Replacement of water pipes in the bathroom. Which system to choose?

Hello. I am getting ready to renovate the bathroom in a block of concrete. I have to run the entire new water installation from the meter to the washing machine, cabin, washbasin and suspended toilet. I wonder what kind of installation to use. I hesitate between Pex and PP. Maybe some of you have experience with these pipes and their way of connecting and would like to share. I am asking for advice and guidance on specific companies that you recommend. Should the possible purchase of pipes and fittings in DIY stores be taken into account or should be sought in stores that typically sell these elements ..

You will do it yourself and what tools do you have - because if there are no tools, you have to add their cost.

I have no tools. There is a rental with us .. or if I decided to use PP, I could buy a welding machine .. cost from 100-170 PLN ..

PP fittings are cheaper, so they are economically better and simpler to implement
But I don't like them

Twisted Pex does not require expensive tools. I did both, I believe that PP connections are more reliable than Pex, but they also have disadvantages such that in my opinion they are less resistant to mechanical damage. Pex gives up more under some stress.
And for PP welding, you need to have some experience to warm up well, not overheat, and it was right (the beginnings are difficult, a few joints will pass before you get it.)
I go more in PEX, I have to pull PP already when I have to

I thought about Pex, but twisted. I would get a few threads in the wall, and everywhere to avoid it .. But how is it possible to cover the thread so that the thread does not come into direct contact with the concrete, it shouldn't be a problem?

The most important thing in Pex is to use such a tool https://toya24.pl/product-pol-10008828-kalibrator-do-rur-PEX-AL-PEX-10x16-12x20-14x26.html
otherwise you will damage the O-rings and there will be problems.
With Pex, it is not a problem that it is in contact with concrete or not. There are theories that they can get off the ground, although I haven't seen it myself yet.

No twisted connections in the wall and anywhere with no access.
It will take revenge sooner or later. I don't like to "leave" somewhere tight, but they will still go away. Make in Welded PP. Practice on a few blocks, take good quality materials. Plan what to do and in what order, because you can enter a dead end, i.e. a place where you cannot, for example, insert a welding machine. Provide the possibility of elongation of the pipes and their "work". (Lagging, foam)

12pawel wrote:

The most important thing in Pex is to use such a tool https://toya24.pl/product-pol-10008828-kalibrator-do-rur-PEX-AL-PEX-10x16-12x20-14x26.html
otherwise you will damage the O-rings and there will be problems.

I think it will be better with a deburrer ... https://toya24.pl/product-pol-10008870-kalibr...nikiem-do-rur-PEX-AL-PEX-16-20-26mm.html?rec= 101871201

Added after 18 [minutes]:

Romulus7874 wrote:

No twisted connections in the wall and anywhere with no access.
Make in Welded PP. Practice on a few blocks, take good quality materials.

Is it worth buying in Castorama or OBI, or in some plumbing stores?

Is there a specific company or does it not really matter?

Disconnecting a well-mounted PEX is impossible, you have to tear off the outer layer with the ring and it must be well over 100 kg because I hung on such a jerk and nothing.
Secondly, I have compressed air installations on the pex and the pipe 18 calmly withstands 15 bar. and the thinner 16 for sure more.

Ssaab wrote:

Is it worth buying in Castorama or OBI, or in some plumbing stores?

In ObI, I try not to buy, because contrary to appearances, it is not cheap at all. And in the rest of the supermarkets, cheap but with rice. Pipes and fittings from the same manufacturers only. It's about the PP composition, the same, but who knows ...
When it comes to hydraulic, you have a wider choice, because there are always two or three producers in the lead and the prices are also adequate. I heard / read somewhere about unscrewing threads (inserts) from elbows or PP couplings but it did not happen to me. Maybe someone has worse experiences.

How to buy company pipes and fittings online.

Hello my neighbor from the Tri-City :)

I use and recommend the Tece Flex system.
Dear but in my opinion one of the best, I use this one, maybe because I have trouble-free access to it with a considerable discount
I also have my own tools.
Here is a small digression, I do not know about other manufacturers, but the Tece company services the tools for its systems on its own and at its own expense. According to a friend from an installation wholesaler, he does it so that there are no complaints resulting from improper installation, the use of worn out, broken tools.

Romulus7874 wrote:

No twisted connections in the wall and anywhere with no access.
It will take revenge sooner or later.

I sign it with my arms and legs ;)


In fact, if you are interested in this system, write Pw, I will try to help

Find some local peksa company, they have crimping tools, calibrators and other tools for rent.

I recommend PP, it is simple for an amateur and cheap. Cheap tubes, cheap fittings. Shopping is best in a local store, they are often cheaper than in a yellow, green or other market, and you do not feel rice with it, as mentioned above by my colleague. The only bigger tool you need is a PP welder, which you can also rent for pennies. Of all these systems, you'll have the least fun, get the hang of quickly and get what you need.

I recommend welding pipes. Once I saw how the plumber was doing it and then for a few gold coins I borrowed a welding machine and made the installation for the dishwasher myself. No philosophy. It is very fun to work with this pipe system. When I remember how much they once had to work with metal, it hurts.
A plumber advised me to buy "high-end" producers for hot water.

Just like colleagues above PP and so many cheap fittings and a welding machine for a few zlotys, all crimped systems are ok and only expensive couplings and you have to rent a problem with machines

Now you can buy a welder, e.g. Dedra, which comes complete with everything you need.
https://www.bricoman.pl/narzedzia-reczne/narz...warki/ded-zgrzewarka-do-rur-z-tw-termop-1500w

It costs half as much as a Pex crimper, and leaks ... these happen in both PP and Pex ... you can see on YouTube ...

Depends on how much work you have. I paid PLN 20 for renting a welding machine per day.

I made myself out of copper. It is very nice to solder, although you know - copper is expensive. However, as much of this installation is not to be done, copper may be a good choice.

Can also be made of PEX pipes. However, I warn you against buying pipes and fittings in supermarkets. You need to buy a proven manufacturer. I have two friends of plumbers and they only use Kisan materials, which are produced domestically. They then provide a written guarantee. They argue that you wouldn't dare install supermarket pipes. There have been times when they burst, or begin to leak suddenly in some place.
I also encountered such a situation. Suddenly, at my father-in-law's bathroom, there was a stain on the wall. We started hammering the tiles to get to the pipes. It turned out that more or less in the middle of one cold water pipe, a hair-like micro-hole was formed - as if someone had forged it with a needle. But from this there was a meter-long trickle of water under pressure! The pipes were unknown to the manufacturer. I suspect it is from China, because we did not find any company markings. We exchanged the whole thing for Kisan. The pipes really look decent and the couplings are also precisely made. If you decide on PEX, buy Kisan or another good and proven company. Kisan is more expensive than market china, but you can be sure that it will last for years.
However, PEX, despite the fact that it is popular, is precisely from the above-mentioned. because of this system I am afraid.

And there are PP welding pipes. It is durable and easy to install and quite cheap. However, these pipes are unfortunately quite thick and this sometimes gets in the way of their use. However, well-welded ones have no right to leak and even along the length of the pipe, due to the thickness of the material, it is unlikely to be liquid.

^ToM^ wrote:

I made myself out of copper. It is very nice to solder, although you know - copper is expensive. However, as much of this installation is not to be done, copper may be a good choice.

Also, I used to be exclusively for copper, but recently I have encountered two cases.
1. A hole in the pipe on a straight section, cold water - after 5 years,
2. A hole on the knee under the wooden floor on the circulation, the mist was flying, so that a stain was formed on the ceiling in the room below also about 5 years.

nuszek wrote:

^ToM^ wrote:

I made myself out of copper. It is very nice to solder, although you know - copper is expensive. However, as much of this installation is not to be done, copper may be a good choice.

Also, I used to be exclusively for copper, but recently I have encountered two cases.
1. A hole in the pipe on a straight section, cold water - after 5 years,
2. A hole on the knee under the wooden floor on the circulation, the mist was flying, so that a stain was formed on the ceiling in the room below also about 5 years.

Because it is copper and rice copper from supermarkets
Cheap and good until now :idea:

I, on the other hand, only use glued PVC for cold water.

I gave Hutmen copper pipes, but for CO. So far, although it's been 15 years, nothing has happened to it.

Good evening.
Based on my experience, I have the most important advice, after the installation, whether it is PP, PEX, copper or steel, you should perform the so-called water pressure test for several hours. Such a test will possibly detect defects in the material used. Last year, an installation made of copper flew in my cage the year before. Made by a "foreman" with experience who did not like the pressure test. In the apartment on the 2nd floor there is a tragedy, the parquet needs to be replaced throughout the apartment, the replacement of the fresh water installation combined with the removal of tiles in the kitchen and bathroom, and renovation of the apartment below. After forging it turned out that the copper tube from Hutmen had a defect. The breakdown was when they were at work. Please remember that even the most reputable manufacturer will not guarantee that the material will be perfect. As I worked, I had a case that the 2.3 mm ferochrome wire was leaky at a pressure of 25 atm. The delivery was only 2.5 tons and everything was included in the manufactured insulators. It was just a tragedy to sort out good plays. We sorted the productions under the pressure of 50 atm for several months. It worked, but the workload was amazing.

I only have experience with PP, but over a dozen years, We started with Aquatherm, green pipes and fittings, now various companies are flying, sometimes even from a supermarket, there were no major problems, even when connecting elements from different manufacturers. I believe that welding is feasible even for a layman, but you have to plan everything well, in case of a mistake you can cut (shorten, lengthen, etc.) The system is cheap and simple, it is worth buying average quality, rather not in a supermarket.

I, in turn, from my experience so far:
- Fail-safe Pex system (residential, heating and compressed air installations up to 8.5 bar)
- Galvanized twisted pipes (as above water and air), failure-free
- Copper pipes (water installation in the house) 10 years of peace and now with 3 leaks patched.
- PP welded pipes (water installation in the apartment) 2 times broken knee when connecting the washbasin.

I load PEX wherever I can, the installations are even 15 years old and I don't look.
PP, as my colleagues noticed, is a bit cumbersome to arrange due to the large dimensions of the fittings. I do not like the removal of the threads, for example, on a wall-mounted battery. In Pex, I have the option of screwing such a connector to a flat bar, such a flat bar determines the spacing of the terminals for the battery and their coplanarness. I put such a flat bar on decent pegs and then I can spin whatever I want. There is a lime in PP with this. Plastic delicate feet and later problems with sticking to the thread.

And my colleague Zbigniewsk said a very important thing
Pressure test. Before pouring the pipes / laying tiles, pressurize at least 120% of the pressure we will use (here it depends on the specific application and materials) and all imperfections should reveal themselves in time.

[quote = "rolii1234" The system is cheap and simple, it is worth buying average quality, rather not in the market. [/ quote]

PP. It is impossible to overestimate the fact that the welding machine costs less than PLN 100 for PP, the cutters and deburrs are also cheap. The pipes are cheap, in case of a mistake we cut them off and go on. This is cool about PP.
I recommend PP with a clear conscience to beginner plumbers.
If I were to build a new house, I would put PP wherever I could. It is a very durable material and the polyfusion weld is like a factory cast.

I read and read and ... I have a question - why the argument for choosing a system is the price?
Renovation of a bathroom, for example, is done every 10-15 years, which is the higher one-time expenditure on more expensive (and in my opinion more reliable) systems.

I'm not saying the PP system sucks, I don't use it. I use a system for which I can give a lifetime guarantee, which in relation to quality is not expensive at all.

Parowy wrote:

I'm not saying the PP system sucks, I don't use it.

I do not use it either, but I think it is good, what are the disadvantages of my colleague noticing it?
Why spend on something "better" when cheaper is just as good?

I am afraid that there is probably nothing more durable and reliable than PP. The fact that it will be the cheapest. Well, that's what happens sometimes. Just be happy.