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PV Installation Grounding on Steel Roof Tiles: Contractor Advice, TN-S System & Regulations

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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #31 18648282
    Jarek Kordalewski
    Level 18  
    theo33 wrote:
    But you cannot treat such a DC circuit as completely isolated from the ground and from other devices which, due to their function, may have contact with the N or PEN conductor.
    Especially in the case described, where we install photovoltaic modules with a metal casing on a metal roof, a DC circuit is created at the poles with a voltage of about 1000 V, this circuit is connected to an on-grid inverter which is connected to the power grid and even if it was a transformer inverter with With galvanic isolation, one of the DC poles has ground potential through internal connections, not to mention those currently used without galvanic isolation.

    So, connecting such a structure with an equipotential bonding cable to the ground would increase the risk of electric shock? so be more dangerous ????
    And yet do you recommend the potential equalization of the panel frames?


    The DC circuits are essentially insulated from earth (excluding solutions where one pole has an operational earthing) and must not come into direct contact with the PEN / N conductors. However, as for my recommendation, it results from the order of the magnitude of the probability. Quite simply, a situation where the chassis grounding increases the risk is unlikely, and I have only mentioned this to highlight the nature of the DC circuit fault loop (which does not normally close via ground). On the other hand, the risk of damaging the panels due to overvoltages caused by direct or indirect effects of lightning is already important (and the correct earthing of the panels is an element of the protection system). Therefore, balancing these risks, I recommend (correct) grounding the panels, even if theoretically it increases the risk of DC electric shock.
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  • #32 19399672
    jurek.parus
    Level 18  
    I'll stick to the topic
    Does it make sense to connect the panels / trapezoidal bridges with an additional grounding cable within one row of panels - after all, they are connected via clamps !?
    Maybe for the blackened frames it makes sense (or the use of clamps with vampires), but for aluminum ones? After all, they are not anodized.
  • #33 19399892
    marekkeram1
    Level 11  
    The aluminum ones are also anodized, but it is enough to use grounding plates for less than PLN 1. and we already have a grounded module.
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  • #34 19402747
    Darkdarkman
    Level 30  
    I will also add my 3 cents because I have been curious about this issue for some time.

    IMVHO PV on the roof should only occur with lightning protection and the use of insulation spacing. Alternatively, without spacing but with brackets connected to the competition.

    Other solutions are asking for trouble. Why

    Imagine a tin roof with PV and an equalization connection to MSW or GSW. Even if the contractor went crazy and laid 16mm² Cu this is still almost 4 times smaller than for 8mm diameter lightning protection wire. But who puts 16mm², who has an MSW in the attic connected to the GSW with such a wire, who has a foundation ground? The result is that it goes languidly 2.5mm² or 4 if it goes well to the switchgear together with the wires from the inverter. Lightning strikes the roof and all the lightning current tries to travel this route by vaporizing this equalization connection. And it doesn't matter if it's 2.5mm² or 16mm².
    This is what the consequences of a discharge into the roof will be.

    As for servicing - anyone do it without additional grounding of the whole thing?
  • #35 19403430
    emigrant
    Level 29  
    8 mm equals 50 m?. A copper conductor with a cross section of 16 mm? will not evaporate. As far as I remember, it will heat up to 300 degrees with a surge current of 100 kA. Such tests were done by the late prof. Owl in the Białystok LWN. Look for the Sowa table - there are types of material, cross-sections and temperatures to which the conductor was heated at different impulse currents with the wave shape of 10/350 us.

    It is a fact, every installation on the roof should be protected with a lightning protection system. We do not eliminate, but certainly reduce the risk of a direct earth discharge in the PV installation. Perhaps we also avoid fire in PV installations and roof. It is a pity that there is no obligation in the construction law to install lightning protection systems in newly constructed single-family houses. So far, it is voluntary.
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  • #36 19403686
    Darkdarkman
    Level 30  
    Professor Sowa's publications I followed with great pleasure.
    His death is an irreparable loss to Polish science.
    Returning ad rem - out of professional curiosity I always look at PV installations if the opportunity arises.

    Home with a usable attic, tile roofing. 5 with a KWp piece on top, no lightning protection. Surprisingly with foundation grounding (natural because natural, but always). From the roof to the inverter 2x H1Z2Z2-K 6mm² + ¿/z H07 V-K 6mm. These wires enter the AC/DC switchgear in the attic above the attic , the inverter is also located there. A 5x2.5mm² YKYżo was routed to the main protection.
    For me, this is a dud. This YKY does the lightning protection for the whole house.

    What about the obligation of lightning protection - first start enforcing the obligation to equip houses with a foundation grounding, then enforce the ZE to allow the principles of selectivity of protection (because what protection in the switchgear in the building is selective to S303 C25?), and only then should sit down to lightning protection....
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  • #37 19443273
    Posada1993
    Level 2  
    Hello Experts,
    What is your opinion on the grounding of the PV installation if the insulation gap between the lightning protection and the photovoltaic installation is not maintained?
    We make an equalizing connection on the roof. The GSU from the PV is grounded to a dedicated vertical PV ground. Do we make equipotential bonding between the vertical PV earthing and the lightning protection system?
  • #38 19443360
    Tomkii
    Level 15  
    Darkdarkman wrote:

    As for the lightning protection obligation - first, the obligation to equip houses with a foundation earth electrode should be enforced, then the power supply should be enforced to enable the application of the protection selectivity principles (because what protection in the switchgear in the building is selective in relation to S303 C25?), And only then should the lightning protection be used. ..

    Enea has already learned. They provide Etimat T (tariff limiter, i.e. S-kęka without short-circuit module). Another thing is that then you have to back up the surge arrester at home, because if it works, it will crash the fusible BMy in the connector.
  • #39 19443421
    KonradGatek
    Level 29  
    Posada1993 wrote:
    Hello Experts,

    I studied photovoltaNikie at the University of Fejsbuku and there the lecturers tell me to do this or vice versa.
    Posada1993 wrote:
    what is your opinion

    Opinion of my lecturers of panels level dach:
    PV Installation Grounding on Steel Roof Tiles: Contractor Advice, TN-S System & Regulations
    PV Installation Grounding on Steel Roof Tiles: Contractor Advice, TN-S System & Regulations
  • #40 19464635
    Aanniiaa
    Level 8  
    Good morning. I do not want to start a new topic is a related topic.

    Planned development of a PV installation on a roof made of steel tiles. Cable connection. Network layout inside the TN-C building. The old building is not earthed.

    I have a few questions
    1. The main switchboard of the building on the ground floor of TN-C. The inverter and security are planned to be in the attic. Is it enough to make TN-S in a PV switchgear in a given situation? (Then the whole circuit will be TN-CS). Planned grounding.

    2. Since the roof is conductive (metal tiles), it is obligatory to make vertical connections and connect to the ground. Since the roof is conductive, it can be used as an active lightning protection system or do you need to install lightning protection systems?
  • #41 20180472
    hejdasz1
    Level 2  
    All those who so eagerly recommend covering the frames of photovoltaic modules with equalizing connections are missing one, quite important detail that should, in principle, close this discussion. I paste the nameplate of a typical PV module - what interesting information do we have there?
    PV Installation Grounding on Steel Roof Tiles: Contractor Advice, TN-S System & Regulations
  • #42 20180494
    3301
    Level 34  
    Is the 2nd class of insulation?
    Nevertheless equipotential bonding required
  • #43 20180570
    hejdasz1
    Level 2  
    3301 wrote:
    Is the 2nd class of insulation?
    Nevertheless, equipotential bonding is needed


    Why might I ask?
  • #44 20181757
    LordZiemniak
    Level 15  
    Because it is equipotential bonding, not grounding :) Seemingly the same but not the same, you show the sticker, and now see the edge of the frame where the manufacturer prepares special holes and markings for equipotential bonding ;)
  • #45 20181979
    KonradGatek
    Level 29  
    Aanniiaa wrote:
    I have a few questions
    1. The main switchboard of the building on the ground floor of TN-C. The inverter and security are planned to be in the attic. Is it enough to make TN-S in a PV switchgear in a given situation? (Then the whole circuit will be a TN-CS chip). Planned grounding.
    2. Since the roof is conductive (metal tiles), it is obligatory to make vertical connections and connect it to the ground. Since the roof is conductive, it can be used as an active lightning protection system, or do you need to install lightning protection systems?

    The designer answers these questions. It is supported by knowledge, experience and standards. When handling the claim, the insurer will do everything possible to avoid it.
    Where do you think the "performance obligations" arise from? Or maybe it's just an electrician cheating on money?
    What is this active lightning ?
    The shoemakers really are the elite of the nation. Hence these repeated "performance obligations".
    ..............................
    Moderated By Krzysztof Reszka:

    3.1.11. Don't post messages that add nothing to the discussion.

  • #46 20432557
    Amir88
    Level 4  
    Hello, off-grid installation with a power of 2800 W, placed on a shed attached to the garage, when you touch the roofing sheet, you can feel a slight tingling of electricity, the installation works, why is this happening??? Currently, there is no grounding, which will be installed, should you check the connecting wires??
  • #47 20432625
    michalPV
    Level 29  
    Amir88 wrote:
    when touching the roofing sheet, you can feel a slight tingling of electricity, the installation is working, why is this happening??? Currently no grounding

    Is it just me or have you already figured out why this is happening?

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the grounding requirements for photovoltaic (PV) installations on roofs covered with steel tiles, particularly in buildings utilizing the TN-S electrical system without a lightning protection system. The contractor's assertion that additional grounding for the panels and structures is unnecessary is challenged by several participants who emphasize the importance of grounding to prevent electric shock risks, especially in the event of insulation failure. Various standards (PN-EN 62305 series, PN-HD 60364-7-712) are cited, indicating that equipotential bonding is crucial for safety. The conversation also touches on the potential dangers of DC voltage in relation to grounding and the necessity of lightning protection systems for such installations. Ultimately, while some participants argue that current regulations do not mandate grounding in the absence of a lightning protection system, others advocate for proactive measures to mitigate risks associated with electrical faults.
Summary generated by the language model.
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