?
Generally, if you have 26 couplings, do not press jaw 25
In addition, you need to know what pipe you have and what fittings you have, because the manufacturer determines what kind of jaws clamps a specific type of fittings, and there is a lot of it.
Do you write some Italian - maybe it's about Emmeti?
If so, read the statements in a similar thread:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3787323.html#19325221

Connectors screwed only on the top, because they can loosen with time and you need to be able to tighten them.

I wrote PW, parandelle joint, parandel pipes, the matrix found in place is REMS B26. The only question is whether prandelli can be tightened B

Good morning,
During the finishing of the bathroom, the contractor moved the water and sewage point of the washbasin and used pex idmar connectors from castorama. From what I can see, the valves were pressed in the TH system, but looking at the manufacturer's website, these couplings should be pressed in the U system.
The joint is in the floor, for one day there was definitely no leakage, but then it poured concrete and laid tiles.
Should I be afraid of anything? There is no leakage, but the question is how long will it last?
I've read various comments and I don't know anymore.

greetings

ld87 wrote:

Should I be afraid of anything?

If he says it should be "U" it shouldn't be "TH". You can think about it for years, get scared and paranoid, or live a normal life and not think about it. At most, a leak will occur in both cases at the latest. When will it happen and will it happen at all? Who knows that. You want to appease your conscience, cut it open, cut it out, make it as it should be.

ld87 wrote:

but the question is how long will it last?

No offense, but there is no "Clairvoyant" section on this forum because only there you can ask such a question. The manufacturer develops a system and certain conditions must be met for it to work. If it is combined, it may work, but there are no tables or other studies on how it will work and for how long.

Hey I also have a similar problem, I also clamped the U-shapes, with a TH press except that it is a summer house. I let the water run, there are no leaks. Should I leave it or use the right press again? Unless I get a U-press and clamp the fittings again. Greetings 😉 .